Think our squad looks weak

[lake district canary 4,539]

I thought it was interesting to see the way the team set up yesterday.  Omobamidele was on the left a lot of the time, almost in the left back position at times and the three across the back, with Sorensen was something we are going to see more of.   With Sorensen in the set up, you could see how he would fit in there, with his abilities on the ball.  In that way, it offers something quite different to what we are used to seeing - perhaps even more total football than previously.  I noticed Cantwell went to the back three a couple of times as others went forwards, giving the impression that even attacking players will drop back when needed to.  With that in mind you can see quite how Placheta could fit into a wing back position. Mumba obviously capable there too. Aarons, if he stays fits that scheme.

A flexible 352 set up which at any time during a match can become a 532/442/4411 etc etc means -

GK -   one from -                     Krul/Gunn

Back three - three from      -  Sorensen Hanley Gibson Omobamidele Zimmermann

Wing backs - Two from    -  Aarons/Byram/Mumba/Placheta

Central/attacking midfielders - three from - Gilmour/Maclean/Cantwell/Dowell/Lees-Melou/Rupp

Forwards -   two from          -   Pukki/Rashica/Idah/Hugill

Now imo, you could pick ANY of those players in those positions and we would have a very strong team - and that's not including any youngsters that might come through, or further players to be brought in.

I think we are going to see us evolving into a kind of total football that surpasses even what we have seen up to now, which at times has looked fantastic anyway, so it is going to be a very interesting season - look out for a kind of "Farkeball plus plus".

Hold on to your hats!

Edited July 17, 2021 by lake district canary

[Capt. Pants 4,260]

Don't think you can be reading anything into last night's formation tbh. Is was fluid to the extreme with players just fitting in where they can to give the whole squad a game.

We know where the squad needs strengthening and where we need competitive cover. I think we also recognise if we don't do it then we will be relegated.

[TheGunnShow 5,949]

16 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I thought it was interesting to see the way the team set up yesterday.  Omobamidele was on the left a lot of the time, almost in the left back position at times and the three across the back, with Sorensen was something we are going to see more of.   With Sorensen in the set up, you could see how he would fit in there, with his abilities on the ball.  In that way, it offers something quite different to what we are used to seeing - perhaps even more total football than previously.  I noticed Cantwell went to the back three a couple of times as others went forwards, giving the impression that even attacking players will drop back when needed to.  With that in mind you can see quite how Placheta could fit into a wing back position. Mumba obviously capable there too. Aarons, if he stays fits that scheme.

A flexible 352 set up which at any time during a match can become a 532/442/4411 etc etc means -

GK -   one from -                     Krul/Gunn

Back three - three from      -  Sorensen Hanley Gibson Omobamidele Zimmermann

Wing backs - Two from    -  Aarons/Byram/Mumba/Placheta

Central/attacking midfielders - three from - Gilmour/Maclean/Cantwell/Dowell/Lees-Melou/Rupp

Forwards -   two from          -   Pukki/Rashica/Idah/Hugill

Now imo, you could pick ANY of those players in those positions and we would have a very strong team - and that's not including any youngsters that might come through, or further players to be brought in.

I think we are going to see us evolving into a kind of total football that surpasses even what we have seen up to now, which at times has looked fantastic anyway, so it is going to be a very interesting season - look out for a kind of "Farkeball plus plus".

Hold on to your hats!

Meanwhile, Giannoulis thinks "hello, the latest Greek tragedy is that you forgot me!"

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

Krul

Hanley  Sorensen  Gibson

Aarons  Gilmour  PLM  Giannoulis

Rashica  Pukki  Cantwell

 

With Omabamidele, McLean, Dowell, Byram (hopefully) and Rupp forming the basis of a decent bench (or contenders for starting places), that’s a pretty exciting line up in my opinion. With still 4 weeks until the start of the season and 7 until the window closes, I really don’t understand those panicking at this point. Do we really still not trust Webber and Farke?

