Guardian Season Previews

[KiwiScot 1,634]

Obviously not up to date by the time the season starts. Just reading about Burnley who don't have much depth or signings, but an experienced first XI.

"the owners are improving the football structure from coaching to recruitment, with artificial intelligence helping the search for talent. An app sourced 28 players from around the world to be invited on trial. The Under-23s and youth sides are witnessing an overhaul as Burnley enjoy a much-needed refresh after moving the academy from category three to one status"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/series/premier-league-2021-22-previews

Edit to add Fan previews

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/08/premier-league-2021-22-fan-previews-part-one-arsenal-to-leicester

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/08/premier-league-2021-22-fan-previews-part-two-liverpool-to-wolves

Edit Edit  - Now with Norwich

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/aug/11/premier-league-2021-22-preview-no-15-norwich-city

Edited August 10, 2021 by KiwiScot

[PurpleCanary 6,084]

6 minutes ago, KiwiScot said:

Obviously not up to date by the time the season starts. Just reading about Burnley who don't have much depth or signings, but an experienced first XI.

"the owners are improving the football structure from coaching to recruitment, with artificial intelligence helping the search for talent. An app sourced 28 players from around the world to be invited on trial. The Under-23s and youth sides are witnessing an overhaul as Burnley enjoy a much-needed refresh after moving the academy from category three to one status"

https://www.theguardian.com/football/series/premier-league-2021-22-previews

The Guardian have predicted Brighton to finish 12th, Brentford 18th and Burnley 16th. Hard then to see which clubs other than ourselves and Watford they have earmarked for the other two relegation places.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,383]

14 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Guardian have predicted Brighton to finish 12th, Brentford 18th and Burnley 16th. Hard then to see which clubs other than ourselves and Watford they have earmarked for the other two relegation places.

Could be Palace and Newcastle, but almost certainly going to be at least one out of Norwich and Watford.

[king canary 8,261]

16 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Could be Palace and Newcastle, but almost certainly going to be at least one out of Norwich and Watford.

Palace are suddenly the most interesting team outside of the top 6. 

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,383]

3 minutes ago, king canary said:

Palace are suddenly the most interesting team outside of the top 6. 

9 first team players gone and only 4 in at this stage and Patrick Vieria a coach with debatable success so far.

It all points to disaster, which means they will probably get into the top 10...

Edited August 4, 2021 by Bethnal Yellow and Green

[Badger 2,732]

Palace have mainly stayed up for so long by playing defensive and pragmatic football. The brief attempt at something more entertaining, under Frank de Boer, was unsuccessful. It will be interesting to see if it works this time - obviously it serves Norwich's interest if it doesn't!

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 4,435]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

Palace are suddenly the most interesting team outside of the top 6. 

Indeed, it could go either way.

I was listening to Talksport last night on the way home from our game and one of their men said he fancies Palace to finish 7th.

They have a hell of a lot of work to do this summer, but the early part of it has impressed me, to be fair. 

 

[KiwiScot 1,634]

It's up to the x3 promoted teams together to help make the gap closer otherwise there's no point if an established team struggle or not.

[Bovril 232]

As it stands, you would have to have us finishing 20th (whether that is from a Norwich or Neutral point of view) as our squad is on a par/worse than last year's. You can read nothing into last night's result against what in effect was a Conference/King's Lynn level team with Gillingham not playing their first team and including a fair few triallists. 

This isn't a doom and gloom post, and of course we have to look at the squad come start of September to see the big picture but it would take a brave punter to back anything other than Norwich being bottom come end of August given our current squad and fixtures up until that point.

 In summary, if you're making a prediction now, I see no qualms with journalists placing us 20th, however we need to wait for September 1st to get a better idea. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,359]

SKyBet have us as Even money 2nd favourites for the drop. If we're as bad as seems to be the social media consensus, that's a double your money gift horse. 

[PurpleCanary 6,084]

59 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Could be Palace and Newcastle, but almost certainly going to be at least one out of Norwich and Watford.

Newcastle finished the season quite strongly, I think. With Palace it depends whether Vieira  works or not, I suppose. The Guardian does it in a slightly odd way, in that their placings come from a consensus of their football reporters; and are not necessarily the view of the specific previewer. And with Brighton the consensus is that they will climb four places to 12th, but the preview by Michael Butler wasn't anything like that positive!

[AJ 1,306]

16 minutes ago, Bovril said:

As it stands, you would have to have us finishing 20th (whether that is from a Norwich or Neutral point of view) as our squad is on a par/worse than last year's. You can read nothing into last night's result against what in effect was a Conference/King's Lynn level team with Gillingham not playing their first team and including a fair few triallists. 

This isn't a doom and gloom post, and of course we have to look at the squad come start of September to see the big picture but it would take a brave punter to back anything other than Norwich being bottom come end of August given our current squad and fixtures up until that point.

