Hughton and Nottingham Forest

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

Apart from he came on for Barnsley didn’t he 😂 If he didn’t I’ve made myself look a right ****. Helluva move either way, fair play to him. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

4 hours ago, king canary said:

8 goals in their last 13 Championship games under him.

Same old Hughton

I know where you’re coming from but it’s not strictly same old. He blew the Championship title with Brighton but still took them up and blew the 100 point barrier with Newcastle, scoring 90 goals. 

His championship record is relatively solid. Forest might just be sh@t. It certainly didn’t work here and perhaps that elite level is beyond him. Yet “the Royal we” thought he had bought well here when it all went wrong. There was talk of Europe😐, I thought we’d taken the next step! 

Let’s be honest though, we all thought the RVW, Hooper, Fer buys were excellent at the time. I hear so many people still stating that the Wolf would have thrived under another coach but the truth is that we got mugged. He’s been a nothing striker even when out on loan from us and subsequently. He wasn’t up to it. If he was Hughton’s choice then fair enough, it’s at his door. But the suggestion he’d have been the “one” under another coach is nonsense. He just wasn’t very good.

Hooper another. Better than RVW in terms of return but we overpaid. Again, if that was Hoots fault, it was a waste.

The one that maybe could have worked was Fer. When we played “better” he tended to be involved. But he ended up in the Championship before heading back to Holland.

Hughton kept us up and might have done (admittedly unlikely) again. Sacking him for a Radio pundit didn’t.

Ultimately, he/we spent poorly. He isn’t a terrible manager though, as his time at Newcastle and Brighton have shown.

I suspect Forest are actually crap. They will probably win the league now😂

The telling thing, I think, is that back then there was a consensus to get Hughton out. At the same time we were pining for Lambert. At the time there were very few points between them; Hughton here and Lambert at Villa.

Who has done better since? Maybe it’s pretty even. For all Lambert did here, we wouldn’t want either. The thought we could have better than Lambert was almost unthinkable not that long ago. When our own fans were giving it “you don’t know what you’re doing” to Farke at Portman Road?

I suppose what I’m saying is that managers are just like players. It works sometimes and often it doesn’t. For every Huckerby is an Andy Townsend. One wants to stay here forever, the other can’t wait to leave. 

Hughton takes plenty of stick and made mistakes but he was way better than the likes of Hamilton, Grant, Megson etc

At 62 he might not fancy another go. If he does, I doubt he’ll be out of work for long. 

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

11 hours ago, king canary said:

8 goals in their last 13 Championship games under him.

Same old Hughton

How does that stack up against Farke in The Premier ?  😜

[Ward 3 372]

And he has been sacked

[Jim Smith 2,317]

Must say I feel a bit sorry for Hughton. He’s a good guy and a competent technical coach. He just now has this (not undeserved) rep for sucking the life out of his sides that is going to follow him wherever he goes now. 

[BroadstairsR 2,167]

16 minutes ago, Ward 3 said:

And he has been sacked

He's being lined up as the next ITFC manager as we type.

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

Forest would be a good job for Wilder.

 

[Aggy 755]

8 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I know where you’re coming from but it’s not strictly same old. He blew the Championship title with Brighton but still took them up and blew the 100 point barrier with Newcastle, scoring 90 goals. 

His championship record is relatively solid. Forest might just be sh@t. It certainly didn’t work here and perhaps that elite level is beyond him. Yet “the Royal we” thought he had bought well here when it all went wrong. There was talk of Europe😐, I thought we’d taken the next step! 

Ultimately, he/we spent poorly. He isn’t a terrible manager though, as his time at Newcastle and Brighton have shown.

I suspect Forest are actually crap. They will probably win the league now😂

 

 

The point I was trying to make in my last post was that Hughton’s niche IMO is getting an underachieving squad/players  to their level. But what he doesn’t do so well is then push on, and what he has never done is completely overhaul a club that needed a complete overhaul.