Edited July 17, 2021 by Fiery Zac

[cambridgeshire canary 6,751]

41 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Wouldn't read too much into that. You'll find a fair number of preseason games are done when in a somewhat fatigued state from very heavy training, so players will be taking to the field in a somewhat tired condition or could be feeling somewhat tight/tense from them. Under those circumstances it's just a case of turning your legs over at some speed, but not your top speed.

Otherwise - hello, physio bench.

Plus Kings Lynn had already played a full 90 minutes just a few days prior, with the same team which was mostly a regular strongest starting 11 for them.

[Gordon Bennett 787]

I think we'll see another four, five maybe even half a dozen signings come in before the window closes.  I also think some players already here who didn't play every week last season will be significantly involved. Whether we will be good enough to stay up is crystal ball stuff really but I'm certain that lessons were learned last time by everybody and we will be far more prepared this time.

[chicken 2,635]

36 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Don't think you can be reading anything into last night's formation tbh. Is was fluid to the extreme with players just fitting in where they can to give the whole squad a game.

We know where the squad needs strengthening and where we need competitive cover. I think we also recognise if we don't do it then we will be relegated.

Spot on.

When you look at the squad we had available to pick from it is clear that the main intent was to try and get as many of the first team squad on the pitch together and a formation that helped to do that.

Players not available: Krul, Hanley, Gibson, Aarons, Giannoulis, McLean, Lees-Melou, Pukki, Byrum.

Essentially our first choice back four from last season and one of our first choice midfielders.

[curious yellow 184]

I don't think Placheta played badly yesterday. Defensively ok, got forward quickly and won some corners. Will be a useful squad member as cover for Dimi as wing back or as an attacking sub. 

His problem is his right foot, needs to work on that. 

[Yellow and Green 334]

To be fair, DF said yesterday that the only area that didn't need strengthening was the GK position, so they are fully aware of the situation.

The best way to look at it is that we have a month until the season starts and I think we've been the most active club in the PL.

[Yellow and Green 334]

Re: Placheta, it certainly looks as though he is still adjusting to the way we play. It's an odd one because, like Hugill, his strengths don't match our style.

This could change if we adopt a counter attacking approach next season. Then he could be a useful option. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I was delighted to see us persisting with the back three last night. We cannot escape the fact that we are going to have to adapt better than we did last time. It doesn't have to be defensive, it just makes you more solid.

We cannot bid for top strikers or defenders so we have to strengthen our midfield with what we have. And midfield will be the key to us staying up. If we get rolled over too many times we will lose confidence.

Just like last season's change of emphasis, with Skipp protecting the two CB's so well, we can avoid large scores against and remain in games and in touch.

[Branston Pickle 3,665]

I’m intrigued how some of our players seem to have had to come into yesterday’s game as though it was a PL match rather than a training game, or just be written off.

 Placheta, for instance, was in the Euros and can have only just come back from his break, that he was playing at all says more than anything.  I still think there’s something in him and would love him to succeed with us, but perhaps others don’t,

Edited July 17, 2021 by Branston Pickle

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

4 minutes ago, curious yellow said:

I don't think Placheta played badly yesterday. Defensively ok, got forward quickly and won some corners. Will be a useful squad member as cover for Dimi as wing back or as an attacking sub. 

His problem is his right foot, needs to work on that. 

I don't know, watch Placheta for Lynn's goal. He may not have reached the ball before Barrows but he didn't even attempt to track the run. 

He has electric pace, but I'm not convinced the footballing brain or end product is there right now. 

[chicken 2,635]

2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Don't want to be too negative, but just looking at our squad at the moment and do we really think we've got a chance in hell? 

We're seeing a right footed defensive mid having to be used at left back again due to one injury.

Gilmour looks class but strong Premier League midfielders are going to walk through us unless we add some steel, desperately need a Skipp replacement, which Gilmour isn't.

Placheta is in and around the first team squad unless we sign another wide player, and yes to me he still looks like he's stealing a living as a professional footballer.

And again we're going to be reliant on Pukki for our goals for an entire season, despite him showing last time that he isn't immune to a confidence crisis. Hugill at £5m looks a poor investment. 

Hanley was class last season and class for Scotland, but he's still a complete unknown for the level above, has he actually improved? I hope so, because Zimmermann has looked shot for ages. 