 In summary, if you're making a prediction now, I see no qualms with journalists placing us 20th, however we need to wait for September 1st to get a better idea. 

Last I remembered we finished well above Watford and Brentford, so why are we suddenly worse than those two teams?

[Fr. Chewy Louie 137]

22 minutes ago, AJ said:

Last I remembered we finished well above Watford and Brentford, so why are we suddenly worse than those two teams?

Well we have lost our standout best player (possibly best 2 with Skipp), so it's understandable. Not to say we won't ultimately be improved overall, but you can see why people might think we're weaker.

[Big Vince 389]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

The Guardian have predicted Brighton to finish 12th, Brentford 18th and Burnley 16th. Hard then to see which clubs other than ourselves and Watford they have earmarked for the other two relegation places.

Well there you go Purps. You have made my point for me perfectly. That under Delia it is automatically assumed by all concerned that Norwich do not belong at this level and will go down.

[WD40 725]

34 minutes ago, AJ said:

Last I remembered we finished well above Watford and Brentford, so why are we suddenly worse than those two teams?

Lost twice to Watford last year so only ahead of them given our relative record against other teams - much much more difficult in the prem.

They showed how we still struggled last year with the pace and power of prem teams. Hope the signings have addressed that. 

[Bovril 232]

59 minutes ago, AJ said:

Last I remembered we finished well above Watford and Brentford, so why are we suddenly worse than those two teams?

Watford appointed the wrong man and still finished 2nd. With a better manager, both Watford and Bournemouth should have finished above us, they had better squads overall. 

Brentford have kept their squad and added some key players. 

I'm not saying they are light-years above us, not an awful lot to go between, but at this stage (and as I said, hopefully this changes come Sept 1st) I'd make us favourites to finish bottom. 

[Krul Mistress 36]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Newcastle finished the season quite strongly, I think. With Palace it depends whether Vieira  works or not, I suppose. The Guardian does it in a slightly odd way, in that their placings come from a consensus of their football reporters; and are not necessarily the view of the specific previewer. And with Brighton the consensus is that they will climb four places to 12th, but the preview by Michael Butler wasn't anything like that positive!

They finished strongly because Willock scored a goal a game. If they fail to sign him or anyone of note, they are surely going down. Bruce is an absolutely terrible manager.

EDIT: I always remember this article from his time at Sunderland, it's a good read. He's been woefully past it for a decade: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2011/nov/30/steve-bruce-sunderland-sacked

Edited August 4, 2021 by Krul Mistress
Link about Bruce

[shefcanary 2,777]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

With Palace it depends whether Vieira  works or not, I suppose. 

He won't!  It will depend on his replacement!  Fat Sam again?

[king canary 8,261]

2 hours ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

9 first team players gone and only 4 in at this stage and Patrick Vieria a coach with debatable success so far.

It all points to disaster, which means they will probably get into the top 10...

Its odd- I took a look at their squad page today to see who they have left and several of the released players are still listed, like Clyne and Wickham- maybe they are still trying to renew those deals?

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 2,383]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Its odd- I took a look at their squad page today to see who they have left and several of the released players are still listed, like Clyne and Wickham- maybe they are still trying to renew those deals?

Ah, maybe they are on rolling deals while they try and finalise things. Cahill was doing that until he left recently.

[Badger 2,732]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Its odd- I took a look at their squad page today to see who they have left and several of the released players are still listed, like Clyne and Wickham- maybe they are still trying to renew those deals?

Palace had an unsustainable wage bill, and are trying to reduce it. It might be that they want to keep the players you identify, but I'll still in negotiation about the wage.

[Feedthewolf 5,457]

30 minutes ago, Bethnal Yellow and Green said:

Ah, maybe they are on rolling deals while they try and finalise things. Cahill was doing that until he left recently.

Keeping hold of Connor Wickham for another year would be an excellent precursor of their impending doom.

[chicken 2,959]

3 hours ago, Bovril said:

As it stands, you would have to have us finishing 20th (whether that is from a Norwich or Neutral point of view) as our squad is on a par/worse than last year's. You can read nothing into last night's result against what in effect was a Conference/King's Lynn level team with Gillingham not playing their first team and including a fair few triallists. 

This isn't a doom and gloom post, and of course we have to look at the squad come start of September to see the big picture but it would take a brave punter to back anything other than Norwich being bottom come end of August given our current squad and fixtures up until that point.

 In summary, if you're making a prediction now, I see no qualms with journalists placing us 20th, however we need to wait for September 1st to get a better idea. 

One player worse, several players better. At least on a par, overall the squad has been improved - it just depends if you feel that Norwich were a one man team or not.

[KiwiScot 1,634]

Crystal Palace for 17th, but it mainly talks about whether the players will be better/worse under the new manager. A large mix of experience and experience basically. They have Brentford and Watford plus several top teams in their opening matches.

