Farke Must Step Up

[Big Vince 413]

Based on what we saw yesterday, Farke has not learnt any of the lessons of two years' ago.

This is not just about players, but his identity as a coach and the tactics he uses. He needs to be far more fluid tactically and have a game plan for each fixture. If Webber and Farke are going to insist "we are Norwich and we are going to stick to our identity" then they are going to be relegated because that is far too predictable. It is why pundits were saying two years' ago that Norwich were the best team to be bottom of the league. Norwich need to realise this is the EPL now. Not only are they mixing it with the best players but also the best coaches and backroom teams in the world. For me, Farke is not an EPL coach, unless he can prove otherwise. The tactical issues are as follows:

1. You cannot have the full-backs bombing forward because Norwich do not have the quality to make this work, but more importantly they will get turned over on the break and the centre-backs will be drawn out of position leaving big holes at the back. Norwich were doing this in the Championship under Alex Neil - so no lessons learnt from a lower level years' ago even.

2. The full-backs need to work in a defensive unit of four and do their jobs cutting out/blocking crosses. The boy Williams is good at doing this so they need to get him in.

3. It is no good playing out from the back all the time as it will not beat the opposition press and as soon as possession is lost it only takes two passes and the ball is in the back of the net.

4. Zonal marking: space never scored a goal, but plenty of players will at this level. Norwich need to change to man-marking with every player having a job to do.

5. Stopping the opposition: for clubs like Norwich to survive at this level you have to adopt a negative strategy because you cannot compete on quality. Therefore, every fixture first and foremost must be about stopping this or that player; then see what you can exploit. What Worthy used to call earning the right to play. Probably will not go down well with fans, but forget about them, they are numpties gagging to go back to the Championship anyway.

6. Pukki can only score one type of goal running off the last defender. Every opposition coach will know this from two years' ago and so Norwich need to find other ways to score like heading in or having a clever set-piece routine or creating box in the fox chances.

Once again Norwich look like going into this season with no EPL signings so that will clearly hinder the implementation of any of the above. Also, why are they signing relegated players? Are these the only type they can get? Perhaps the players concerned took a look at the CVs of the Canary board members and thought well this is the club for me. Hardly the best motivation.

 

[Midlands Yellow 4,672]

1 minute ago, Big Vince said:

Based on what we saw yesterday, Farke has not learnt any of the lessons of two years' ago.

This is not just about players, but his identity as a coach and the tactics he uses. He needs to be far more fluid tactically and have a game plan for each fixture. If Webber and Farke are going to insist "we are Norwich and we are going to stick to our identity" then they are going to be relegated because that is far too predictable. It is why pundits were saying two years' ago that Norwich were the best team to be bottom of the league. Norwich need to realise this is the EPL now. Not only are they mixing it with the best players but also the best coaches and backroom teams in the world. For me, Farke is not an EPL coach, unless he can prove otherwise. The tactical issues are as follows:

1. You cannot have the full-backs bombing forward because Norwich do not have the quality to make this work, but more importantly they will get turned over on the break and the centre-backs will be drawn out of position leaving big holes at the back. Norwich were doing this in the Championship under Alex Neil - so no lessons learnt from a lower level years' ago even.

2. The full-backs need to work in a defensive unit of four and do their jobs cutting out/blocking crosses. The boy Williams is good at doing this so they need to get him in.

3. It is no good playing out from the back all the time as it will not beat the opposition press and as soon as possession is lost it only takes two passes and the ball is in the back of the net.

4. Zonal marking: space never scored a goal, but plenty of players will at this level. Norwich need to change to man-marking with every player having a job to do.

5. Stopping the opposition: for clubs like Norwich to survive at this level you have to adopt a negative strategy because you cannot compete on quality. Therefore, every fixture first and foremost must be about stopping this or that player; then see what you can exploit. What Worthy used to call earning the right to play. Probably will not go down well with fans, but forget about them, they are numpties gagging to go back to the Championship anyway.

