Emi Buendia - Transfer details

[Greavsy 2,415]

I predict that within 2 years Emi will be throwing his toys out of the pram at Villa and be looking for a move elsewhere. 

 

[kirku 1,332]

1 minute ago, king canary said:

Probably.

This discussion has been done to death but Palace not letting Zaha go despite transfer requests didn't seem to put Eze or Olise or similar signing for them. So I can't see why it would destroy our chances of signing anyone. 

It makes us a significantly less attractive option, that's for sure. The more moves our players get, the more the sales pitch to potential signings improves. 

Zaha isn't a great analogy, being a Palace youth player who got his big move to Utd but failed and came back - not to mention their ability to pay significantly higher wages than us.

I'd wager that if Zaha really wanted a move, he'd have got one. Perhaps his reported £130,000 a week wages have softened the blow of not going to Arsenal?

[The Bunny 309]

Except it wasn’t even good business. We sold him on the cheap. This is a player with a career on an upward rise, who just broke into the Argentina national team. 35m was chicken feed.

There is a reason other clubs don’t sell their best players upon getting promoted to the premier league. And it’s not because  Stewart Webber is a genius and it’s never occurred to anyone else.

We’re down two vital players in Emi and Skipp, and it’s far from clear that the replacements are as effective. The evidence on the pitch (total lack of fight, zero goals, inability to defend) suggests not.

[Badger 2,405]

6 minutes ago, king canary said:

Probably.

This discussion has been done to death but Palace not letting Zaha go despite transfer requests didn't seem to put Eze or Olise or similar signing for them. So I can't see why it would destroy our chances of signing anyone. 

You mean the transfer careers of Zaha, who grew up in Croydon, Olise who was born in Hammersmith (West London) and Gabriel Eze, born just down the road in Greenwich (South London) are directly equivalent and a good guide for the transfers of Buendia, born in Argentine and Tzolis, born in Greece?

Can you see the weakness in this comparison?

[kirku 1,332]

4 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Except it wasn’t even good business. We sold him on the cheap. This is a player with a career on an upward rise, who just broke into the Argentina national team. 35m was chicken feed.

There is a reason other clubs don’t sell their best players upon getting promoted to the premier league. And it’s not because  Stewart Webber is a genius and it’s never occurred to anyone else.

We’re down two vital players in Emi and Skipp, and it’s far from clear that the replacements are as effective. The evidence on the pitch (total lack of fight, zero goals, inability to defend) suggests not.

This doesn't really stand up to much scrutiny - Tammy Abraham just moved for less than we got for Emi.

Hell, so did Varane..

[Paint Me Yellow 200]

Coming up next on todays edition of "It's Old News, Now Move The Fark On": A time-line of the original moon landing.

Edited August 23, 2021 by Paint Me Yellow

[king canary 7,606]

Just now, kirku said:

It makes us a significantly less attractive option, that's for sure. The more moves our players get, the more the sales pitch to potential signings improves. 

 

That isn't 'for sure' it is your opinion.

1 minute ago, kirku said:

Zaha isn't a great analogy, being a Palace youth player who got his big move to Utd but failed and came back - not to mention their ability to pay significantly higher wages than us.

 

He's a great analogy- a player wanted by bigger teams who'd seemingly outgrown the club and tried to force a move through. The rest of your sentence is irrelevant to the larger point of 'does refusing to sell your top player puts off new signings. 

 

1 minute ago, kirku said:

I'd wager that if Zaha really wanted a move, he'd have got one. Perhaps his reported £130,000 a week wages have softened the blow of not going to Arsenal?

He handed in a transfer request- I think that suggests he really wanted a move.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/07/crystal-palace-tell-everton-they-will-not-sell-wilfried-zaha-for-less-than-100m

 

[AJ 1,221]

22 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

This line gets repeated a lot on here. It doesn’t make it true. You only have to look at Harry Kane for evidence of this. And if you read that article, it’s pretty clear there was no effort to keep him. It’s hardly like the club we’re desperately trying to persuade him to stay. He went to Villa, ffs. 

Err, yes it does. Norwich would hardly have forced Emi out of the door, and Farke would have absolutely wanted to keep him. At the end of the day, it's the player that has the most power in situations like this and Emi wanted to move, so much so it was done whilst he was away with Argentina - there's little the club could have done in that situation, if he wanted the higher wages Norwich simply wouldn't have been able to match them. Emi could have said no and stayed here. He left and didn't, he wanted to go to Villa.

[king canary 7,606]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

You mean the transfer careers of Zaha, who grew up in Croydon, Olise who was born in Hammersmith (West London) and Gabriel Eze, born just down the road in Greenwich (South London) are directly equivalent and a good guide for the transfers of Buendia, born in Argentine and Tzolis, born in Greece?

Can you see the weakness in this comparison?

Again, its totally irrelevant where anybody grew up to the wider point.

The fact is, refusing to sell their best player did not put off potential new signings from joining. I'm not comparing keeping Zaha to keeping Emi- I just think the idea that if we refused to sell Emi it would have put off potential targets doesn't stack up with reality.