I know people are going to say "I didn't realise the transfer window had closed" but I can't help but feel that we need a good 3 players who can walk straight into the first XI, and at least a couple of additional squad players (e.g. the left back would be a loan if McCallum still considered a good prospect?). 

Can people really see us signing 5 or 6 and getting the quality right? 

And where an earth was Max Aarons yesterday? Off then is he? So need a right back too?

Short of positivity and will be for as long as it looks like we'll be giving Placheta, Hugill and Zimmermann Premier League minutes, these three are definitely way short of the required standard at this level, and for as long as we're giving Sorenson minutes as a full back. 

 

The way I look at it is are we stronger than when we went into it last time round in the PL. Forget last season for the moment, but the PL last time.

GK: Krul/Farhman/McGovern Vs Krul/Gunn/McGovern = stronger.
CB: Hanley/Klose/Zimmermann/Godfrey Vs Hanley/Gibson/ Zimmermann/ Omobamidele + another = Evens, but stronger if another is brought in.
FB: Aarons/Byram/Lewis Vs Aarons/Giannoulis/Mumba/Byram = stronger
MF: McLean/Tettey/Vrancic/Leitner/Trybull/Amadou(L) & Rupp in Jan Vs McLean/Rupp/Sorenson/Lees-Melou/Gilmour & another = stronger in quality, weak on the DM.
AM: Cantwell/Buendia/Hernandez/Roberts(L)/Duda(Jan L) Vs Cantwell/Dowell/Rashica/Hernandez/Placheta & another = better strength in depth IMHO, so stronger, marginally.
STR: Pukki/Drmic/Idah/Srbeny Vs Pukki/Hugill/Idah & another = Stronger, Hugill is better than Drmic. Srbeny made only 8 sub appearances that season, and you would have to say adding another striker is likely to improve upon that.

If you look over the last few seasons you can see what they have been trying to do. Slowly but surely expanding the pool of genuinely capable players in the squad. Some of the first choice players may have remained that way, for good reason. But their understudies have improved.

[Son Ova Gunn 165]

58 minutes ago, Fiery Zac said:

Krul

Hanley  Sorensen  Gibson

Aarons  Gilmour  PLM  Giannoulis

Rashica  Pukki  Cantwell

 

With Omabamidele, McLean, Dowell, Byram (hopefully) and Rupp forming the basis of a decent bench (or contenders for starting places), that’s a pretty exciting line up in my opinion. With still 4 weeks until the start of the season and 7 until the window closes, I really don’t understand those panicking at this point. Do we really still not trust Webber and Farke?

Because two of the CB’s have previously struggled in the premiership and one has never played a game at CB at that level. One of you wing backs is likely to be off. One of the CM’s is an unknown to many and neither are likely to be able to perform the vitality important Skipp role. One of the attackers has potential if can regain form shown 2 seasons ago, one had a lengthy dry spell injury or not last PL season. The bench has a player not kicked a ball in anger for eternity and a guy who looked good for a few games at the end of the season. 
I think that’s why some of the cautious nature are concerned at this stage.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Son Ova Gunn

[TheGoogler 324]

I like how the squad is shaping up, and with potentially up to 5 more additions (without anyone else leaving) still to come, I'm open minded about the nature of the squad. I'll judge in August when the season starts and give final judgement when the window closes.

It's like commenting on a half finished painting. Sure, you can pass judgement in it's current state, but it seems a bit daft when there's still a lot of work to be done.

[TheGoogler 324]

11 minutes ago, chicken said:

GK: Krul/Farhman/McGovern Vs Krul/Gunn/McGovern = stronger.
CB: Hanley/Klose/Zimmermann/Godfrey Vs Hanley/Gibson/ Zimmermann/ Omobamidele + another = Evens, but stronger if another is brought in.
FB: Aarons/Byram/Lewis Vs Aarons/Giannoulis/Mumba/Byram = stronger
MF: McLean/Tettey/Vrancic/Leitner/Trybull/Amadou(L) & Rupp in Jan Vs McLean/Rupp/Sorenson/Lees-Melou/Gilmour & another = stronger in quality, weak on the DM.
AM: Cantwell/Buendia/Hernandez/Roberts(L)/Duda(Jan L) Vs Cantwell/Dowell/Rashica/Hernandez/Placheta & another = better strength in depth IMHO, so stronger, marginally.
STR: Pukki/Drmic/Idah/Srbeny Vs Pukki/Hugill/Idah & another = Stronger, Hugill is better than Drmic. Srbeny made only 8 sub appearances that season, and you would have to say adding another striker is likely to improve upon that.

