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Hardhouse44

What is it you realistically want, expect, and demand from your club

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3 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

I should be alright as i am in Nutty's Elite group of fans. 😂

You were, now you're in with my Fairweather fans 🤣

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6 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

You were, now you're in with my Fairweather fans 🤣

See you at Spurs next week then ?

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56 minutes ago, Jim Smith said:

@feedthewolf (quote function is playing up)

Well one reason might be if as an owner you realised that you cannot sustain a premier league club and that your ownership is holding the club back and there was someone else in the wings who was prepared to put serious money into the club. 

If there was someone in the wings with that amount of money, who was that serious about buying the club, I'm sure they'd be able to pay the going rate... or at least something more than 'peanuts'. But anyway, we're talking about hypothetical investors investing hypothetical sums of money. For the reasons I've already mentioned, I don't think we are likely to attract serious offers of significant investment due to us already being relatively close to our 'ceiling' in terms of achievement and financial security.

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36 minutes ago, TIL 1010 said:

See you at Spurs next week then ?

No, Spurs isnt for the likes of me. 🙃

It's all worked out well otherwise though because anyone who has wanted to go away has been able to🙃

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5 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Not like you to twist a joke . 

The twist could be a joke too. Anyone can claim that...

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18 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

If there was someone in the wings with that amount of money, who was that serious about buying the club, I'm sure they'd be able to pay the going rate... or at least something more than 'peanuts'. But anyway, we're talking about hypothetical investors investing hypothetical sums of money. For the reasons I've already mentioned, I don't think we are likely to attract serious offers of significant investment due to us already being relatively close to our 'ceiling' in terms of achievement and financial security.

Indeed. And if a serious investor was blocked we'd surely know about it.

Last I heard all this was in Webber's domain.

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3 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Indeed. And if a serious investor was blocked we'd surely know about it.

Last I heard all this was in Webber's domain.

How would we know about it? They don't share everything with the fans. 

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4 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

How would we know about it? They don't share everything with the fans. 

If a serious investor was blocked then I'd hazard a guess their next move would be to let the media know. 

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2 hours ago, Feedthewolf said:

The clubs I mentioned have very low income streams because they're in League One. With a bit of investment, they could potentially get the club back to the Prem and all the riches that entails. We were at our most attractive to buy when we were in League One, and are at our least attractive as an investment proposition right about now.

I’d say we are at our most attractive now, the infrastructure is in place to build on, playing Man C and teams of that level weekly. I get what you are saying, the thing is, it’s hard to go from League one to the prem and with FFP in place aswell, they may just want to cut out the grind and get their name on the advertising boards for the sky cameras

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I would like the team to do their best every match and play together as a team . The club to respect the support they get and do the best for the fans 

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2 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If a serious investor was blocked then I'd hazard a guess their next move would be to let the media know. 

It shouldn't be too hard, with modern technology, to know by either facial recognition  or satnav tracking etc to know the bank balance of anyone passing within say,  500 m of Carrow rd. If they are suitably doshed up , then Tom could be sent out, the Carrow Barrow Boy , if you like, to sell the Club  to them.  Easy!!

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3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If a serious investor was blocked then I'd hazard a guess their next move would be to let the media know. 

Yep, there are ways to go about it but if it did happen the news would leak from the club like a sieve anyway.

But as the @Feedthewolf keeps writing the club is at the top end of its value at the moment which prices most investors out. I seem to recall Tony Bloom saying it cost him £200 million to get Brighton to where they are which gives some idea of the sums you are looking at. Who is going to pay that to come to Norwich? Who is going to splash that level of cash when one bad season puts it all at risk?

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33 minutes ago, Greavsy said:

How would we know about it? They don't share everything with the fans. 

If you were a mega rich business person used to getting your way and you tried to buy Norwich City and were blocked would you just keep quiet about it? 

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So, just to be quite clear, are there people on this message board who would be quite happy to see the club fall into the ownership of new investors who have no love of the club and no affiliation with the club?

In other words, investors whose interest is what they can get out of the club, not what they can put in?

 

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17 minutes ago, Pugin said:

So, just to be quite clear, are there people on this message board who would be quite happy to see the club fall into the ownership of new investors who have no love of the club and no affiliation with the club?

In other words, investors whose interest is what they can get out of the club, not what they can put in?

 

So much of it hinges on how you define 'investor' doesn't it Pugin? Usually we think of an investor as someone who puts money into something with the aim of making a return on that money. However, if you look at someone like Abrahamovich at Chelsea it appears that he's just put in loads of cash and hasn't made any return on it (at least as it stands at the moment). 

I think that a lot of our fans who are saying they want 'an investor' are talking about the latter rather than the former. 

As the old joke goes: "How do you make a small fortune out of owning a football club? Start with a large one!" 

Edited by Thirsty Lizard

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55 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If a serious investor was blocked then I'd hazard a guess their next move would be to let the media know. 

It depends if that investor is serious about buying a football club or buying this football club.

It is quite common to see articles after the event saying 'owner x considered buying clubs x, y and z and decided on this one.' If you're someone looking to get into this market and you had a target list of clubs, would you really kick up a fuss if one said no but another was happy to discuss?

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5 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

So much of it hinges on how you define 'investor' doesn't it Pugin? Usually we think of an investor as someone who puts money into something with the aim of making a return on that money. However, if you look at someone like Abrahamovich at Chelsea it appears that he's just put in loads of cash and hasn't made any return on it (at least as it stands at the moment). 

I think that a lot of our fans who are saying they want 'an investor' are talking about the latter rather than the former. 