Newcastle probably should never have gone down (4 managers across 5 spells the year they did) and he got them back up, Brighton had finished in the playoffs two years in a row and he got them up, we’d finished 12th before he took us to 11th, Birmingham had just come down (and won the league cup the year before) and he got them to the playoffs. He’s always inherited slightly underachieving but good squads, taken them to where they probably should be, and then failed to push on.

You can push recruitment blame elsewhere but where has he ever really overhauled a side, stamped “his way” on the club, developed the squad and got them higher than they “should” have been when he took over? Hughton’s pragmatic style/tactics doesn’t really lend itself to that, but does get underachieving players to a level.

Forest aren’t a good side. They probably shouldnt be as bad as they’ve been this season, but they needed (and now need) a complete overhaul. They need a 3-5year project. Stay up this year, get rid of the deadwood, consolidate next year, and then a year or two later start pushing to go up.

For that you’re thinking Lambert with us, Farke, Eddie Howe, the Cowleys at Lincoln. You’re not thinking Hughton.

Edit: but agree, if he wants another job, there will be plenty for him - just most likely at clubs with good squads who are underachieving rather than sides who need a lot of work.

Edited September 16, 2021 by Aggy

[canarydan23 4,060]

My Forest-supporting mate reckons Steve Cooper will be announced shortly.

[crab man 164]

Hughton's interviews whilst here were some of the most dull I've had to endure, constantly playing down our chances and over hyping the opposition. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

21 minutes ago, Aggy said:

The point I was trying to make in my last post was that Hughton’s niche IMO is getting an underachieving squad/players  to their level. But what he doesn’t do so well is then push on, and what he has never done is completely overhaul a club that needed a complete overhaul.

Newcastle probably should never have gone down (4 managers across 5 spells the year they did) and he got them back up, Brighton had finished in the playoffs two years in a row and he got them up, we’d finished 12th before he took us to 11th, Birmingham had just come down (and won the league cup the year before) and he got them to the playoffs. He’s always inherited slightly underachieving but good squads, taken them to where they probably should be, and then failed to push on.

You can push recruitment blame elsewhere but where has he ever really overhauled a side, stamped “his way” on the club, developed the squad and got them higher than they “should” have been when he took over? Hughton’s pragmatic style/tactics doesn’t really lend itself to that, but does get underachieving players to a level.

Forest aren’t a good side. They probably shouldnt be as bad as they’ve been this season, but they needed (and now need) a complete overhaul. They need a 3-5year project. Stay up this year, get rid of the deadwood, consolidate next year, and then a year or two later start pushing to go up.

For that you’re thinking Lambert with us, Farke, Eddie Howe, the Cowleys at Lincoln. You’re not thinking Hughton.

Edit: but agree, if he wants another job, there will be plenty for him - just most likely at clubs with good squads who are underachieving rather than sides who need a lot of work.

Allardyce is also good at the bit in bold. He's never needed to buy a pint of wine in Bolton for years.

[Drazen Muzinic 1,445]

14 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Houghton Out..... 

I KNEW we never spelled his name correctly on the Pinkun...

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I think he sets up teams not to concede or lose. And with a bit of talent, that can get you promoted. 

But he hasn't got much talent at Forest and I'm afraid this time he has failed miserably.

Shame. As a person, I met him at CR and he seemed a really nice bloke, a good ambassador for any club off the pitch.

[Drazen Muzinic 1,445]

9 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think he sets up teams not to concede or lose. And with a bit of talent, that can get you promoted. 

But he hasn't got much talent at Forest and I'm afraid this time he has failed miserably.

Shame. As a person, I met him at CR and he seemed a really nice bloke, a good ambassador for any club off the pitch.

Agree with this - it worked so well for Arsenal for years. In 71 and, even moreso with George Graham. I think he was the originator of the quote about starting with a point before you even set foot on the pitch.