[king canary 8,261]

18 hours ago, chicken said:

One player worse, several players better. At least on a par, overall the squad has been improved - it just depends if you feel that Norwich were a one man team or not.

I find it really difficult to get my head around how I view our squad at times.

I think from an individual talent perspective we're probably weaker than we were two seasons ago. From a team perspective though I feel like we're stronger. For me, Godfrey is a significantly better overall player than any of our central defenders but his style just isn't suited to a team on the back foot fighting relegation. 

Tactically it feels also like Farke has moved forward and the signings suggest a more pragmatic style of play is going to be used.

I'm not sure we'll stay up but I am definitely more confident this team won't be bullied in the way we were a couple of years back.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

19 hours ago, chicken said:

One player worse, several players better. At least on a par, overall the squad has been improved - it just depends if you feel that Norwich were a one man team or not.

Hmmm not quite for me chicken. 

We've lost Skipp and Buendia, our two stand-out players from last year.

We will do very well to have any of our new players fill their boots in terms of importance to the team (not in terms of their exact role on the pitch - just their individual importance). 

Gilmour looks like he will be good, Rashica could be good, and Lees-Melou does look promising - but they are all total unknowns in this team in a competitive fixture. Obviously Gunn is also an upgrade on McGovern but that's unlikely to impact our first 11. 

So I think you can argue that with the current squad we might be on par with, or - at best - very slightly better than last year, but only if all three of these first team signings happen to do really well when the season starts.

However IMO it is very unlikely that our 3 new first team signings will all hit the ground running and immediately do really well, I expect instead that we will see someone like Gilmour do excellently, but then someone like Rashica struggle. It is very rare to get a clean sweep of immediately successful incoming transfers. 

So if given the choice between the two squads now, I think I would much rather have the certainty in knowing that Buendia and Skipp were still here, as the two players who were well established as our number 1 and number 2 players last year, who would undoubtedly continue to be key players if they were still here.

Fortunately its a bit of a moot debate, as we are far from finished just yet, and I expect there won't be a debate about the comparable strength of the two teams come the end of the window!

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

41 minutes ago, king canary said:

I find it really difficult to get my head around how I view our squad at times.

I think from an individual talent perspective we're probably weaker than we were two seasons ago. From a team perspective though I feel like we're stronger. For me, Godfrey is a significantly better overall player than any of our central defenders but his style just isn't suited to a team on the back foot fighting relegation. 

Tactically it feels also like Farke has moved forward and the signings suggest a more pragmatic style of play is going to be used.

I'm not sure we'll stay up but I am definitely more confident this team won't be bullied in the way we were a couple of years back.

Given we improved so significantly after our 19/20 prem campaign, despite the relegation, the comparison should be made with last seasons team, rather than 2 seasons ago IMO.

How do you think we weigh up against last year?

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,607]

23 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

SKyBet have us as Even money 2nd favourites for the drop. If we're as bad as seems to be the social media consensus, that's a double your money gift horse. 

I’ve done it with the inevitable Binner promotion and got a healthy 11/2 as a double . Bye bye mortgage !! 

[chicken 2,959]

2 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Hmmm not quite for me chicken. 

We've lost Skipp and Buendia, our two stand-out players from last year.

We will do very well to have any of our new players fill their boots in terms of importance to the team (not in terms of their exact role on the pitch - just their individual importance). 

Gilmour looks like he will be good, Rashica could be good, and Lees-Melou does look promising - but they are all total unknowns in this team in a competitive fixture. Obviously Gunn is also an upgrade on McGovern but that's unlikely to impact our first 11. 

So I think you can argue that with the current squad we might be on par with, or - at best - very slightly better than last year, but only if all three of these first team signings happen to do really well when the season starts.

However IMO it is very unlikely that our 3 new first team signings will all hit the ground running and immediately do really well, I expect instead that we will see someone like Gilmour do excellently, but then someone like Rashica struggle. It is very rare to get a clean sweep of immediately successful incoming transfers. 

So if given the choice between the two squads now, I think I would much rather have the certainty in knowing that Buendia and Skipp were still here, as the two players who were well established as our number 1 and number 2 players last year, who would undoubtedly continue to be key players if they were still here.

Fortunately its a bit of a moot debate, as we are far from finished just yet, and I expect there won't be a debate about the comparable strength of the two teams come the end of the window!

Skipp has never played in the EPL. He is just as unknown at this level as Rashica and PLM, but both have played at a higher level for longer. They are not "unknowns" it's just a matter of adapting to the English game. Plenty of examples of players from Germany and France coming to the UK and doing well, especially for us as we have a very European approach to our set up and the English game isn't really as different as it once was. At least we incorporate a lot more technical ability than athletic out houses these days.
 

[chicken 2,959]

3 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Given we improved so significantly after our 19/20 prem campaign, despite the relegation, the comparison should be made with last seasons team, rather than 2 seasons ago IMO.

How do you think we weigh up against last year?

No it shouldn't. We're going into a PL season.