Grealish and Cantwell

[NeymarSmith 136]

Following all this anti Todd feeling, which may be seen to be fair after yh rumours we have heard through the summer window and him not playing recently, I have been thinking and looking at the similarities to him and Jack Grealish.

 

Similar styles of player, similar rapport with respective home fans (on of our own as such) and as of Todd's current stage to jack Grealish stage when villa were relegated, similar view of both current and potential ability from outside fans (and as it appears other clubs measured by interest in transfer window and England u21 squad call up)

Jack is 25 now. Todd 22. Both part of a relegated side. Villa were relegated in 2016 so give or take the same age for this to have happened.

At the time, I don't think Grealish was the main man at villa, although certainly loved by the fans (one of their own) and did show glimpses of being special. He produced 16 premier League appearances with one goal. Todd, by contrast had 37 apps and 6 goals.

The season following, Grealish had 31 appearances with five goals. Now, he was linked with moves away, he would of had his agent in his ear and maybe saw the pound signs. Also, Grealish has been a magnet for the press due to some tomfoolery. However, look at him now. Plaudits far and wide, dragged villa up two years ago and as important as ever to their side. All the time being loved by home support and despite the tomfoolery (putting it lightly) he is loved and supported by them. More importantly he delivers. 

So, do you think, if we get behind him, as maybe is our job as supporters, especially to one of our own, and to one as special as cantwell (who let's not forget done exceptional for ncfc last season in the premier League)  that he will flower and have the Grealish effect on us in a couple seasons time. If we give him the love and support, he will want to stay (or is atleast more likely) otherwise we will push him away! If say Norwich is even better for him than villa for Grealish as if I recall correctly the villa squad and vibe was toxic between squad and fan at the time!

Cantwell has upto now, produced better stats than Grealish appearance and goal return wise. He is in a team where the manager gives young players a chance to thrive. He should be at a club that supports his every move and let's some tomfoolery go - in return for his 100percent effort and ncfc attitude. Let's not give him reason to leave and I'm sure we will only benefit from this.

 

 

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

1 hour ago, NeymarSmith said:

Re: Grealish and Cantwell.

"Following all this anti Todd feeling ...."

Is it widespread?  I had thought it being just from a motley collection of scrofulous and ageing country hicks, the likes of which inhabit this forum from time to time.

Todd will eventually become a big name in the game. He might even play for his country one day.

This won't happen while he is at Norwich City though, especially as he still has quite a bit of maturity to realise.

Edited November 6, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[Pugin 601]

29 minutes ago, NeymarSmith said:

Following all this anti Todd feeling, which may be seen to be fair after yh rumours we have heard through the summer window and him not playing recently, I have been thinking and looking at the similarities to him and Jack Grealish.

 

Similar styles of player, similar rapport with respective home fans (on of our own as such) and as of Todd's current stage to jack Grealish stage when villa were relegated, similar view of both current and potential ability from outside fans (and as it appears other clubs measured by interest in transfer window and England u21 squad call up)

Jack is 25 now. Todd 22. Both part of a relegated side. Villa were relegated in 2016 so give or take the same age for this to have happened.

At the time, I don't think Grealish was the main man at villa, although certainly loved by the fans (one of their own) and did show glimpses of being special. He produced 16 premier League appearances with one goal. Todd, by contrast had 37 apps and 6 goals.

The season following, Grealish had 31 appearances with five goals. Now, he was linked with moves away, he would of had his agent in his ear and maybe saw the pound signs. Also, Grealish has been a magnet for the press due to some tomfoolery. However, look at him now. Plaudits far and wide, dragged villa up two years ago and as important as ever to their side. All the time being loved by home support and despite the tomfoolery (putting it lightly) he is loved and supported by them. More importantly he delivers. 

So, do you think, if we get behind him, as maybe is our job as supporters, especially to one of our own, and to one as special as cantwell (who let's not forget done exceptional for ncfc last season in the premier League)  that he will flower and have the Grealish effect on us in a couple seasons time. If we give him the love and support, he will want to stay (or is atleast more likely) otherwise we will push him away! If say Norwich is even better for him than villa for Grealish as if I recall correctly the villa squad and vibe was toxic between squad and fan at the time!

Cantwell has upto now, produced better stats than Grealish appearance and goal return wise. He is in a team where the manager gives young players a chance to thrive. He should be at a club that supports his every move and let's some tomfoolery go - in return for his 100percent effort and ncfc attitude. Let's not give him reason to leave and I'm sure we will only benefit from this.

 

 

No offence intended, but I think you are over-thinking this. And you are certainly over-wording it 🙂

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

2 minutes ago, Pugin said:

No offence intended, but I think you are over-thinking this. And you are certainly over-wording it 🙂

It's the Todd Cantwell effect wot does it.

