What can we learn from Norwich City’s relegation nosedive?

[Norwich R Us 59]

"Swallowing relegation for the greater good is a damning reflection of what modern football has become"

Interesting view from the outside on our plight and the future:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/norwich-city-news-relegation-todd-cantwell-daniel-farke-epl-table-a9603081.html

[lake district canary 4,836]

"They are ninth in the league for passes both attempted and completed (80 per cent on the latter) and are 11th for chances created from open play. The football has been consistent with last term’s values of flow."

Says a lot. Quality of play generally good for mid table and equivalent chances converted would have offset the defensive lapses and given us more points.  

 

 

[Alex Moss 2,167]

4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

"They are ninth in the league for passes both attempted and completed (80 per cent on the latter) and are 11th for chances created from open play. The football has been consistent with last term’s values of flow."

Says a lot. Quality of play generally good for mid table and equivalent chances converted would have offset the defensive lapses and given us more points.  

 

 

Second behind Man City for hitting the woodwork too, Lakey. Oh what could have been...

[lake district canary 4,836]

19 minutes ago, Alex Moss said:

Second behind Man City for hitting the woodwork too, Lakey. Oh what could have been...

Indeed, fine margins.

[Making Plans 957]

7 hours ago, lake district canary said:

"They are ninth in the league for passes both attempted and completed (80 per cent on the latter)"

What it doesn't say is that most of those passes were in our own half of the pitch and went backwards or sideways or that most of the 20% of passes that were not completed gifted a goal to the opposition and we lost the game.

Once you start believing rubbish like that then you're really in trouble.

No matter how you try and dress up what has been an miserable season, the only relevant stats are that we have only scored 25 goals, let in 61, managed to win 5 games and managed to avoid defeat in only one third of the games played.

Anything else is irrelevant.

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Making Plans

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

And how many of those sideways and backward passes are included in the statistics of the eight teams above us?

Slow, safe build up is the order of the day now, as ever. The extreme alternative is "hoof ball," and who wants that?

Mainly we were good at it and it led to some attractive football when it produced a finished article.The problem was that it was executed carelessly on a regular basis leaving us wide open to counter attack.

Farke learns, he will learn from this season that small mistakes are regularly punished in a big way at Premier League level by multi million pound strikers who often appear to contribute little, but always come up with the goods given the slightest chance.Eg. The Brighton game.

 

The naivety of the club's defensive approach/signings will not go unnoticed. 

 

And I'd bite any club's hand off that offered £25m + add ons for Ben Godfrey. I thought he was brilliant against Man.U.in the cup, but has often lacked that something which cannot be put down to simple inexperience.

Time he ditched this Rio Ferdinand re-incarnation tag as well. Rio was a better all-round defender by some distance.

Edited July 7, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[Midlands Yellow 4,682]

I’d have a look at our points on the board and goal difference before suggesting what bad luck we have had. 

[Capt. Pants 5,018]

We started the season brightly carrying on from the previous one. Over the season we seem to have lost our identity and our purpose and developed this rather peculiar sideways sideways back back style of play. 

Lack of confidence, opposing teams tactics, lack of quality in midfield some of the reasons. I hope we get back to proper Farkeball next season.

[BroadstairsR 2,273]

14 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

We started the season brightly carrying on from the previous one. Over the season we seem to have lost our identity and our purpose and developed this rather peculiar sideways sideways back back style of play. 

Lack of confidence, opposing teams tactics, lack of quality in midfield some of the reasons. I hope we get back to proper Farkeball next season.

We'd been doing pretty well before the lockdown. We beat Leicester and Spurs and lost (narrowly) to Sheff.U.in a game I feel we deserved something from.

The fact that we came back badly after the lockdown would have been nothing to do with lack of confidence, although it's clearly become a factor.

The sideways and backwards style of play has always been a part of "Farkeball." I remember when we won 1.0 at Millwall (?) thinking this to be frustrating. Pukki scored with his chest and McClaren screamed injustice  ..., was it Millwall?

Edited July 7, 2020 by BroadstairsR

[dylanisabaddog 6,149]

We should have learnt that if you give the ball away when you shouldn't you invariably concede a goal. 

We should also have learnt that our players as a whole are not strong enough or big enough to survive the Premier League. Manchester City can get away with it but we're just not good enough

[Capt. Pants 5,018]

2 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

We'd been doing pretty well before the lockdown. We beat Leicester and Spurs and lost (narrowly) to Sheff.U.in a game I feel we deserved something from.