6. Pukki can only score one type of goal running off the last defender. Every opposition coach will know this from two years' ago and so Norwich need to find other ways to score like heading in or having a clever set-piece routine or creating box in the fox chances.

Once again Norwich look like going into this season with no EPL signings so that will clearly hinder the implementation of any of the above. Also, why are they signing relegated players? Are these the only type they can get? Perhaps the players concerned took a look at the CVs of the Canary board members and thought well this is the club for me. Hardly the best motivation.

 

Wise words Vince, I’m guessing you can’t see us finishing top 4? 

[Yellow Green Army 248]

Give Farke a call Big Vince and explain to him his mistakes and where he’s going wrong.

You never know, you may get taken on as part of the coaching staff.

[Bluefloyd 58]

I wonder if Vinnie Jones and John Fashanu are available on a free? 

[Deptford Yellow 287]

Craig Fleming was signed as a relegated player - he turned out to be pretty good….

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,698]

Yawn.

[Mullet 293]

40 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Based on what we saw yesterday, Farke has not learnt any of the lessons of two years' ago.

This is not just about players, but his identity as a coach and the tactics he uses. He needs to be far more fluid tactically and have a game plan for each fixture. If Webber and Farke are going to insist "we are Norwich and we are going to stick to our identity" then they are going to be relegated because that is far too predictable. It is why pundits were saying two years' ago that Norwich were the best team to be bottom of the league. Norwich need to realise this is the EPL now. Not only are they mixing it with the best players but also the best coaches and backroom teams in the world. For me, Farke is not an EPL coach, unless he can prove otherwise. The tactical issues are as follows:

1. You cannot have the full-backs bombing forward because Norwich do not have the quality to make this work, but more importantly they will get turned over on the break and the centre-backs will be drawn out of position leaving big holes at the back. Norwich were doing this in the Championship under Alex Neil - so no lessons learnt from a lower level years' ago even.

2. The full-backs need to work in a defensive unit of four and do their jobs cutting out/blocking crosses. The boy Williams is good at doing this so they need to get him in.

3. It is no good playing out from the back all the time as it will not beat the opposition press and as soon as possession is lost it only takes two passes and the ball is in the back of the net.

4. Zonal marking: space never scored a goal, but plenty of players will at this level. Norwich need to change to man-marking with every player having a job to do.

5. Stopping the opposition: for clubs like Norwich to survive at this level you have to adopt a negative strategy because you cannot compete on quality. Therefore, every fixture first and foremost must be about stopping this or that player; then see what you can exploit. What Worthy used to call earning the right to play. Probably will not go down well with fans, but forget about them, they are numpties gagging to go back to the Championship anyway.

6. Pukki can only score one type of goal running off the last defender. Every opposition coach will know this from two years' ago and so Norwich need to find other ways to score like heading in or having a clever set-piece routine or creating box in the fox chances.

Once again Norwich look like going into this season with no EPL signings so that will clearly hinder the implementation of any of the above. Also, why are they signing relegated players? Are these the only type they can get? Perhaps the players concerned took a look at the CVs of the Canary board members and thought well this is the club for me. Hardly the best motivation.

 

Can't argue. You obviously know your football. Point 3 stands out: did you see Swansea's self inflicted suicide yesterday  

[sonyc 6,143]

You've made some decent points there BV. Lots of fans will underneath be worried on some of those issues. Yet even Worthy didn't keep us up more than one season. In fact it's an uncomfortable fact that many managers have been part of our yo-yo  club.

It's about where we are in the football pyramid currently. It could change and who knows, self-financing might yet be one way of doing it with each cycle helping an upgrade. 

Worries ahead yes, but we will know more when we've competed against teams not in the top 6. Because EVERY other team often struggles against the best quality players bought by the 'plastic" clubs who buy their success. Same in all aspects of life.