Has he become a bit of a 'marmite' character?

Even Donald Trump's divisiveness pales into insignificance when compared to the effect that this young man has on the various factions of  support of Norwich City Football Club, it would seem.

[Indy 3,477]

Grealish is a class above Cantwell at the moment and although both appear to be prima donnas, Grealish puts the effort in at training always has and improved himself.

If Cantwell can emulate Grealish then certainly could be an exceptional talent, it’s up to Cantwell to stop being a Trump and focus on his career, social media is detrimental to some people, can be a game changer.

My advise would be to withdraw from Twitter stop posting tripe and get on with what he’s very good at, football.

[hogesar 10,779]

2 minutes ago, Indy said:

Grealish is a class above Cantwell at the moment and although both appear to be prima donnas, Grealish puts the effort in at training always has and improved himself.

If Cantwell can emulate Grealish then certainly could be an exceptional talent, it’s up to Cantwell to stop being a Trump and focus on his career, social media is detrimental to some people, can be a game changer.

My advise would be to withdraw from Twitter stop posting tripe and get on with what he’s very good at, football.

We don't know that, Grealish has been in the news for more non-football related negative things than Todd ever has.

The difference is Villa fans absolutely love one of their own making the first team where as, for some reason, our fans like to treat them more harshly.

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

16 minutes ago, Indy said:

Grealish is a class above Cantwell at the moment and although both appear to be prima donnas, Grealish puts the effort in at training always has and improved himself.

If Cantwell can emulate Grealish then certainly could be an exceptional talent, it’s up to Cantwell to stop being a Trump and focus on his career, social media is detrimental to some people, can be a game changer.

My advise would be to withdraw from Twitter stop posting tripe and get on with what he’s very good at, football.

It's easy to flip that around though, isn't it? If we, as fans, all took your advice and ignored his Social Media and concentrated on what he is very good at, football, we'd probably see a more balanced assessment of his capabilities.

 

As it is we have a load of middle-aged blokes getting in a tizz because he's taken a selfie with his top off or worn gloves or an alice band...😄 

 

I do find it amusing how triggered people get about him, makes me wonder if some of it is deliberate. Just need him to turn up to Colney in a sarong and I think the PinkUn would finally melt...

[The Real Buh 3,765]

Don’t forget the similar sock game they both have as well

[chicken 3,088]

42 minutes ago, Indy said:

My advise would be to withdraw from Twitter stop posting tripe and get on with what he’s very good at, football.

This would have been great advice 15+ years ago, but now, it's part of every day life.

Just like Rooney when he was younger, a certain amount is also on the club for helping players find the best outlets for their feelings and thoughts. There are many players that do the same, Sterling, for example as well as Rashford etc.

The main difference is that the are a large section of our fans who seem to think you have to be 6'3" and built like a brick out house and have a "mans" haircut before you can even start to be considered a "classy player". They are also not of an age that are used to seeing public figures trying to be so philosophical or honest. It's that old fashioned British thing of stiff upper lip, don't talk about your feelings, bottle them up, keep them to yourself, show no pain, show no fear sort of mentality.

Hence the likes of "uncle" who uses "woke" to try and insult folks. 

[rock bus 1,066]

I actually think the OP makes quite a valid point.

The main difference for me is that Grealish seems to really love Villa, as a result he has proudly taken on the role of being their talisman and continually shows his pride and loyalty to the club. It is therefore no surprise that Villa fans are equally in love with him.

I may be wrong but I just don't get the impression Cantwell does have the same 'love for Norwich? There seems more a sense that whilst he is grateful to the club, his main priority is himself and how well he is doing. There's certainly a sense that he is looking to move on to bigger and better things. I don't know if Norwich is 'his club' was he actually a fan since childhood or did he grow up in the area, support Man U/Liverpool etc and just end up playing for us? 

There's not necessarily anything wrong with any of that as long as he continues to perform for us but equally it does mean he wont get the same level of love back from the fans and hence a more critical approach

[Duncan Edwards 2,424]

2 minutes ago, rock bus said:

I actually think the OP makes quite a valid point.

The main difference for me is that Grealish seems to really love Villa, as a result he has proudly taken on the role of being their talisman and continually shows his pride and loyalty to the club. It is therefore no surprise that Villa fans are equally in love with him.

I may be wrong but I just don't get the impression Cantwell does have the same 'love for Norwich? There seems more a sense that whilst he is grateful to the club, his main priority is himself and how well he is doing. There's certainly a sense that he is looking to move on to bigger and better things. I don't know if Norwich is 'his club' was he actually a fan since childhood or did he grow up in the area, support Man U/Liverpool etc and just end up playing for us? 