By your logic if we refused to sell Cantwell then new targets wouldn't care as he's local? That doesn't make a lick of sense.

 

Edited August 23, 2021 by king canary

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

11 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Except it wasn’t even good business. We sold him on the cheap. This is a player with a career on an upward rise, who just broke into the Argentina national team. 35m was chicken feed.

There is a reason other clubs don’t sell their best players upon getting promoted to the premier league. And it’s not because  Stewart Webber is a genius and it’s never occurred to anyone else.

We’re down two vital players in Emi and Skipp, and it’s far from clear that the replacements are as effective. The evidence on the pitch (total lack of fight, zero goals, inability to defend) suggests not.

Nope. The market determines the price. A top-six club didn't want him otherwise they would have bid. Atletico were rumoured to want him. Everyone knew he was available pretty much from the time we went down. Those higher bids never came.

Anyone who parrots the "but we sold Emi cheap" line either doesn't understand economics, is letting green and yellow spectacles influence their judgement of the player (the most likely conclusion by a very long way), or - in a very limited number of cases is full of ****.

[Nuff Said 5,141]

16 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Nope. The market determines the price. A top-six club didn't want him otherwise they would have bid. Atletico were rumoured to want him. Everyone knew he was available pretty much from the time we went down. Those higher bids never came.

Anyone who parrots the "but we sold Emi cheap" line either doesn't understand economics, is letting green and yellow spectacles influence their judgement of the player (the most likely conclusion by a very long way), or - in a very limited number of cases is full of ****.

Personally I would question the use of the word limited in your post. The number of times we still see posters saying “.. and Emi was sold too cheap” is embarrassing.

[Badger 2,405]

23 minutes ago, king canary said:

29 minutes ago, Badger said:

You mean the transfer careers of Zaha, who grew up in Croydon, Olise who was born in Hammersmith (West London) and Gabriel Eze, born just down the road in Greenwich (South London) are directly equivalent and a good guide for the transfers of Buendia, born in Argentine and Tzolis, born in Greece?

Can you see the weakness in this comparison?

Again, its totally irrelevant where anybody grew up to the wider point.

So you think that it is equally easy to recruit someone

1. Born thousands of miles away, who probably would not be able to tell you where Norwich is on the map and who knows nobody there at all - with someone

2. Who was brought up a few miles away, may have grown up supporting the club  and has friends and family in the area? 

[A Load of Squit 5,164]

42 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

Except it wasn’t even good business. We sold him on the cheap. This is a player with a career on an upward rise, who just broke into the Argentina national team. 35m was chicken feed.

There is a reason other clubs don’t sell their best players upon getting promoted to the premier league. And it’s not because  Stewart Webber is a genius and it’s never occurred to anyone else.

We’re down two vital players in Emi and Skipp, and it’s far from clear that the replacements are as effective. The evidence on the pitch (total lack of fight, zero goals, inability to defend) suggests not.

He was called up for a training squad, he never made the team.

 

[Badger 2,405]

46 minutes ago, The Bunny said:

We sold him on the cheap. This is a player with a career on an upward rise, who just broke into the Argentina national team. 35m was chicken feed.

Makes you wonder why no other team in the whole of Europe was prepared to match Villa's offer if it was such a bargain?

Either all these football professionals are stupid, or your judgement is wrong? 🤔

[kirku 1,332]

41 minutes ago, king canary said:

That isn't 'for sure' it is your opinion.

He's a great analogy- a player wanted by bigger teams who'd seemingly outgrown the club and tried to force a move through. The rest of your sentence is irrelevant to the larger point of 'does refusing to sell your top player puts off new signings. 

 

He handed in a transfer request- I think that suggests he really wanted a move.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/aug/07/crystal-palace-tell-everton-they-will-not-sell-wilfried-zaha-for-less-than-100m

 

It's not just basic logic, Webber and others have spoken about it at length.

A club like ours, especially over the last few years, has to make a compelling pitch to younger players. That pitch is damaged if we're seen as standing in the way of bigger moves. Palace don't operate on that model..

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

26 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Personally I would question the use of the word limited in your post. The number of times we still see posters saying “.. and Emi was sold too cheap” is embarrassing.

I'm inclined in many cases it's just green and yellow spectacles getting in the way, but all perception really, innit?

[The Bunny 309]

22 minutes ago, Badger said:

Makes you wonder why no other team in the whole of Europe was prepared to match Villa's offer if it was such a bargain?

Either all these football professionals are stupid, or your judgement is wrong? 🤔

Well, if you read the article you’ll see that Arsenal intended to improve their offer, but we wanted to get the deal done quickly so they didn’t get a chance. This has been reported elsewhere too.

But my point was mostly about future value. If he has another good season in the prem, becomes a regular for Argentina, his value will continue to increase massively, possibly to double what we got for him. Selling him now seems short sighted.

If we’re talking current value, 35m doesn’t even cover his value to us (in actually giving us a fighting chance of staying up).

