Millwall fans boo thier own players taking the knee

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

No, as you are just wasting theirs, mine and your own time.

Its like playing Handball with a Haystack Hermano. Save your breath. 

[Badger 2,406]

6 minutes ago, Taylor324 said:

I must have missed their explanation of how abolishing the police will help fight racism

Just for clarity can I have a recap  

I suspect that one of the reasons that you are so easily manipulated is that you can't even be bothered to turn back one page. It;'s why you are easy meat to propaganda

[Taylor324 36]

2 minutes ago, Herman said:

No, as you are just wasting theirs, mine and your own time.

Thank you for enlightening us, your answer was very informative and has helped to intellectually enrich the debate 

[seanthecanary 168]

27 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

thier 

ThieRRRR!!!

 

THIERRRRR!!!

 

UNNACCEPTABLEEE!!!

I really don't know what 'your' getting so worked up about. 'Their' trying 'they're' best, it's not always 'there' fault.

[horsefly 4,301]

50 minutes ago, Taylor324 said:

No need to get hysterical. BLM by their own admission are a political group and are therefore open to criticism the same as any other political group - So with this in mind, please explain how abolishing the police will help fight racism and promote equality? 

I should also add I'm of mixed race myself and have a good education but thanks for calling me dumb, ignorant and a racist - I suggest your insults tell us more about you than they do about me?

Nothing hysterical in asking you to attend to the actual arguments that have been put forward,rather than your pretend ones. The frustration is with people like you trying to deflect from the debate by introducing issues that are not germaine to that debate and have definitely been used by racists to do precisely that. 

The issue is about sportsmen taking the knee in the cause of racial equality. You can not be seriously suggesting that those sportsmen are doing anything more than that. Are you seriously claiming that these sportsmen are fighting to "abolish the police" (something that has been explained to you is not an aim of the movement but which you typically ignore because it doesn't help your position)? And you surely are not going to claim that these sportsmen are all Marxists because a very few members of BLM are Marxist? The logical fallacy involved in this is simply ridiculous. I have no doubt that some Na*zi sympathisers shop at Tescos, does that mean that anybody else who shops at Tescos is a Na*zi sympathiser? That's how silly your claim is.

And if you don't want to encourage insults I suggest you don't start them off by saying things like: "the point is you have been sucked in by a Marxist political group who rely on naive people like you to support them". I have taught about Marxism for many years in a university so I do know whereof I speak. And like Marx himself said: "All I know is that I am not a Marxist." (Letter to Schmidt, 1890). So why don't you go back and actually read the posts and respond to what has actually been said, rather than spouting irrelevant racist tropes equating anti-racist protests with Marxist ideology.

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by horsefly

[Foxy2600 301]

Its funny how this thread deteriorated into a political mud slinging. Exactly why Politics should not have a place in sport. If you listen to the crowd, all I can hear is 'f7ck*** get on with it!' No wonder they're booing, just like we all do when we we're 1-0 down and the opposition are having a mothers meeting over who's going to take a free kick. They've waited since last year to experience kick-off live. Its no surprise - its Millwall. 

Anyways, racism has no place in football either. For all those referencing BLM as the Oxford Branch of the Women's Choral Society....look up Sasha Johnson. 

 

[Taylor324 36]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

I suspect that one of the reasons that you are so easily manipulated is that you can't even be bothered to turn back one page. It;'s why you are easy meat to propaganda

As a mixed race person - I would like you to explain to me how abolishing the police will help give me racial equality?

[horsefly 4,301]

28 minutes ago, Naturalcynic said:

There are no end of articles available that examine the political motivations and aspirations of the BLM movement.  To use just one example, the piece published on The Heritage Foundation website in September entitled “ Like the Soviets, Black Lives Matter Purges Its History” looks at how BLM has removed several “problematic” statements from its various media profiles in an effort to hide some of its more extreme aims.

Now explain why this is relevant to sportsmen taking the knee in the cause of racial equality.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

5 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

I really don't know what 'your' getting so worked up about. 'Their' trying 'they're' best, it's not always 'there' fault.

Me and Cambridge are tight

he's my G

[Badger 2,406]

Just now, Taylor324 said:

As a mixed race person - I would like you to explain to me how abolishing the police will help give me racial equality?

It was explained to you that this was on page 4. You couldn't be bothered to look. It is because you are so "economical in your efforts" to find alternative views that you are so easily manipulated by far-right organisations. 