Doing things like this with "another" plastered everywhere just seems like a waste of time.

[chicken 2,635]

7 minutes ago, TheGoogler said:

Doing things like this with "another" plastered everywhere just seems like a waste of time.

Why? These are the areas that have been confirmed as the club looking to bring in players for. We know we'll add yet so it's just a placeholder.

Not a waste of time at all.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

24 minutes ago, chicken said:

CB: Hanley/Klose/Zimmermann/Godfrey Vs Hanley/Gibson/ Zimmermann/ Omobamidele + another = Evens, but stronger if another is brought in.

Hmmm, not sure we are on the same page here. 

I know that Omobamidele is showing promise, but he's played 9 senior games and had to be marshalled through a few of those, to put him on par with Godfrey who played 108 games and been a regular in the promotion season at the point of promotion is a big stretch.

Hanley and Zimmermann both struggled in this league last time. I don't rule out Hanley having improved, and he's coming into this season in a different set of conditions (after being a regular in promotion + having been bouyed by strong Euros), but Zimmermann seems to have massive regressed since and lost a yard of pace after those injuries.

Got no problem with Omobamidele being in  and around the first team, but in an ideal world we'd be buying a centre back with the short term potential to dislodge Hanley or Gibson (Hanley in reality, as Gibson is left footed and gives us balance), but at the very least need to be throwing somebody in the mix who improves on Zimmermann.

Loved Zimmermann's attitude and he made a big contribution to Farke's first two years, but in reality is a limited player and sheer determination only going to take him so far, the moment Hanley or Gibson get injured or suspended I'd like to think we aren't reliant on a player who has played 9 games for any sustained period of time, and I can't see the answer being Zimmermann.

Also, if we are playing 3 at the back Sorenson becomes an option, but then we still need another for depth if we're playing 3 at the back!

The good news of course is that the club has identified the need for some quality in that position, which is why we bid £10m for Ajer, I just hope we have other targets and can land one. 

24 minutes ago, chicken said:

FB: Aarons/Byram/Lewis Vs Aarons/Giannoulis/Mumba/Byram = stronger

The way Farke was talking late last season, its not clear whether Byram even has a future in the game yet alone one as a squad player in the Premier League. As much as I cross my fingers and wish him he best of luck, I don't think we can count him as one of the four going into this season. . 

Plus we actually had Heise in the squad for the first half of the season last time. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by TeemuVanBasten

[cambridgeshire canary 6,751]

4 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Hmmm, not sure we are on the same page here. 

I know that Omobamidele is showing promise, but he's played 9 senior games and had to be marshalled through a few of those, to put him on par with Godfrey who played 108 games and been a regular in the promotion season at the point of promotion is a big stretch.

Hanley and Zimmermann both struggled in this league last time. I don't rule out Hanley having improved, and he's coming into this season in a different set of conditions (after being a regular in promotion + having been bouyed by strong Euros), but Zimmermann seems to have massive regressed since and lost a yard of pace after those injuries.

Got no problem with Omobamidele being in  and around the first team, but in an ideal world we'd be buying a centre back with the short term potential to dislodge Hanley or Gibson (Hanley in reality, as Gibson is left footed and gives us balance), but at the very least need to be throwing somebody in the mix who improves on Zimmermann.

Loved Zimmermann's attitude and he made a big contribution to Farke's first two years, but in reality is a limited player and sheer determination only going to take him so far, the moment Hanley or Gibson get injured or suspended I'd like to think we aren't reliant on a player who has played 9 games for any sustained period of time, and I can't see the answer being Zimmermann.

