Michael Theoklitos mk 2

[crispeduk 282]

6 minutes ago, canarydan23 said:

So, in his 50s?

Sorry, thought I mentioned he was a grandad

[If wed kept Howie.. 208]

2 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

got one ...... Scott Howie

at least you didn't say Simon Tracey....

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Blaming the keeper for conceding a goal after he's been obviously fouled and the ref's missed it is a new one on me. Saying the goalie's not strong enough to resist when he's got at most one foot on the ground running to retrieve a ball bouncing around on the line after a very good save to knock it onto the underside of the bar in the first place and has no chance of bracing against the impact....

There is no way whatsoever OP has played in goal at any sort of level.

Edited June 25, 2021 by TheGunnShow
Typo

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

What we have is a track record of getting players to realise that potential

I mean, so have Southampton to be fair. Van Djik anybody?

[Gordon Bennett 783]

55 minutes ago, Orly said:

Wait, people are taking OP seriously?  Seems an obvious troll post to me?

"Absolute horror"?  About signing a goalkeeper who was close to our player of the season 3 years ago?  I tend to save my usage of 'absolute horror' for things like genocide or 9/11 etc.

"Is there a worse signing than Angus.."?  Yes.  Yes, there is.

Absolutely, has to be a wind up.

[Six Pack 93]

18 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

I'm not trolling. I wanted to see other poster's viewpoint of Angus Gunn.

I don't go by what I read in newspapers and I'm not blaming him for all the goals his clubs have conceded, I know he did OK for us in that first DF season but he hasn't developed since he's left. DF has that special ability to get the best out of & transform players but can we honestly believe that premiership clubs like Manchester City & Southampton have absolute crap coaching staff that change young budding superstars into inept average players ? His career has been going downhill. Suggestions he is a free agent but we paid a fee ? Many  are confident DF will work his magic and we will have a good goalkeeper on our hands. Loving the club will bring you bravery but the best keepers have a certain instinctiveness about them which make them formidable. Has Gunn got that ?

   

[Indy 3,300]

27 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

I'm not trolling. I wanted to see other poster's viewpoint of Angus Gunn.

I don't go by what I read in newspapers and I'm not blaming him for all the goals his clubs have conceded, I know he did OK for us in that first DF season but he hasn't developed since he's left. DF has that special ability to get the best out of & transform players but can we honestly believe that premiership clubs like Manchester City & Southampton have absolute crap coaching staff that change young budding superstars into inept average players ? His career has been going downhill. Suggestions he is a free agent but we paid a fee ? Many  are confident DF will work his magic and we will have a good goalkeeper on our hands. Loving the club will bring you bravery but the best keepers have a certain instinctiveness about them which make them formidable. Has Gunn got that ?

   

May I just point you to the following!

Can you guess who’s career didn’t develop since leaving Newcastle! Certain Tim Krul!

2007–2008	→ Falkirk (loan)	22
2008–2009	→ Carlisle United (loan)	9
2016–2017	→ Ajax (loan)	0
2016–2017	→ Ajax II (loan)	6
2017	→ AZ (loan)	16
2017	→ Brighton & Hove Albion (loan)	0
2017–2018	Brighton & Hove Albion	0

Edited June 25, 2021 by Indy

[Six Pack 93]

55 minutes ago, horsefly said:

I refer you to the answer I gave before. Demonstrate to me a human being who is able to resist the force of a heavy individual crashing into him orthogonally and I'll introduce you to the first human being able to defy the laws of nature.

He was not instinctive enough to get rid of the ball - just held on to it.

Example (only one I can think of at the moment) - Cricket world cup final 2019. England chasing - Stokes England's last hope smashes a high ball towards the boundary - a NZ fielder running backwards catches the ball but steps over the boundary rope in a backward momentum. If the fielder had thrown the ball back high into the field of play, he could have step over the boundary, then ran forward and retrieved the ball - the catch would still have been made. Seen it done numerous time. England would have lost for sure if that catch had been taken. As a result England drew the game and won the final on a boundary countback. Of course you need to reactions of a cat - you need that to be a good goalkeeper.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,431]

1 hour ago, If wed kept Howie.. said:

OP...

"literally hundreds of goalkeepers out there that we could have signed".... can you literally name them?? or make it easier - name 10 of them (literally)..

If we are being literal there are probably thousands of goalkeepers “out there” that would happily sign a professional form. 
Literally. 

[Six Pack 93]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

May I just point you to the following!

Can you guess who’s career didn’t develop since leaving Newcastle!

2007–2008	→ Falkirk (loan)	22
2008–2009	→ Carlisle United (loan)	9
2016–2017	→ Ajax (loan)	0
2016–2017	→ Ajax II (loan)	6
2017	→ AZ (loan)	16
2017	→ Brighton & Hove Albion (loan)	0
2017–2018	Brighton & Hove Albion	0

I see the point you are trying to make but totally different circumstances. It looks like Krul was on loan from his parent club and played for Falkirk & Carlisle for an injured keeper. Ajax loan looks like being a backup for a top keeper already at the club, also backup at Brighton as well. While Krul was thought to be past his best, Gunn is a young player we had high hopes for - totally went downhill. 