You just have to learn to enjoy what you have. And in Daniel Farke, he is one of the best managers we've had in my view. He has stayed to try now and prove himself in the EPL. Not a bad thing is it for him to want to prove? Let's get behind him at least for half a season. And certainly before a ball has even been kicked.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

48 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Based on what we saw yesterday

 

Er…

[horsefly 5,281]

55 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

This is not just about players, but his identity as a coach and the tactics he uses. He needs to be far more fluid tactically and have a game plan for each fixture.

You obviously haven't watched any of the friendlies have you!

[Alex Moss 2,167]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

You obviously haven't watched any of the friendlies have you!

Well according to his first 6 words, and I didn’t bother reading past that, he apparently watched yesterday’s, Horsey 🤥😂

His True Grit account was much better 👍

[NFN FC 1,142]

Let's just become Burnley, job done! 

[horsefly 5,281]

16 minutes ago, Mullet said:

1. You cannot have the full-backs bombing forward because Norwich do not have the quality to make this work, but more importantly they will get turned over on the break and the centre-backs will be drawn out of position leaving big holes at the back. Norwich were doing this in the Championship under Alex Neil - so no lessons learnt from a lower level years' ago even.

The tactic is NOT to have full-backs bombing forward with no one covering those areas. Do you really think Farke is so naive? Neither is Farke so naive that he thinks we can create enough opportunities to win a game by not allowing our speedy full backs to cross the half-way line.

17 minutes ago, Mullet said:

3. It is no good playing out from the back all the time as it will not beat the opposition press and as soon as possession is lost it only takes two passes and the ball is in the back of the net.

So you would rather we hoof the ball forward to Pukki, and you think it won't come straight back at us.

17 minutes ago, Mullet said:

4. Zonal marking: space never scored a goal, but plenty of players will at this level. Norwich need to change to man-marking with every player having a job to do.

There's a reason why every team in the PL uses zonal marking, every statistical analysis shows it is far more effective than man-to-man marking.

17 minutes ago, Mullet said:

5. Stopping the opposition: for clubs like Norwich to survive at this level you have to adopt a negative strategy because you cannot compete on quality. Therefore, every fixture first and foremost must be about stopping this or that player; then see what you can exploit. What Worthy used to call earning the right to play. Probably will not go down well with fans, but forget about them, they are numpties gagging to go back to the Championship anyway.

I can see why you said elsewhere that we won't score any goals this season if you think this is the key to success. If you think Norwich will survive by parking the bus for 90 mins and holding out for nil-nil draws then you must have thought Cris Hughton was a reckless adventurer. Somehow I get the feeling Farke is well aware that we need to be both defensively solid and incisive in attack.

17 minutes ago, Mullet said:

6. Pukki can only score one type of goal running off the last defender. Every opposition coach will know this from two years' ago and so Norwich need to find other ways to score like heading in or having a clever set-piece routine or creating box in the fox chances.

Wasn't it you decrying the purchase of Josh Sargent on another thread? You know, the guy whose last goal for Weder Bremen was an excellent header.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

1 minute ago, NFN FC said:

Let's just become Burnley, job done! 

Believe it or not, that genuinely is the ambition of one poster at least on here. Seriously, can you imagine season after season of that - it’d be like 19/20 every year plus about 3 more wins. Life surely doesn’t get any better than that! 🥳

[Capt. Pants 4,882]

8 minutes ago, NFN FC said:

Let's just become Burnley, job done! 

Not sure if you are jesting or not but Burnley are very similar to ourselves, just a different style of play, making the best of their resources and have survived in the EPL a few years. Perhaps we should become a Villa instead?

BV actually makes some very good points that make uncomfortable reading for some because they dare to challenge and question.

[Felixfan 53]

It’s been said many times that our natural place is 16 - 26 in the hierarchy and without vast resources we have to strive for the top end of that range. 

[hogesar 10,536]

I'm gonna hedge my bets towards Farke knowing what he's doing ahead of BV, strangely enough.

[Dr Greenthumb 786]

I want to know where you got your stream Yesterday?

