Lee Camp, free agent.

[CanaryChris 146]

Really don't think McGovern is the biggest pressing concern. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by CanaryChris

[PurpleCanary 5,592]

1 hour ago, TheGunnShow said:

Are you sure on the bit in bold? Is McGovern really much shorter than Krul if at all?

I think so, and there is certainly also he lack of physical presence. I should say, having seen the highlights now, that McGovern was fouled for that disallowed goal. The Stoke player did back into him. And you can see from the reaction of the Stoke player that he is not at all surprised to see it chalked off.

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 hour ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Michael McGovern isn't good enough to be our Number 2 goalkeeper - brought to you by the same bunch of whingers who confidently told us the sky would fall in because Sorenson was having to play at left back!!

The thing is we have had plenty of opportunities to see what McGovern is about, and he's never shown himself to be anywhere near first team level IMO. At least Sorenson was an unknown quantity, but do you feel his success at left back has been borne out of judgement or luck? The fact there was no hint from Farke of him being signed to play at full back would suggest the latter! 

Of course, glad to see Sorenson excelling - IMO he is a much better defender than Quintilla -  and will be glad if McGovern does the same (would be more than happy to eat my words), but we already know what his best looks like and even if he plays at his peak - we're still going to be massively hamstrung playing out from the back and dealing with crosses / through balls. And if he doesn't play to the best of his abilities.. well... I will just be happy if we can stay within touching distance of the top 2 in time for Krul's return.

Edited November 25, 2020 by Hank shoots Skyler

[Thirsty Lizard 3,184]

10 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

The thing is we have had plenty of opportunities to see what McGovern is about, and he's never shown himself to be anywhere near first team level IMO. At least Sorenson was an unknown quantity, but do you feel his success at left back has been borne out of judgement or luck? The fact there was no hint from Farke of him being signed to play at full back would suggest the latter! 

 

The mountain of evidence that has accumulated since he came here that Farke is little short of a tactical genius tells us that it is of course judgement and nothing to do with luck. Farke made the decision (judgement) to play Sorenson at left back - he didn't have to - so by definition it's judgement. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

1 minute ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

The mountain of evidence that has accumulated since he came here that Farke is little short of a tactical genius tells us that it is of course judgement and nothing to do with luck. Farke made the decision (judgement) to play Sorenson at left back - he didn't have to - so by definition it's judgement. 

Sure he deserves heaps and heaps of credit overall (he is probably my favourite manager we have had in my lifetime), but entering the season with one specialist LB is not a tactical masterstroke... it is Sorenson that deserves the credit for doing so well in a position he has never played in nor was expecting to - it just as easily could've gone very wrong however. And for all his defensive qualities we definitely miss having a specialist player on that side who can hug the touchline and get crosses in the box / open up the play centrally. We look very narrow at times.

Is the decision to have McGovern as our back up keeper also tactical genius? Based on his performances for us (and there have been plenty enough), would you not personally prefer us to have a keeper who looks a bit more comfortable doing the basics? Someone who can play out from the back (at least a little) and show a bit more aerially in the box? No one is expecting someone else to compete for Krul but plainly there is a huge gap between the two which easily could've been filled with a superior back up IMO.  

If you don't think we should've signed one then that's fine - but I think its a valid concern to have as we go into our next games.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,184]

10 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Sure he deserves heaps and heaps of credit overall (he is probably my favourite manager we have had in my lifetime), but entering the season with one specialist LB is not a tactical masterstroke... it is Sorenson that deserves the credit for doing so well in a position he has never played in nor was expecting to - it just as easily could've gone very wrong however. And for all his defensive qualities we definitely miss having a specialist player on that side who can hug the touchline and get crosses in the box / open up the play centrally. We look very narrow at times.

Is the decision to have McGovern as our back up keeper also tactical genius? Based on his performances for us (and there have been plenty enough), would you not personally prefer us to have a keeper who looks a bit more comfortable doing the basics? Someone who can play out from the back (at least a little) and show a bit more aerially in the box? No one is expecting someone else to compete for Krul but plainly there is a huge gap between the two which easily could've been filled with a superior back up IMO.  

If you don't think we should've signed one then that's fine - but I think its a valid concern to have as we go into our next games.

The trouble with all this internet message board criticism of the type you often seem to indulge in is that you don't actually have to run the club. Last season we brought in Fahrman as high quality goalkeeper back up and he he played approximately 20 minutes of League football. The combination of his loan fee and his presumably pretty high wages means that we ended up basically chucking a large sum of money down the pan.