The fact that we came back badly after the lockdown would have been nothing to do with lack of confidence, although it's clearly become a factor.

Yeah just the lack of creativity I guess, not too mention the lack of mobility from our strikers. Pukki's injury also a factor.

 

[Terminally Yellow 2,614]

I think picking up on one line about passes and other statistics are missing the point of this article. The point is NCFC are looking at the long term. If we go down and come back up in one or two years time, we will come back the stronger for this experience 

It's not really a point that can console me over just how bad this year has been and the big if is bouncing back - it's far easier said than done! - but it is the mantra I think the club want us to hold on to right now. 

[Making Plans 957]

In the interest of balance, here are a few more stats to ponder

Crosses - 20th

Clean Sheets - 19th

Goals - 20th

Goals from inside the box - 20th

Goals from outside the box - 17th

Wins - 20th

Corners won - 17th

Headed goals - 19th

Goals from free kick - we didn't register as we scored none

Goals from counter attack - ditto

Last man tackles - 20th

 

Not surprisingly though -

Loses - 1st

Blocks - 2nd

Clearances - 3rd

Backwards passes - 5th

Saves - 4th

 

[hogesar 10,774]

The stat about hitting the post more than any team other than Man City is frustrating, because it's such a fine margin thing.

And you can understand Man City doing it alot because they create so many chances. The fact we are second in that table, with the next teams being Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea kind of put that into perspective.

Even if only half of those had been goals that would be an extra 8 goals which in certain matches could have got us anywhere between 6-12 extra points potentially.

It's been disappointing since the restart but for most of the season it's been clear we werent massively far away. Maybe the injury luck? Or slightly better recruitment, could have been enough to just see us over the line.

[lake district canary 4,836]

1 hour ago, Making Plans said:

What it doesn't say is that most of those passes were in our own half of the pitch and went backwards or sideways or that most of the 20% of passes that were not completed gifted a goal to the opposition and we lost the game.

Once you start believing rubbish like that then you're really in trouble.

😄 Talk about selective reading - the whole quote was -

"They are ninth in the league for passes both attempted and completed (80 per cent on the latter) and are 11th for chances created from open play"  

....which kind of changes the perspective, wouldn't you say? 

[FenwayFrank 2,717]

54 minutes ago, BroadstairsR said:

We'd been doing pretty well before the lockdown. We beat Leicester and Spurs and lost (narrowly) to Sheff.U.in a game I feel we deserved something from.

The fact that we came back badly after the lockdown would have been nothing to do with lack of confidence, although it's clearly become a factor.

The sideways and backwards style of play has always been a part of "Farkeball." I remember when we won 1.0 at Millwall (?) thinking this to be frustrating. Pukki scored with his chest and McClaren screamed injustice  ..., was it Millwall?

QPR

[Making Plans 957]

37 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

😄 Talk about selective reading - the whole quote was -

"They are ninth in the league for passes both attempted and completed (80 per cent on the latter) and are 11th for chances created from open play"  

....which kind of changes the perspective, wouldn't you say? 

Selective?

Well I see you have choosen just 2 stats and I've highlighted 16.

So who is it that is really being selective and where are the rest of yours to level things up?

Pretty sure that Wilder is not gnashing his teeth or wringing his hands because Sheff Utd are below us in completed passes or chances created.

 

 

 

 

[TIL 1010 5,246]

1 hour ago, Making Plans said:

In the interest of balance, here are a few more stats to ponder

Crosses - 20th

Clean Sheets - 19th

Goals - 20th

Goals from inside the box - 20th

Goals from outside the box - 17th

Wins - 20th

Corners won - 17th

Headed goals - 19th

Goals from free kick - we didn't register as we scored none

Goals from counter attack - ditto

Last man tackles - 20th

 

Not surprisingly though -

Loses - 1st

Blocks - 2nd

Clearances - 3rd

Backwards passes - 5th

Saves - 4th

 

That is uncomfortable to read MP.

[king canary 8,763]

9 hours ago, lake district canary said:

"They are ninth in the league for passes both attempted and completed (80 per cent on the latter) and are 11th for chances created from open play. The football has been consistent with last term’s values of flow."

Says a lot. Quality of play generally good for mid table and equivalent chances converted would have offset the defensive lapses and given us more points.  

 

 

Those stats have absolutely nothing to do with chance creation or conversion though? So I have no idea how you make that leap.