Prejudice thrives on ignorance.

[horsefly 4,301]

1 minute ago, Taylor324 said:

As a mixed race person - I would like you to explain to me how abolishing the police will help give me racial equality?

Still deflecting from the issue of sportsmen taking the knee to show solidarity with the cause of racial equality. Unbelievable!

[horsefly 4,301]

6 minutes ago, Foxy2600 said:

Its funny how this thread deteriorated into a political mud slinging. Exactly why Politics should not have a place in sport. If you listen to the crowd, all I can hear is 'f7ck*** get on with it!' No wonder they're booing, just like we all do when we we're 1-0 down and the opposition are having a mothers meeting over who's going to take a free kick. They've waited since last year to experience kick-off live. Its no surprise - its Millwall. 

Anyways, racism has no place in football either. For all those referencing BLM as the Oxford Branch of the Women's Choral Society....look up Sasha Johnson. 

 

Then you have clearly missed the information that this was a political stunt planned by a group of Millwall fans in advance of the match. It had nothing to do with impatience to get the match started.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

DON’T TAKE MONEY

DON’T TAKE FAME

DON’T NEED NO CREDIT CARD TO RIDE THIS TRAIN

THATS THE POWER OF BUH

Edited December 6, 2020 by The Real Buh

[Badger 2,406]

6 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Still deflecting from the issue of sportsmen taking the knee to show solidarity with the cause of racial equality. Unbelievable!

There is little to be gained here from continuing the conversation.

In essence, some on here are opposed to a symbol taken as a gesture of solidarity shown to oppose racism. They do so because they are manipulated by far-right websites who tell them that statements of anti-racism are Marxist etc.

They are arguing that the Millwall supporters booing was a principled political stand against Marxism and that all of those who oppose racism are being manipulated by the far left.

They cannot be persuaded otherwise because they are in the thrall of  the websites and cannot escape it. Their is no point arguing with them they are brain-washed.

[horsefly 4,301]

Just now, Badger said:

There is little to be gained here from continuing the conversation.

In essence, some on here are opposed to a symbol taken as a gesture of solidarity shown to oppose racism. They do so because they are manipulated by far-right websites who tell them that statements of anti-racism are Marxist etc.

They are arguing that the Millwall supporters booing was a principled political stand against Marxism and that all of those who oppose racism are being manipulated by the far left.

They cannot be persuaded otherwise because they are in the thrall of  the websites and cannot escape it. Their is no point arguing with them they are brain-washed.

Sadly you are of course right. I guess as an old -fashioned adherent to the liberal values of the Enlightenment I find myself addicted to promoting the value of reason over superstition, bigotry and irrationality.

[Taylor324 36]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

Still deflecting from the issue of sportsmen taking the knee to show solidarity with the cause of racial equality. Unbelievable!

By definition taking the knee is in support of the BLM movement. You can't cherry pick the virtue signalling element in the hope you are seen as a better person and disassociate with what the movement truly stands for 

So as I still haven't had an answer from you, I'lll ask again - As a mixed race person - how will abolishing the police help give me racial equality? 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

[Petriix 2,840]

There is minimal point in arguing with the entrenched bigots but it's still worth while repeatedly making the rational and reasonable points while rebuffing their outrageous claims. Other, less vocal people, might be reading. It's important to keep the issue in public view so that things gradually improve.

Oh, and 'defund the police' doesn't mean 'abolish the police', it just means stop spending billions on arming them with military equipment and divert that money towards tackling the route cause of crime instead. That seems eminently sensible.

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

4 minutes ago, Taylor324 said:

- how will abolishing the police help give me racial equality? 

Has anyone on here seriously advocated abolishing  the police. Words have meanings, therefore it is helpful to use the correct ones...in the correct context.

 Unfortunately,You cant legislate for stupid.

[Upo 91]

6 pages and a Pepe-memer spamming supports the view that taking a knee is a very effective way to focus attention to an issue that elicits controversy. 

[jaywick_canery 28]

Personally I'm sick of these campaigns assuming everyone is a racist and needs educating. Only a tiny minority has a problem and yet the finger gets pointed at everybody with a pale complexion.