There's not necessarily anything wrong with any of that as long as he continues to perform for us but equally it does mean he wont get the same level of love back from the fans and hence a more critical approach

Arsenal fan I think

[The Real Buh 3,765]

7 minutes ago, chicken said:

This would have been great advice 15+ years ago, but now, it's part of every day life.

Just like Rooney when he was younger, a certain amount is also on the club for helping players find the best outlets for their feelings and thoughts. There are many players that do the same, Sterling, for example as well as Rashford etc.

The main difference is that the are a large section of our fans who seem to think you have to be 6'3" and built like a brick out house and have a "mans" haircut before you can even start to be considered a "classy player". They are also not of an age that are used to seeing public figures trying to be so philosophical or honest. It's that old fashioned British thing of stiff upper lip, don't talk about your feelings, bottle them up, keep them to yourself, show no pain, show no fear sort of mentality.

Hence the likes of "uncle" who uses "woke" to try and insult folks. 

Watch “the social dilemma”

social media is evil 

[chicken 3,088]

2 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

Watch “the social dilemma”

social media is evil 

Yeah, same as Dungeons and Dragons would lead kids to hell. Everything is evil if you want them to be. However, it doesn't detract from the fact it is part and parcel of daily life for hundreds of millions of people.

And as said elsewhere but Nutty, you can't tell people to stop using it when, you know, you also have to be using it to be able to access the content you are then moaning about. Hypocritical.

Edited November 6, 2020 by chicken

[The Real Buh 3,765]

Just now, chicken said:

Yeah, same as Dungeons and Dragons would lead kids to hell. Everything is evil if you want them to be. However, it doesn't detract from the fact it is part and parcel of daily life for hundreds of millions of people.

Hundreds of millions of idiots

dungeons and dragons doesnt have the worlds most powerful supercomputers behind it

[chicken 3,088]

Just now, The Real Buh said:

Hundreds of millions of idiots

dungeons and dragons doesnt have the worlds most powerful supercomputers behind it

[The Real Buh 3,765]

Just now, chicken said:

Oh yeah, I’ve got such a crazy, out there opinion that it’s been made into a documentary you can watch on Netflix right now.

You could quit social media any time, right? Yeah, course you could. Right?

[chicken 3,088]

Documentaries nearly always have their own bias.

The way I see it, social media is taking over the likes of printed press and other traditional news platforms like TV and radio. The difficulty and danger at the moment is the reliability of the information put out by it.

However, that is absolutely nothing new. ALL platforms lie, bend the truth and present the story they want you to see. Even now the Sun will not apologise for their damaging lies on Hillsborough. Why? Because apologies don't sell papers. Phone hacking does. And despite all of that people still buy it. So when you talk about dangers, the reality is it is all dangerous.

The answer is always in education. It only takes a brief glance at the US elections to know that the lack of decent education leaves people being too trusting of information from any source. The truth is about listening to more than one source and trying to find the story in the middle.

In this instance, it has nothing to do with Todd. He's just using a platform. You can have a strong distrust of the platform and your personal opinion may well be to not use it, but you cannot judge anyone else for choosing to. Just the same as you may not eat McDonald's, people make their own choices. 

[The Real Buh 3,765]

5 minutes ago, chicken said:

Documentaries nearly always have their own bias.

The way I see it, social media is taking over the likes of printed press and other traditional news platforms like TV and radio. The difficulty and danger at the moment is the reliability of the information put out by it.

However, that is absolutely nothing new. ALL platforms lie, bend the truth and present the story they want you to see. Even now the Sun will not apologise for their damaging lies on Hillsborough. Why? Because apologies don't sell papers. Phone hacking does. And despite all of that people still buy it. So when you talk about dangers, the reality is it is all dangerous.

The answer is always in education. It only takes a brief glance at the US elections to know that the lack of decent education leaves people being too trusting of information from any source. The truth is about listening to more than one source and trying to find the story in the middle.

In this instance, it has nothing to do with Todd. He's just using a platform. You can have a strong distrust of the platform and your personal opinion may well be to not use it, but you cannot judge anyone else for choosing to. Just the same as you may not eat McDonald's, people make their own choices. 

I massively judge people that use social media. It’s the 21st centuries smoking and needs to be regulated as such.

the documentary is filled with engineers from google and Facebook and Twitter and Instagram who tell you all about the functions they’ve inbuilt that make them nefarious.

The owners of these social media companies, they don’t let their kids use social media. What does that tell you?

 

edit: the pinkun is not social media, it’s an ancient messageboard. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by The Real Buh

[NFN FC 1,142]

I've just had a scan through Todd's Instagram and I don't find much wrong with the lad. Yeah he's a bit of a vein one but nothing different to many young chaps in their 20s. 

In comparison to Grealish who has actually done bad things, he's a good egg. 

We should all get behind him and support him! 