Not sure if DF had to do too much with Krul - we just have to hope he can work with Gunn who has quite a few weaknesses.

[Indy 3,300]

3 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

I see the point you are trying to make but totally different circumstances. It looks like Krul was on loan from his parent club and played for Falkirk & Carlisle for an injured keeper. Ajax loan looks like being a backup for a top keeper already at the club, also backup at Brighton as well. While Krul was thought to be past his best, Gunn is a young player we had high hopes for - totally went downhill. 

Not sure if DF had to do too much with Krul - we just have to hope he can work with Gunn who has quite a few weaknesses.

When Krul left Newcastle was similar age to Gunn, when he went to Southampton, both found it difficult to break into any teams! Gunn is only 25 and we have the coaching here to make Gunn the best he can be, that’s plenty good enough to be our first choice keeper!

My point stands you question Gunn and praise Krul who till he signed for us was lost!

[FatCanary 249]

5 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

I see the point you are trying to make but totally different circumstances. It looks like Krul was on loan from his parent club and played for Falkirk & Carlisle for an injured keeper. Ajax loan looks like being a backup for a top keeper already at the club, also backup at Brighton as well. While Krul was thought to be past his best, Gunn is a young player we had high hopes for - totally went downhill. 

Not sure if DF had to do too much with Krul - we just have to hope he can work with Gunn who has quite a few weaknesses.

Imagine defining someone's weaknesses based on about two pieces of evidence.

[Six Pack 93]

7 minutes ago, Indy said:

When Krul left Newcastle was similar age to Gunn, when he went to Southampton, both found it difficult to break into any teams! Gunn is only 25 and we have the coaching here to make Gunn the best he can be, that’s plenty good enough to be our first choice keeper!

My point stands you question Gunn and praise Krul who till he signed for us was lost!

I must admit that In Krul's first year I thought he was average - another poster (have to look back to see who) pointed out a few things which I later looked out for in his play, made me changed my point of view. A lot of posters responding think Angus Gunn will become a top keeper for us. I hope this is the case - he can prove me wrong on the pitch.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

1 hour ago, Six Pack said:

He was not instinctive enough to get rid of the ball - just held on to it.

Example (only one I can think of at the moment) - Cricket world cup final 2019. England chasing - Stokes England's last hope smashes a high ball towards the boundary - a NZ fielder running backwards catches the ball but steps over the boundary rope in a backward momentum. If the fielder had thrown the ball back high into the field of play, he could have step over the boundary, then ran forward and retrieved the ball - the catch would still have been made. Seen it done numerous time. England would have lost for sure if that catch had been taken. As a result England drew the game and won the final on a boundary countback. Of course you need to reactions of a cat - you need that to be a good goalkeeper.

Comparison is flawed as when the goalie has two hands on the ball, that is it. It would have applied if he was falling backwards into the goal like Nyland did in the infamous case where VAR goosed it, but Gunn was clearly going along the line and was barged over by a foul. At that point you're criticising the keeper for not anticipating the referee to make a mistake after Gunn retrieved a rebound.

You're putting the blame in totally the wrong place. That's a refereeing error, not a goalkeeping one. I do wonder what the assistant referee was doing there as he would surely have been in the best position to tell the referee when the ball had gone over the line. He could then have told the referee that the initial shot was saved.

As much as VAR is a pain in the **** with offsides, that would have picked it up.

[Six Pack 93]

4 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

Comparison is flawed as when the goalie has two hands on the ball, that is it. It would have applied if he was falling backwards into the goal like Nyland did in the infamous case where VAR goosed it, but Gunn was clearly going along the line and was barged over by a foul. At that point you're criticising the keeper for not anticipating the referee to make a mistake after Gunn retrieved a rebound.

You're putting the blame in totally the wrong place. That's a refereeing error, not a goalkeeping one. I do wonder what the assistant referee was doing there as he would surely have been in the best position to tell the referee when the ball had gone over the line. He could then have told the referee that the initial shot was saved.

As much as VAR is a pain in the **** with offsides, that would have picked it up.

I know Gunn was definitely fouled but he left it to a referee to decide ?! I never trust referees & officials to get things right.

But not to worry - by the time the coaching staff & his dad are through with him - he'll be so solid he'd be impossible to knock over and so fast he'd get rid of the ball if he was falling towards the goal.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

9 minutes ago, Six Pack said:

I know Gunn was definitely fouled but he left it to a referee to decide ?! I never trust referees & officials to get things right.

But not to worry - by the time the coaching staff & his dad are through with him - he'll be so solid he'd be impossible to knock over and so fast he'd get rid of the ball if he was falling towards the goal.

By definition, if you know he was fouled, it clearly wasn't his fault!

Not to mention, even big, strong guys are easily knocked off balance when in mid-air or on tiptoe. 

[kirku 1,332]

1 hour ago, Indy said:

When Krul left Newcastle was similar age to Gunn

Krul was about 29 when he left Newcastle permanently? 