According to Understat, our Xg for the season would still have made us the third lowest scorers of the season, which doesn't suggest if we'd have just converted a bit better that we'd have made up for the defensive lapses. 

[SplatCat 18]

In lambert’s first season in the PL we let in 66 goals. This season 61. Not too dissimilar.

[vlad666 207]

Goals from counter attacks zero. That’s stat is very telling. I think only Hernandez has any pace about him from our attacking players. It makes it so easy to defend against. This definitely needs to be addressed next season. 

[Feedthewolf 5,885]

Just now, vlad666 said:

Goals from counter attacks zero. That’s stat is very telling. I think only Hernandez has any pace about him from our attacking players. It makes it so easy to defend against. This definitely needs to be addressed next season. 

Lewis and particularly Aarons add pace as overlapping full-backs.

You could understand us not scoring many counter-attacking goals in the Championship where we're one of the big fish and teams tend to sit deep against us, but considering the amount of pressure we've been under in the Prem, not to score a single counter-attacking goal all season is a huge concern.

[lake district canary 4,836]

Good grief, save us from stats.  And Xg is about as useful as a paper hat in the rain. You can prove whatever you want to with stats, I'll take the one that say we were 11th in the chance making department. Seems reasonable to me.

[king canary 8,763]

4 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Good grief, save us from stats.  And Xg is about as useful as a paper hat in the rain. You can prove whatever you want to with stats, I'll take the one that say we were 11th in the chance making department. Seems reasonable to me.

So what this translates as is...

'I'll highlight stats that agree with my view but dismiss those that show something else.'

[lake district canary 4,836]

4 minutes ago, king canary said:

So what this translates as is...

'I'll highlight stats that agree with my view but dismiss those that show something else.'

Dwell on the positive stats and you tend to see something positive.

Dwell on the negative stats and you tend to see something negative.

Don't dwell on the positives or negatives and just look at stats coldly and you see nothing.

Human nature in a nutshell.

Edited July 7, 2020 by lake district canary

[Canary Wundaboy 1,423]

39 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Good grief, save us from stats.  And Xg is about as useful as a paper hat in the rain. You can prove whatever you want to with stats, I'll take the one that say we were 11th in the chance making department. Seems reasonable to me.

Come on Lakey, you can't open a thread and selectively highlight 2 stats to try and spin it positively, then throw a hissy fit when someone else rightly picks out 16 from the same article that throw a much harsher light on things. I'd say the 16 stats are much more indicative as to how this season has gone, and illustrate why we're rock bottom with our lowest points tally.

[lake district canary 4,836]

13 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Come on Lakey, you can't open a thread and selectively highlight 2 stats to try and spin it positively, then throw a hissy fit when someone else rightly picks out 16 from the same article that throw a much harsher light on things. I'd say the 16 stats are much more indicative as to how this season has gone, and illustrate why we're rock bottom with our lowest points tally.

The impression given by some people on here - and they are doing the same with stats - is that everything has been bad and that anything pointed out as actually being good cannot have any possible bearing on the issue.  Fine, if that is what people want to do, I would rather see the whole picture and that in some areas we HAVE been good enough. .

Edited July 7, 2020 by lake district canary

[Making Plans 957]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

The impression given by some people on here - and they are doing the same with stats - is that everything has been bad and that anything pointed out as actually being good cannot have any possible bearing on the issue.  Fine, if that is what people want to do, I would rather see the whole picture and that in some areas we HAVE been good enough. .

Still waiting for you to come up with more than 2 LDC

Oh, I know one - how about picking the ball out of the back of the net

[Making Plans 957]

1 hour ago, lake district canary said:

Dwell on the positive stats and you tend to see something positive.

Dwell on the negative stats and you tend to see something negative.

Don't dwell on the positives or negatives and just look at stats coldly and you see nothing.

Why not just forget about stats and base our opinions on what we have actually witnessed on the pitch and then, if still any doubt, consult the League table.

[lake district canary 4,836]

6 minutes ago, Making Plans said:

Still waiting for you to come up with more than 2 LDC

Oh, I know one - how about picking the ball out of the back of the net

Yep, dwell on the negatives, it's so much easier than trying to find something that is good about this season. I could name you twenty things that have been good about this season.......I'm not, because all you will do is change the goalposts and say all that matters is the league position.....

I could probably find twenty things bad to say too, but I lose interest when all people refuse to accept anything good has happened and all they can say is how bad we are, because that is only part of the story.