Fast forward to this season where we are down about £35 million on revenues as a result of Covid and we just don't have the luxury of having expensive back up in all positions. I'm quite happy with having McGovern as our number 2 keeper in the Championship. Of course he's no Tim Krul, but there are very few Championship clubs who have two top quality keepers on their books. 

[Hank shoots Skyler 2,094]

9 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

The trouble with all this internet message board criticism of the type you often seem to indulge in is that you don't actually have to run the club. Last season we brought in Fahrman as high quality goalkeeper back up and he he played approximately 20 minutes of League football. The combination of his loan fee and his presumably pretty high wages means that we ended up basically chucking a large sum of money down the pan.

Fast forward to this season where we are down about £35 million on revenues as a result of Covid and we just don't have the luxury of having expensive back up in all positions. I'm quite happy with having McGovern as our number 2 keeper in the Championship. Of course he's no Tim Krul, but there are very few Championship clubs who have two top quality keepers on their books. 

Yeah these are good points, potentially the GK situation would look different now were it not for COVID. I certainly would've expected it to have been the next area to address had we sold Cantwell / Buendia or even just getting Drmic / Leitner off of the wage bill.

However, I do think I would've favoured the signing of a superior back up keeper over some of our other signings. I know we are now amidst an injury crisis but our team is very lopsided in its entirety and if you look at that strength in depth we have in the front 6 positions (attackers and midfielders) it really brings how bare bones we are in goal and at left back into perspective!

I agree I would not expect to have two quality keepers, but I do think there is a happier middle ground to be had - I would quite like to see Barden given a go based on what I have seen of him previously but that in itself has its own longer term risks attached to it! 

Either way, it is what it is now, let's just hope we can ride out the next several weeks.

[Michael Starr 522]

I'd rather see Bryan Gunn back between the sticks than Camp.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,184]

34 minutes ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Yeah these are good points, potentially the GK situation would look different now were it not for COVID. I certainly would've expected it to have been the next area to address had we sold Cantwell / Buendia or even just getting Drmic / Leitner off of the wage bill.

However, I do think I would've favoured the signing of a superior back up keeper over some of our other signings. I know we are now amidst an injury crisis but our team is very lopsided in its entirety and if you look at that strength in depth we have in the front 6 positions (attackers and midfielders) it really brings how bare bones we are in goal and at left back into perspective!

I agree I would not expect to have two quality keepers, but I do think there is a happier middle ground to be had - I would quite like to see Barden given a go based on what I have seen of him previously but that in itself has its own longer term risks attached to it! 

Either way, it is what it is now, let's just hope we can ride out the next several weeks.

Completely agree about hoping we can ride out the next few weeks. McGovern did make a decent save from the Baath header and also came and confidently took a couple of high balls near the end to ease the pressure so he's definitely no mug. 

Also I think that by keeping him as our number 2 this season there is an element of us waiting for our next generation of goalies to come through. We've got tons of them! Oxborough is well thought of (but unfortunately out at the moment with a ruptured achilles), Barden is our current first team Number 3, Archie Mair is doing very well on loan at Kings Lynn, Jon McCracken is doing well in the U23s and our U18 goalie Joe Rose has just signed a 5 year contract with the club so they obviously rate him. 

[TheGunnShow 6,029]

3 hours ago, Hank shoots Skyler said:

Sure he deserves heaps and heaps of credit overall (he is probably my favourite manager we have had in my lifetime), but entering the season with one specialist LB is not a tactical masterstroke... it is Sorenson that deserves the credit for doing so well in a position he has never played in nor was expecting to - it just as easily could've gone very wrong however. And for all his defensive qualities we definitely miss having a specialist player on that side who can hug the touchline and get crosses in the box / open up the play centrally. We look very narrow at times.

Is the decision to have McGovern as our back up keeper also tactical genius? Based on his performances for us (and there have been plenty enough), would you not personally prefer us to have a keeper who looks a bit more comfortable doing the basics? Someone who can play out from the back (at least a little) and show a bit more aerially in the box? No one is expecting someone else to compete for Krul but plainly there is a huge gap between the two which easily could've been filled with a superior back up IMO.  

If you don't think we should've signed one then that's fine - but I think its a valid concern to have as we go into our next games.

I'd argue our narrowness in possession on occasion is a major factor why we have a far better defensive record in the division this time out compared to the previous season in the Championship. Yes, it looks exciting with both full-backs bombing on and it does keep the pressure on when possession sticks, but boy, were we vulnerable to counter-attacks!