[Uncle Fred 526]

Talent wise there is no comparison Aston Villa have a real talent and we have a self obsessed bell end 

[Surfer 1,547]

Cantwell is not (yet) in the same class as Grealish. But as to fans not getting behind him the answer is simple, if he puts a shift in, scores some goals and stops giving away silly possession they will. The answer to the OP’s question is in his hands. 

Edited November 6, 2020 by Surfer

[Canary Jedi 611]

We all have our ups and downs. I can’t wait for him to be back in the side

[NeymarSmith 136]

54 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Cantwell is not (yet) in the same class as Grealish. But as to fans not getting behind him the answer is simple, if he puts a shift in, scores some goals and stops giving away silly possession they will. The answer to question is in his hands. 

Indeed, yet being the main word. Agreed Todd isn't at that level yet but my op was mainly pointing out we should stick by him and support him! Yes, he has to repay that faith but do you not feel, even from just some on here that there is an under current of wanting him to fail?

@Uncle Fred - far too far mate, come on. He doesn't deserve that. Imagine if that was your lad, are you being fair?

@Pugin cheers for your input. It would be more strangeif I simply put - can we be nice to Todd he might do well later in his career. All the offence taken by the way 😉

[Surfer 1,547]

Well of course there is some unfair criticism, there always will be - Uncle Fred for example is a serial nay sayer (perhaps for fun) - but Todd needs some really good performances to get the majority back on-side. Emi has, Pukki has, Rupp has, and Todd outperformed all of them during the shutdown. I’ve been a big proponent of Todd, but he’s currently going through a poor performance patch and I hope he can quickly work through it. 

[Indy 3,477]

4 hours ago, Duncan Edwards said:

It's easy to flip that around though, isn't it? If we, as fans, all took your advice and ignored his Social Media and concentrated on what he is very good at, football, we'd probably see a more balanced assessment of his capabilities.

 

As it is we have a load of middle-aged blokes getting in a tizz because he's taken a selfie with his top off or worn gloves or an alice band...😄 

 

I do find it amusing how triggered people get about him, makes me wonder if some of it is deliberate. Just need him to turn up to Colney in a sarong and I think the PinkUn would finally melt...

Dunc, I totally agree some fans are total a holes in what they’ve said, but I was alluding to Webber and Farkes comments about his social media use which must have had a poor impact. Fans are fans but professional footballer has to be a little more professional in what he posts. Everyone who works does!

As for Grealish my cousin lives in Stourbridge and is a Villa ticket holder, he says like Ronaldo Grealish is the last off the training pitch, he loves to practice his free kicks and dead ball kicks. Just saying if Cantwell put his focus in himself he’d be a brilliant player.

[ron obvious 1,711]

3 hours ago, Uncle Fred said:

Talent wise there is no comparison Aston Villa have a real talent and we have a self obsessed bell end 

I dunno. I'd have said you're more of an ignorant conceited ar$ehole.

[Nuff Said 5,973]

6 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

I dunno. I'd have said you're more of an ignorant conceited ar$ehole.

Beat me to it Ron! 🤣

[Nuff Said 5,973]

4 hours ago, rock bus said:

I actually think the OP makes quite a valid point.

The main difference for me is that Grealish seems to really love Villa, as a result he has proudly taken on the role of being their talisman and continually shows his pride and loyalty to the club. It is therefore no surprise that Villa fans are equally in love with him.

I may be wrong but I just don't get the impression Cantwell does have the same 'love for Norwich? There seems more a sense that whilst he is grateful to the club, his main priority is himself and how well he is doing. There's certainly a sense that he is looking to move on to bigger and better things. I don't know if Norwich is 'his club' was he actually a fan since childhood or did he grow up in the area, support Man U/Liverpool etc and just end up playing for us? 

There's not necessarily anything wrong with any of that as long as he continues to perform for us but equally it does mean he wont get the same level of love back from the fans and hence a more critical approach

You talk about “impressions” and “sensing” but have you actually any evidence that “his main priority is himself and how well he is doing”? Which to be fair is ultimately true about most of us.

 

tl;dr - source?

[sgncfc 1,332]

I think the OP raises a decent point. Grealish has matured (a little) into a very decent player who influences almost every game he appears in. Can Cantwell do that? Not sure. I don't think his social media presence is at all relevant. He needs to show on the pitch how influential he can be. It may be that his ego took a hit when no one came in for him despite his agents apparent work to make it happen, and at 22, knuckling down to prove yourself with hard work and commitment certainly wasn't top of my list.

I trust Farke to understand him and his motivations. When he gets picked I expect him to give everything. If he doesn't, not only will he not turn into Grealish, he will end up in League Two on loan.

[NorthCarolinaYellow 199]

Similar situations between the two, perhaps, but two very different players. We will be over the moon if Cantwell turns out to be anywhere near as good as Grealish, which pains me to say as I do fairly hate him.