[Jim Smith 2,540]

Whilst I know the OP has a history of provocative posts there are some valid points there. As much as I am a big fan of Farke snd there was mitigation in the squad he had at his disposal and the injuries I think his own performance last time we were up was one of the biggest disappointments for me (and I am sure him) and I hope and expect us to be much better tactically this time around. We may well have games where we lose despite playing well this season but last tine we were up we were outmanoeuvred on too many occasions by coaches making tactical adjustments during games and is completely failing to respond. 

[lake district canary 4,779]

Daniel will not compromise his style of football and I think most of us appreciate that and are hoping to see more of the same kind of football that we have been playing for the last three years. That it wasn't good enough last time in the PL is clear, but that has been addressed with players like Gibson/Giannoulis coming in to strengthen last season and now the new boys coming in. farke's style works - we just have to do it better and we have a squad that is capable of doing that.

It's called evolution - improving season upon season and we will continue to do that under Farke, each season a development on the one before.

[hogesar 10,536]

13 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

Whilst I know the OP has a history of provocative posts there are some valid points there. As much as I am a big fan of Farke snd there was mitigation in the squad he had at his disposal and the injuries I think his own performance last time we were up was one of the biggest disappointments for me (and I am sure him) and I hope and expect us to be much better tactically this time around. We may well have games where we lose despite playing well this season but last tine we were up we were outmanoeuvred on too many occasions by coaches making tactical adjustments during games and is completely failing to respond. 

The problem is there were plenty of examples people listed two seasons ago of Farke failing to respond yet the evidence was we did respond, our fans were just incapable of seeing a change of shape etc.

[Mr Angry 1,913]

Well, it makes a change for Big Vince to talk about tactics, rather than how everything was so much better under Bob the Builder, and to be fair there are some valid points. However, most PL teams use zonal marking and we don’t have the players to use man to man. Plus, this wasn’t much of a problem last season-although it might be against more physical teams in the PL.

Anyway, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I’m hoping that we can give our opponents more to worry about with our attacking than 2 seasons ago, so we don’t have to become more defensively minded.

[Big Vince 413]

2 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Whilst I know the OP has a history of provocative posts there are some valid points there. As much as I am a big fan of Farke snd there was mitigation in the squad he had at his disposal and the injuries I think his own performance last time we were up was one of the biggest disappointments for me (and I am sure him) and I hope and expect us to be much better tactically this time around. We may well have games where we lose despite playing well this season but last tine we were up we were outmanoeuvred on too many occasions by coaches making tactical adjustments during games and is completely failing to respond. 

Exactly. And the boy Maximin came on yesterday, changed the game and Farke had no response. Other coaches respond in kind to what their opposite numbers have up their sleeve.

[CDMullins 490]

6 hours ago, Big Vince said:

Based on what we saw yesterday, Farke has not learnt any of the lessons of two years' ago.

This is not just about players, but his identity as a coach and the tactics he uses. He needs to be far more fluid tactically and have a game plan for each fixture. If Webber and Farke are going to insist "we are Norwich and we are going to stick to our identity" then they are going to be relegated because that is far too predictable. It is why pundits were saying two years' ago that Norwich were the best team to be bottom of the league. Norwich need to realise this is the EPL now. Not only are they mixing it with the best players but also the best coaches and backroom teams in the world. For me, Farke is not an EPL coach, unless he can prove otherwise. The tactical issues are as follows:

1. You cannot have the full-backs bombing forward because Norwich do not have the quality to make this work, but more importantly they will get turned over on the break and the centre-backs will be drawn out of position leaving big holes at the back. Norwich were doing this in the Championship under Alex Neil - so no lessons learnt from a lower level years' ago even.

2. The full-backs need to work in a defensive unit of four and do their jobs cutting out/blocking crosses. The boy Williams is good at doing this so they need to get him in.

3. It is no good playing out from the back all the time as it will not beat the opposition press and as soon as possession is lost it only takes two passes and the ball is in the back of the net.

4. Zonal marking: space never scored a goal, but plenty of players will at this level. Norwich need to change to man-marking with every player having a job to do.