[Hardhouse44 261]

I’m not the biggest fan of Gunn. I don’t think he’s in his father’s league and I don’t see him really giving Tim to much to look over his shoulder for. But he is of a decent standard for as and when needed. 
what I do think is good is that it’s good to build squads of players who want to be at the club. And I’m sure Gunn will settle quickly and be a good influence on the squad. 

Edited June 25, 2021 by Hardhouse44

[Indy 3,300]

8 minutes ago, kirku said:

Krul was about 29 when he left Newcastle permanently? 

True, but he left at 27 to go out to Ajax he didn’t play again, was a little like Gunn, just two years difference and the same, was out in the cold till he came here! My point being a good keeper is an asset and we tend to get the best out of keepers, Ruddy & Krul prove that, Gunn while he was here was superb.

[TIL 1010 4,748]

Nothing to see here...............Move on.

[kirku 1,332]

45 minutes ago, Indy said:

My point being a good keeper is an asset and we tend to get the best out of keepers, Ruddy & Krul prove that, Gunn while he was here was superb.

Completely agree 👍

[Indy_Bones 441]

5 hours ago, Six Pack said:

He was not instinctive enough to get rid of the ball - just held on to it.

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on here (and that's saying a LOT)!

A goalkeeper doesn't have to 'get rid of the ball' purely because someone might decide to barge them into the net, and the officials would be too dumb to correctly call the foul and not give the goal!

What's next? Cantwell running at a defender who simply smashes him to the floor without even trying to get the ball and you're going to blame Todd for not passing/shooting before it happens????

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,138]

With Theoklitos I honestly thought at the time we were witnessing another Ali Dia moment where a fraudster had somehow blagged his way onto a football pitch, I remember watching Norwich play a pre-season friendly at Gorleston a few years back and their fat lad in goal was absolutely leagues above Theoklitos. 

Even if Gunn turns out to be terrible (which he won't) there's a big difference between a poor goalkeeper and just 'some guy' with goal keeping gloves on. 

[cornish sam 953]

7 hours ago, Indy said:

True, but he left at 27 to go out to Ajax he didn’t play again, was a little like Gunn, just two years difference and the same, was out in the cold till he came here! My point being a good keeper is an asset and we tend to get the best out of keepers, Ruddy & Krul prove that, Gunn while he was here was superb.

Did he not go to Ajax then to try and rebuild after a serious knee injury? He never really managed to force his way into a team well enough to prove he he'd refound his ability until we took the chance in him.

[cornish sam 953]

8 hours ago, Six Pack said:

I know Gunn was definitely fouled but he left it to a referee to decide ?! I never trust referees & officials to get things right.

But not to worry - by the time the coaching staff & his dad are through with him - he'll be so solid he'd be impossible to knock over and so fast he'd get rid of the ball if he was falling towards the goal.

So you would rather that a keeper who has both hands on the ball and has it under total control blindly flings it into the penalty area or out for a corner on the off chance that a referee doesn't award a blatant foul? My priorities for a goalkeeper are obviously somewhat different to yours....

[The Great Mass Debater 1,090]

Im sorry but having watched the goals I would only really question Gunn on the first one. Dont think he could do anything about any of the others. Very harsh that he was dropped and essentially sent to Coventry on the basis of this game

 

 

[Six Pack 93]

4 hours ago, Indy_Bones said:

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've read on here (and that's saying a LOT)!

A goalkeeper doesn't have to 'get rid of the ball' purely because someone might decide to barge them into the net, and the officials would be too dumb to correctly call the foul and not give the goal!

What's next? Cantwell running at a defender who simply smashes him to the floor without even trying to get the ball and you're going to blame Todd for not passing/shooting before it happens????

Is a keeper punching a ball ridiculous ? They can sense that they may not reach the ball & secure it so make a decision to clear the danger. This is the same thing - Cantwell example not what I'm taking about.

[Six Pack 93]

42 minutes ago, cornish sam said:

So you would rather that a keeper who has both hands on the ball and has it under total control blindly flings it into the penalty area or out for a corner on the off chance that a referee doesn't award a blatant foul? My priorities for a goalkeeper are obviously somewhat different to yours....

Yes agree goalkeepers main priority is to secure the ball with both hands. The problem with referees in todays game is they protect the goalkeeper too much,  give fouls against the strikers even if it was a 50/50 collision - so keepers are just waiting for the whistle. On this occasion the officials did a total c0ckup,  got it wrong. But the keeper wasn't instinctive enough to get rid of the ball. He didn't sense danger !

[cornish sam 953]

30 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Im sorry but having watched the goals I would only really question Gunn on the first one. Dont think he could do anything about any of the others. Very harsh that he was dropped and essentially sent to Coventry on the basis of this game

 

 

Even worse, he was sent to Stoke!

[Six Pack 93]

29 minutes ago, The Great Mass Debater said:

Im sorry but having watched the goals I would only really question Gunn on the first one. Dont think he could do anything about any of the others. Very harsh that he was dropped and essentially sent to Coventry on the basis of this game

 

 

Yes there were some really good finishes into the corners that no-one could reach but some that were hit hard but close to him - could he have saved some of those ? Confidence may have been shot after 1st goal.