[C.I.D 302]

3 hours ago, BroadstairsR said:

He's being lined up as the next ITFC manager as we type.

ROFL - well,they do need a defensive coach without any doubt 😄

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

Bookies have just slashed the odds on John Terry being appointed, 16/1 down to 4/1.

 

[king canary 7,606]

10 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

I know where you’re coming from but it’s not strictly same old. He blew the Championship title with Brighton but still took them up and blew the 100 point barrier with Newcastle, scoring 90 goals. 

His championship record is relatively solid. Forest might just be sh@t. It certainly didn’t work here and perhaps that elite level is beyond him. Yet “the Royal we” thought he had bought well here when it all went wrong. There was talk of Europe😐, I thought we’d taken the next step! 

Let’s be honest though, we all thought the RVW, Hooper, Fer buys were excellent at the time. I hear so many people still stating that the Wolf would have thrived under another coach but the truth is that we got mugged. He’s been a nothing striker even when out on loan from us and subsequently. He wasn’t up to it. If he was Hughton’s choice then fair enough, it’s at his door. But the suggestion he’d have been the “one” under another coach is nonsense. He just wasn’t very good.

Hooper another. Better than RVW in terms of return but we overpaid. Again, if that was Hoots fault, it was a waste.

The one that maybe could have worked was Fer. When we played “better” he tended to be involved. But he ended up in the Championship before heading back to Holland.

Hughton kept us up and might have done (admittedly unlikely) again. Sacking him for a Radio pundit didn’t.

Ultimately, he/we spent poorly. He isn’t a terrible manager though, as his time at Newcastle and Brighton have shown.

I suspect Forest are actually crap. They will probably win the league now😂

The telling thing, I think, is that back then there was a consensus to get Hughton out. At the same time we were pining for Lambert. At the time there were very few points between them; Hughton here and Lambert at Villa.

Who has done better since? Maybe it’s pretty even. For all Lambert did here, we wouldn’t want either. The thought we could have better than Lambert was almost unthinkable not that long ago. When our own fans were giving it “you don’t know what you’re doing” to Farke at Portman Road?

I suppose what I’m saying is that managers are just like players. It works sometimes and often it doesn’t. For every Huckerby is an Andy Townsend. One wants to stay here forever, the other can’t wait to leave. 

Hughton takes plenty of stick and made mistakes but he was way better than the likes of Hamilton, Grant, Megson etc

At 62 he might not fancy another go. If he does, I doubt he’ll be out of work for long. 

 

When I say 'same old' I mean in the way his managerial reigns end up- when things go against him his natural instinct is to retreat further and further into negativity until you're basically playing a 0-0 draw at home every week. It happened with us, happened with Brighton and now with Forest- only difference with Forest is it happened a lot quicker. 

With regards to the signings made here- it is a bit chicken/egg- did the signings not help him or did he not help the signings. I'm not one who believe RVW would have been good enough under another manager, his lack of physicality would have cost him whoever was in charge. But Hughton held a masterclass in how not to use him, similarly with Hooper. 

I agree he wasn't as bad as Grant (I wasn't going regularly during the Megson/Hamilton years so can't comment on that) but football was a chore under Hughton. 

[lake district canary 4,531]

It's always been the same with Hughton, sets up a team to be well organised and able to defend and relies on his front men to be good enough to do the rest. He had that at Newcastle and Brighton, but he didn't have that with us, because the combination of front men we had were not good enough (once Holt left). 

At Forest he was relying on Grabban as being one of the main men and captain. Nuff said.

[sgncfc 1,228]

Hughton shouldn't be a manager, he should be a defence coach as a part of a coaching structure working under a more rounded manager. He is yet another classic case of an ex-player who is very limited and cannot ever see a bigger picture, employed by despertae owners who know nothing. I couldn't ever forgive him for almost destroying my love of football while Norwich manager.

[Ward 3 372]

Bring him back. Sort out our defence.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes this is a pi55take