As the old joke goes: "How do you make a small fortune out of owning a football club? Start with a large one!" 

 

 

 

 

 

*I wrote this on another thread - looks like we've come to the same conclusion*

The level of spend required to stabilise Norwich in the Prem would rule out investment from anyone except those who want to use investment as an some kind of soft power exercise - which, given the geography and profile of the club and city, makes that extremely unlikely. 

I don't think the numbers stack very well for an investor looking to get a return (but more than happy to be shown to be wrong on this - finance isn't exactly my forte), so it leaves only those looking to gain alternative benefit from investment.

These people are generally looking for existing global brands, clubs in big cities or, in the case of Chinese investment in the Midlands, a foothold in an area known for logistics.

It's hard to see how Norwich would ever fit into those plans.

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Money laundering. That’s the only potential advantage to “investing” very large sums of money in Norwich City FC based on where we are, and our profile. 

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6 minutes ago, kirku said:

 

*I wrote this on another thread - looks like we've come to the same conclusion*

The level of spend required to stabilise Norwich in the Prem would rule out investment from anyone except those who want to use investment as an some kind of soft power exercise - which, given the geography and profile of the club and city, makes that extremely unlikely. 

I don't think the numbers stack very well for an investor looking to get a return (but more than happy to be shown to be wrong on this - finance isn't exactly my forte), so it leaves only those looking to gain alternative benefit from investment.

These people are generally looking for existing global brands, clubs in big cities or, in the case of Chinese investment in the Midlands, a foothold in an area known for logistics.

It's hard to see how Norwich would ever fit into those plans.

So what is the benefit for Maxim Denim at Bournemouth? Or the two sets of rich owners who've ran Southampton in recent years?

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3 minutes ago, king canary said:

So what is the benefit for Maxim Denim at Bournemouth? Or the two sets of rich owners who've ran Southampton in recent years?

Maxim Denim paid only £850k for Bournemouth, which rather proves the point

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3 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Maxim Denim paid only £850k for Bournemouth, which rather proves the point

Does it? He seemingly had to spend quite a bit to take Bournemouth up and keep them up.

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48 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Who is going to pay that to come to Norwich? Who is going to splash that level of cash when one bad season puts it all at risk?

You stand little chance of getting a reply (of any sense anyway). 

1. The consensus of many of the "investor advocates" on here is that the amount of money we need is "enough." Nothing specific

2. They  caution us that the money has to be spent wisely, but without any explanation of how this objective is to be achieved and if it is so easy, why everybody doesn't spend it wisely?

3. They explain that it would lead to us becoming successful, like Leicester, carefully ignoring all the examples of other clubs that have tried, failed and have been left in the doldrums for years, even though there is an example less than 50 miles down the road.

4. They naively expect the "investor" to give us money - despite all the examples of investors lending it secured against the assets of the club.

5. They rarely acknowledge that the purpose of an investor is to take money out of the club, not put it in

6. They naively ignore the fact that Norwich would be an asset strippers paradise, unless we were sold for well over £100 million. Blooms £200 million would be nowhere near enough in today's inflated transfer market.

7. But I can tolerate their what I perceive as their naivety and lack of understanding, and understand that they are passionate fans who want the best for the club. What really irritates me, though, is that those of us, who feel that we have some degree of financial acumen are said to be less ambitious or passionate about the future of Norwich City. I don't want an external investor because it is more likely to impede our progress than help - unless we get a Bloom or Gibson. Failing this or a Sheikh or other mega-rich donor, a long term policy of building incrementally rather than thinking short-term has to be the best way forwards. 

I think it was Jim Morison who said, "We want the world and we want it now." Well in Norwich's case, I want the world too, but recognise that we might have to be patient, rather than looking for easy quick-hit solutions that are more likely to fail than succeed.

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30 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

So much of it hinges on how you define 'investor' doesn't it Pugin? Usually we think of an investor as someone who puts money into something with the aim of making a return on that money. However, if you look at someone like Abrahamovich at Chelsea it appears that he's just put in loads of cash and hasn't made any return on it (at least as it stands at the moment). 

I think that a lot of our fans who are saying they want 'an investor' are talking about the latter rather than the former. 

As the old joke goes: "How do you make a small fortune out of owning a football club? Start with a large one!" 

 

 

 

 

To the Russians, who for 25 years have been buying vast tracts of real estate in Kensington and Chelsea, and the West End generally, Chelsea FC is the ultimate toy, a status symbol, and a rich man's plaything. Abramovich is not relevant to any discussion about Norwich. He is not a philanthropist and no one should ever think that football investors are philanthropists (with the notable exception of the Shivaddhanaprabha family at Leicester and possibly Denim at Bournemouth).

Edited by Pugin

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14 minutes ago, king canary said:

So what is the benefit for Maxim Denim at Bournemouth? Or the two sets of rich owners who've ran Southampton in recent years?

That is rather the point though - they bought these clubs in Division 1 (in the case of The Liebeherr's at Southampton) and the Championship in the case of Denim at Bournemouth.

You point out that Denim has paid quite a lot to get Bournemouth in the Premier League, but presumably if he were now to sell the club he might well get that money back plus some more on top. (If we beat them on Saturday that plan might start looking a bit shaky 🙂 ). 

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1 minute ago, Badger said:

5. They rarely acknowledge that the purpose of an investor is to take money out of the club, not put it in

 

You keep saying this but as far as I can see, plenty of football clubs are owned by people who have put in more than they take out.

Fundamentally the only ways for an owner to make real money out of a football team is by making them largely successful. 

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