Also, if we are playing 3 at the back Sorenson becomes an option, but then we still need another for depth if we're playing 3 at the back!

The good news of course is that the club has identified the need for some quality in that position, which is why we bid £10m for Ajer, I just hope we have other targets and can land one. 

The way Farke was talking late last season, its not clear whether Byram even has a future in the game yet alone one as a squad player in the Premier League. As much as I cross my fingers and wish him he best of luck, I don't think we can count him as one of the four going into this season. . 

Plus we actually had Heise in the squad for the first half of the season last time. 

Always worth remembering that prior to joining us Zimmermans footballing experence was playing for a 5th and 3rd tier German sides and that he was very close to quitting his career.. Fair to say he deserves some respect for making it with us.

Edited July 17, 2021 by cambridgeshire canary

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

I get the OP to be honest, we were told by Webber this season we’d give it more than last time up. So far we’ve replaced Buendia, replaced Skipp, replaced Steipermann and signed a very good keeper.

That's the problem though, we haven't replaced Skipp.

Skipp is a ball winning defensive midfielder, or at least was for us last season. Gilmour is a playmaker, for keeping possession not winning it. A welcome addition, great signing, but we haven't replaced Skipp.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

Just now, cambridgeshire canary said:

Always worth remembering that prior to joining us Zimmermans footballing experence was playing for a 5th and 3rd tier German sides and that he was very close to quitting his career.. Fair to say he deserves some respect for making it with us.

So we shouldn't upgrade Zimmermann out of nostalgia or loyalty? 

That kind of thinking led to Russ Martin outstaying his welcome.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,751]

6 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

So we shouldn't upgrade Zimmermann out of nostalgia or loyalty? 

That kind of thinking led to Russ Martin outstaying his welcome.

Did not say that at all but thanks for putting words in my mouth. Just saying he deservers some respect for all he has done for us. Do I think he's good enough for the Prem? No. Do I think he's a decent player? yes.

[chicken 2,635]

1 minute ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Hmmm, not sure we are on the same page here. 

I know that Omobamidele is showing promise, but he's played 9 senior games and had to be marshalled through a few of those, to put him on par with Godfrey who played 108 games and been a regular in the promotion season at the point of promotion is a big stretch.

Hanley and Zimmermann both struggled in this league last time. I don't rule out Hanley having improved, and he's coming into this season in a different set of conditions (after being a regular in promotion + having been bouyed by strong Euros), but Zimmermann seems to have massive regressed this since.

No of course we're not. You started a thread saying you think our squad looks weak.

So you want me to expand?
CB: Hanley/Klose/Zimmermann/Godfrey Vs Hanley/Gibson/ Zimmermann/ Omobamidele + another = Evens, but stronger if another is brought in.

Godfrey was starting his 2nd ever season as a recognised CB, the first being in the Championship. His inexperience at times showed. As did Aarons (in one game cutting inside on the edge of his own box and presenting a chance to the opposition who scored, essentially a nice little lay off) and Lewis. You've reminded me we had Heise who made how many league appearances?

Anyway, back to CB. Klose, Hanley and Zimmermann were all injured for large chunks of the campaign and we never got to see them really establish themselves at that level. This seems to be the majority view. They are still relatively unproven. Zimmermann could well be a little bit worse off after a career threatening foot injury but we didn't see enough of him last season to say. Gibson, however, is an experienced and very capable CB. So in terms of experience we are much better prepared. We have a young and yes, less experienced defender in Omobamidele, in fact he is also much younger at just turned 19.

So what we have, and no disrespect to Klose, is three solid CB's in Hanley, Gibson and Zimmermann and a young promising CB a bit earlier on in his development than Godfrey, but very much a CB and not a midfielder who is now a CB, which means he is arguably a bit more of a natural at that position.

So for me, yes evens. We have lost a very good prospect but have more nous in there instead and have another prospect who could yet prove to be decent.

Not sure what you are talking about with Byram - Farke was reminding everyone what a quality player there is in him and that they were taking their time with him and were not going to rush him back last season as they would prefer he is fit for pre-season. Either way, if we lose him before then, no doubt we'll bring another player in. It could be Nizet is ready to step up.