 

 

[horsefly 4,301]

1 minute ago, Taylor324 said:

By definition taking the knee is in support of the BLM movement. You can't cherry pick the virtue signalling element in the hope you are seen as a better person and disassociate with what the movement truly stands for 

So as I still haven't had an answer from you, I'lll ask again - As a mixed race person - how will abolishing the police help give me racial equality? 

You show no ability to reason whatsoever. You have not responded to one single argument anyone has put forward here. Your ignorance about the public expression of actions being impossible to disassociate from original usage is laughable. Leaving aside the nonsense that taking the knee somehow means one must be a Marxist "by definition", you clearly are not aware of the phenomenon of oppressed groups adopting the language of their oppressors in an act of undermining it. That's why gay and lesbian people reclaimed the word "queer" and black people reclaimed the N word. Your ignorance of this is quite startling for someone who claims to be "well educated". There is no such thing as a univocal movement that speaks with one undissenting voice alone. BLM is constituted by many different people and none of them have the sole right to demand that the whole community supports one  and only one viewpoint. And just think for one minute what you are claiming about the millions of people around the world who support the fundamental principle of respect for racial equality. Do you really want to look so foolish as to say that that if they join with others in expressing that principle by taking the knee they have thereby committed themselves to the principles of Marxism. Just think about it!

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

10 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Just think about it!

You are really asking too much there Flyo. 

[horsefly 4,301]

3 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

You are really asking too much there Flyo. 

I know! It was just a cry of hope in an oblivion of entrenched ignorance.

[Taylor324 36]

17 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Has anyone on here seriously advocated abolishing  the police. Words have meanings, therefore it is helpful to use the correct ones...in the correct context.

 Unfortunately,You cant legislate for stupid.

It seems rather Ironic - I'm a person of mixed race raising a valid question in a debate about racism

Yet so far I've not had an answer to my question but I've been called dumb, stupid ignorant and a racist several time by those who are pretending to be standing against racism 

I don't live in the UK but If this is the attitude of your so-called anti-racists I'd hate to think what your real racists are like!

[Badger 2,406]

2 minutes ago, Taylor324 said:

Yet so far I've not had an answer to my question

It has been answered repeatedly, but you can't be bothered to look.

[The Real Buh 3,444]

https://forum.pinkun.com/index.php?/forum/13-non-football/

 

Edited February 6, 2022 by The Real Buh

[wcorkcanary 4,334]

5 minutes ago, Taylor324 said:

It seems rather Ironic - I'm a person of mixed race raising a valid question in a debate about racism

Yet so far I've not had an answer to my question but I've been called dumb, stupid ignorant and a racist several time by those who are pretending to be standing against racism 

I don't live in the UK but If this is the attitude of your so-called anti-racists I'd hate to think what your real racists are like!

The fact that you are mixed race is 100% irrelevant to me, as I'm not a racist , but it seems to be a very big part of your standpoint.  As pointed out several times , the question you ask has been answered before.  It is not on us to repeat ourselves ad nauseam to satisfy your  laziness. Go read, get informed.  Stop looking daft.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,735]

38 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Has anyone on here seriously advocated abolishing  the police. Words have meanings, therefore it is helpful to use the correct ones...in the correct context.

 Unfortunately,You cant legislate for stupid.

Pretty sure he's on about the 'aims' section of the the original black lives matter orginization.. Which is admittedly run by quite a few nutjobs, as you can see below.

 

 

Very much worth noting however that there is a difference between the GROUP and the message that the vast majority of people carry with them and the players in the stadiums are kneeling for.

 

There is a difference between the two.

[horsefly 4,301]

1 minute ago, Taylor324 said:

It seems rather Ironic - I'm a person of mixed race raising a valid question in a debate about racism

Yet so far I've not had an answer to my question but I've been called dumb, stupid ignorant and a racist several time by those who are pretending to be standing against racism 

I don't live in the UK but If this is the attitude of your so-called anti-racists I'd hate to think what your real racists are like!

What is your valid question? It can't be about abolishing the police because as has been answered many, many times NO ONE HAS ARGUED FOR ABOLISHING THE POLICE. 

And the point you make about being "mixed race" is obviously relevant to your personal experiences but doesn't mean that you are immune from perpetuating racist claims. There has been a longstanding debate within BAME communities about the extent to which sometimes they can find themselves complicit with racist stereotypes. So nothing automatically follows from that. The proof of whether someone is racist or not is in what they say and do. And the reality of your posts to-date is that you are associating yourself with views that are spouted by racists from around the world.