There's a cogent argument that having a less attack-minded player at full-back, or in this case a midfielder bailing out there (but there is a caveat here that Sorensen has played centre-half before) really frees Aarons up on the other side. Chuck in a speedster on the left flank (hello, Messrs Bamba, Placheta, Hernandez) and we can fluidly switch to three centre-halves pretty damned instantaneously.

[Mello Yello 2,306]

Should have press-ganged Angus Gunn at Stoke and smuggled him onto the club's chartered jet back to Norwich last night.....

 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,184]

14 minutes ago, Mello Yello said:

Should have press-ganged Angus Gunn at Stoke and smuggled him onto the club's chartered jet back to Norwich last night.....

 

Since he's currently injured he would have fitted in very well..........................

[Mello Yello 2,306]

4 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Since he's currently injured he would have fitted in very well..........................

Future reference....Time heals wounds......

[Terminally Yellow 2,485]

You don't sign a new player for a six week injury.

[Mello Yello 2,306]

3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

You don't sign a new player for a six week injury.

Yah absolutely....yah I agree yah......

[jaywick_canery 28]

Farke has done a number of things that has had me scratching my head and maintaining McGovern as number two to a potentially injury prone Tim Krul is one of them.

 

I reckon his luck has just run out on this one. We just have to hope he will be back between the posts very soon indeed.

[The Real Buh 3,486]

“I heard Max Aarons stepped on a piece of lego”

”HERES A LIST OF 400 FREE AGENTS AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW WHAT ARE YOU DOING WEBBER GET YOUR CHEQUEBOOK OUT IT WAS LEGO IT COULD BE TERMINAL”

[paul moy 235]

I've never forgotten the time we played QPR at home and Camp tried to dribble the ball out, was intercepted and we scored.  He was rubbish that day and I do not rate him at all.

[ron obvious 1,517]

 

 

Could be a terminal? Blimey that could do some damage

 

[hogesar 9,776]

11 minutes ago, jaywick_canery said:

Farke has done a number of things that has had me scratching my head and maintaining McGovern as number two to a potentially injury prone Tim Krul is one of them.

 

I reckon his luck has just run out on this one. We just have to hope he will be back between the posts very soon indeed.

Yeah sounds about right. Farkes success and decision making is just down to luck.

[Dr Greenthumb 751]

We won’t sign a free transfer out of the window,  nice to dream though.

[seanthecanary 168]

12 hours ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

We won’t sign a free transfer out of the window,  nice to dream though.

Signing Lee Camp is a dream?  The guy has been released by his last 7 clubs including us.  We didn't even want him as 3rd choice 7 years ago.

Edited November 26, 2020 by seanthecanary

[Dr Greenthumb 751]

20 minutes ago, seanthecanary said:

Signing Lee Camp is a dream?  The guy has been released by his last 7 clubs including us.  We didn't even want him as 3rd choice 7 years ago.

Just reading back to what I wrote, don’t remember typing “Lee Camp”

[Midlands Yellow 4,114]

Coventry might be after him too after a bad injury to their keeper last night.

[seanthecanary 168]

44 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

Just reading back to what I wrote, don’t remember typing “Lee Camp”

No but in my defence you do say that signing a free transfer would be a dream in a thread specifically about signing Lee Camp on a free transfer

[GenerationA47 762]

20 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

I think so, and there is certainly also he lack of physical presence. I should say, having seen the highlights now, that McGovern was fouled for that disallowed goal. The Stoke player did back into him. And you can see from the reaction of the Stoke player that he is not at all surprised to see it chalked off.

MM just shy of 6’3”

TK just shy of 6’4”

[Dr Greenthumb 751]

1 hour ago, seanthecanary said:

No but in my defence you do say that signing a free transfer would be a dream in a thread specifically about signing Lee Camp on a free transfer

A dream in the sense that we never do business like that. I would rather we went with Barden over Lee Camp!!!

[seanthecanary 168]

3 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

A dream in the sense that we never do business like that. I would rather we went with Barden over Lee Camp!!!

Same. I know he let in 3 against Luton but I don't remember him being at fault for any of them and played well enough 

[PurpleCanary 5,592]

1 hour ago, GenerationA47 said:

MM just shy of 6’3”

TK just shy of 6’4”

I know that's what some stats say but I don't believe it, not least because in pix of them together Krul is comfortably taller. These figures are not to be relied upon. Soccerway actually has McGovern as 3cms taller than Krul, which is plainly nonsense. But as said before it is not just height but presence, part of which is physical but part also psychological. Krul is a more dominating presence.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

On 25/11/2020 at 08:09, Feedthewolf said:

Orjan Nyland was released by Villa last month, he's still without a club. Big and imposing, could be worth a look.

He's just had surgery.