5. Stopping the opposition: for clubs like Norwich to survive at this level you have to adopt a negative strategy because you cannot compete on quality. Therefore, every fixture first and foremost must be about stopping this or that player; then see what you can exploit. What Worthy used to call earning the right to play. Probably will not go down well with fans, but forget about them, they are numpties gagging to go back to the Championship anyway.

6. Pukki can only score one type of goal running off the last defender. Every opposition coach will know this from two years' ago and so Norwich need to find other ways to score like heading in or having a clever set-piece routine or creating box in the fox chances.

Once again Norwich look like going into this season with no EPL signings so that will clearly hinder the implementation of any of the above. Also, why are they signing relegated players? Are these the only type they can get? Perhaps the players concerned took a look at the CVs of the Canary board members and thought well this is the club for me. Hardly the best motivation.

 

Stopped here.

[Alex Moss 2,167]

18 minutes ago, CDMullins said:

Stopped here.

Can’t like your post, C, as forum is playing up, but yep was a bit of a giveaway to say the least 😂

[horsefly 5,281]

28 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Exactly. And the boy Maximin came on yesterday, changed the game and Farke had no response. Other coaches respond in kind to what their opposite numbers have up their sleeve.

He had half the squad missing for Christ's sake! Did you see how many substitutes we were able to field? And even that included players not really match fit.

[Big Vince 413]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

The tactic is NOT to have full-backs bombing forward with no one covering those areas. Do you really think Farke is so naive? Neither is Farke so naive that he thinks we can create enough opportunities to win a game by not allowing our speedy full backs to cross the half-way line.

So you would rather we hoof the ball forward to Pukki, and you think it won't come straight back at us.

There's a reason why every team in the PL uses zonal marking, every statistical analysis shows it is far more effective than man-to-man marking.

I can see why you said elsewhere that we won't score any goals this season if you think this is the key to success. If you think Norwich will survive by parking the bus for 90 mins and holding out for nil-nil draws then you must have thought Cris Hughton was a reckless adventurer. Somehow I get the feeling Farke is well aware that we need to be both defensively solid and incisive in attack.

Wasn't it you decrying the purchase of Josh Sargent on another thread? You know, the guy whose last goal for Weder Bremen was an excellent header.

Yes, Farke is so naive as to have full-backs going forward with no one tucking in behind because that is what happened yesterday with the 3 centre-backs left exposed. 

If you are going to use the full-backs as attackers then it needs to lead to goals, but Aarons is not Cafu or Roberto Carlos, is he? How many times have we seen the boy bomb forward only to see it come to nothing?

There are ways of beating the press without going route one. 

You need to listen to the whole Dion Dublin interview.

[Jim Smith 2,540]

54 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Exactly. And the boy Maximin came on yesterday, changed the game and Farke had no response. Other coaches respond in kind to what their opposite numbers have up their sleeve.

To be fair yesterday we had nothing to respond to and we also took off our midfield early in the second half. 

[Jim Smith 2,540]

55 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Exactly. And the boy Maximin came on yesterday, changed the game and Farke had no response. Other coaches respond in kind to what their opposite numbers have up their sleeve.

To be fair yesterday we had nothing to respond  with and we also took off our midfield early in the second half. 

[horsefly 5,281]

39 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Yes, Farke is so naive as to have full-backs going forward with no one tucking in behind because that is what happened yesterday with the 3 centre-backs left exposed. 

If you are going to use the full-backs as attackers then it needs to lead to goals, but Aarons is not Cafu or Roberto Carlos, is he? How many times have we seen the boy bomb forward only to see it come to nothing?

Silly me! I should have realised every other team using attacking full-backs (I.e. every team) have a near 100% return rate on goals created. And silly me for looking at the use of attacking full-backs by Farke over the years and thinking it has contributed significantly to our success, as well as providing some incredibly exciting football. Perhaps Farke can fit Aarons and Gianoullis with devices that administer an electric shock if they move forward of the half-way line,