[king canary 7,606]

50 minutes ago, Badger said:

So you think that it is equally easy to recruit someone

1. Born thousands of miles away, who probably would not be able to tell you where Norwich is on the map and who knows nobody there at all - with someone

2. Who was brought up a few miles away, may have grown up supporting the club  and has friends and family in the area? 

We're going to struggle to have a decent conversation if you choose to make up things I've never said so kindly pack it in.

No I don't think it is equally easy because, shockingly enough, I'm not a moron.

I'm just going to lay my point out as clearly and simply as possible so you can't try and claim I'm saying something I'm not.

I don't believe that, in this hypothetical situation, if we'd chosen not to sell Emi that a Tzolis or similar would have decided not to sign for us due to us not selling him. The main attraction for a player like him is playing in the Premier League. That isn't changed by whether or not our best attacker is kicking up a fuss because we won't sell him to Villa. Hence the Zaha/Eze/Olise comparison- those players joined Palace knowing that they dug their heels in and didn't let Zaha leave when bigger clubs came knocking. I personally believe Tzolis, Sargent or whoever would have done similar with us, whether they were born in Greece or in Kings Lynn. 

Edited August 23, 2021 by king canary

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Or if he breaks his leg, he's worthless. Not to mention he was in the Norwich team that got relegated last time out. Fact is, if a team wanted him, they could easily have made a push during the whole time in the Championship as it was well-known to one and all that he was too good for that league. Future value is only by definition hypothetical, it's not entirely clear until realised.

We've collared more parachute payments if we go down again, not to mention a decent chunk of TV money, off the back of a £1.5 million signing (and a sell-on clause that was bought out). Probably made £30m just on the sale alone, and that's before the sell-on clause comes in. Marvellous improvement to our financial situation.

If he does continue to develop where the likes of Real Madrid chuck in a £70m+ bid, hello 15% sell-on clause. Hence the excitement amongst some of us with the Maddison rumours flying around - as it meant another potential cash windfall.

[Nuff Said 5,141]

2 hours ago, TheGunnShow said:

I'm inclined in many cases it's just green and yellow spectacles getting in the way, but all perception really, innit?

One man's yellow and green spectacles is another man's "any stick to beat the club with". AKA haters gonna hate.

[Bradwell canary 109]

5 hours ago, Badger said:

Makes you wonder why no other team in the whole of Europe was prepared to match Villa's offer if it was such a bargain?

Either all these football professionals are stupid, or your judgement is wrong? 🤔

I totally agree, we did sell him far too cheaply.

Fact is he was sold too soon after the window opened. Had we have waited, giving the money now being paid for older for less talented players.

He will out grow Villa in two seasons. Arsenal for one will be kicking themselves after being out bid by Villa.

 

[BigFish 1,987]

Are talking about Emi "no goals, no assists, two substituitions" Buendia?

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

14 minutes ago, Bradwell canary said:

I totally agree, we did sell him far too cheaply.

Fact is he was sold too soon after the window opened. Had we have waited, giving the money now being paid for older for less talented players.

He will out grow Villa in two seasons. Arsenal for one will be kicking themselves after being out bid by Villa.

 

Then, hello 15% sell-on clause. Of what will probably be a figure north of £40 million.

[Capt. Pants 4,234]

I do wonder if we were quick to move on Emi as we had targets like Billing and Ayer who we thought could be bought with the money. Unfortunately they proved to be a bit more expensive and/or didn't want to come here.

Rashica must have been lined up as well. 

Emi was always going to go so quibbling over a million here and there makes eff all difference really.

[Greavsy 2,415]

21 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Are talking about Emi "no goals, no assists, two substituitions" Buendia?

You'd struggle getting that on the back of a shirt!

[corbs 147]

I’ve a long term infantile fantasy. That one day a brilliant young player for us, hugely in demand, will just reject all offers and stay, insisting on being paid the average wage of the first team squad member. 

[Greavsy 2,415]

2 minutes ago, corbs said:

I’ve a long term infantile fantasy. That one day a brilliant young player for us, hugely in demand, will just reject all offers and stay, insisting on being paid the average wage of the first team squad member. 

Too much Roy of the Rovers as a child methinks 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,047]

19 hours ago, Badger said:

Makes you wonder why no other team in the whole of Europe was prepared to match Villa's offer if it was such a bargain?

Either all these football professionals are stupid, or your judgement is wrong? 🤔

Good point. Ultimately, only two mid table teams wanted him.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

20 hours ago, Greavsy said:

I predict that within 2 years Emi will be throwing his toys out of the pram at Villa and be looking for a move elsewhere. 

 

I'd be surprised if he's still there this time next year. If he's as good as we think he is then Villa is just a stepping stone. 

Although he's a brilliant player (I think the best ever Norwich player) it would seem he's a difficult person to deal with if he doesn't get his way. 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

I do wonder if we were quick to move on Emi as we had targets like Billing and Ayer who we thought could be bought with the money. Unfortunately they proved to be a bit more expensive and/or didn't want to come here.

Rashica must have been lined up as well. 

Emi was always going to go so quibbling over a million here and there makes eff all difference really.

Yep, totally agree with that. Especially as they may not have known we were flogging Buendia so couldn't haggle the price upward on that account (but in the end other clubs came in, so they got the bidding war they wanted).