However, we have lost Heise and Lewis and gained Mumba and Giannoulis. That absolutely has to be better.


 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,822]

If we're going to be playing three at the back as our standard and switching to a back four on occasions, then Gibson, Hanley and AN Other as the three starters with Omobamidele and Zimmermann to cover (and Sorensen as well in a three) wouldn't be a bad set.

[priceyrice 123]

I agree that currently there is cause for concern going into next season as the squad is clearly weaker now than it was last season, our 2 most talented players have left and our third (Aarons) is likely on his way. 

However, I also agree with others that the window still has almost 2 months to go and I am confident we will see another 2 players brought in for around 10m+ and a couple of other signings. Webber knows his transfer record at the club has been hit and miss, he has done well with some cheap buys who have grown into high valued players (Buendia, puki) and I rate a couple of his more expensive purchases in Gibson and Ginnolous, but a good number of his signings have not made the cut, espicially last time in the prem and to an extent the business last summer (hugil and placheta for a combined 7-8m). I suspect its been relatively slow this window as with the more expensive signings we may be waiting for a price drop as the window progresses, or for the selling clubs to find replacements. Webber has clearly taken a calculated gamble in pushing out our most valuable assets in Buendia and Aarons (assuming he does go, the market for him has likely declined due to the number of good quality full backs on offer this summer at a cheaper price, I.e Bellerin for 15m or tripper for 20m) in order to fund a huge summer overhaul to give us our best chance of staying up, I just hope we get our main targets and don't end the season lambasting the decision to sell our best players and replace them with a greater number of lower quality players who fail to keep us up. 

Now, if we don't see another striker / winger, DM and CB who can challange for the first 11 come in then I think we can all start to panic. I just hope the business is done soon as we all know Farke takes his time to bed new players in. 

Edited July 17, 2021 by priceyrice

[chicken 2,635]

9 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

That's the problem though, we haven't replaced Skipp.

Skipp is a ball winning defensive midfielder, or at least was for us last season. Gilmour is a playmaker, for keeping possession not winning it. A welcome addition, great signing, but we haven't replaced Skipp.

The one thing that always baffles me with praise of Skipp though is that he is often painted as this beast of a dominant midfielder who was bullying players. An absolute bull of a midfielder...

Yet in reality, he's 5'7", and not built any more solidly than Cantwell (who is taller) and a common (silly) criticism of Cantwell is that he's "lightweight".

To me, Skipp is less of the bustling, bruising type DM and more of a Kante, Deschamps, Strachan type midfielder who can get stuck in but are actually far more adept at breaking up play through positioning and reading the game. In the same way that Howson could play the role despite hardly having a huge frame either.

I don't disagree that some "presence" in DM form isn't needed, it is. Just that a lot of people are painting this sort of image of a Skipp replacement needing to be a 6'4" monster who can brush players aside with ease... which is not a like for like replacement.

[FatCanary 249]

Half of the squad weren't even available.

It was a largely second string outfit containing two new first team signings who had met for the first time that morning ffs. There is nothing, absolutely nothing to be read into that performance at all. It is all about minutes in the legs and I cannot for the life of me understand why people attribute any meaning to them whatsoever, particularly at this stage in pre season.

id love to be proven wrong...but I just have this feeling everything is terrible and we're sh1te, you can't go beating a National League side 3-1 in July, how disgraceful. FARKE OUT

 

[FatCanary 249]

I don't agree with anyone who says they are concerned. The custodians of our Club have earned more of your faith than that to sh1t yourselves this early in pre season.

Shame on you.

[Gordon Bennett 787]

47 minutes ago, TheGoogler said:

I like how the squad is shaping up, and with potentially up to 5 more additions (without anyone else leaving) still to come, I'm open minded about the nature of the squad. I'll judge in August when the season starts and give final judgement when the window closes.

It's like commenting on a half finished painting. Sure, you can pass judgement in it's current state, but it seems a bit daft when there's still a lot of work to be done.

Run out of likes but thos is absolutely spot on.