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Icecream Snow

Farke - Klose's season could be over

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Any one know what the regs are on free agents? Or indeed if there's any capable about? This is surely now a massive priority.

I genuinely can't believe we're staring down the barrel of this centre back mess again, it's like a Premier League lesson we never seem to learn.

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31 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

Through injury?

And never got it back. When Klose got injured Godfrey was seen as a better option than Hanley.

 

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, kick it off said:

And never got it back. When Klose got injured Godfrey was seen as a better option than Hanley.

 

I’d ignore it. There are some posters on this board that when they see any form of criticism of a player they feel the need to defend them whatever. In doing so what they have effectively done is a complete disrespect to Zimmerman and his achievements last season 

Edited by JF
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It is time a few on here understand we have no money available to improve the squad we are operating on a shoestring for the level we are at.  Delia's self sustaining plan was ok to at least compete in the Championship, promotion may prove to be a poisoned chalice buy one I don't feel anyone would wish to avoid.  Only bone of contention is we had another loan from the  premier league that we could have used to plug a gap.

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1 hour ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

Any one know what the regs are on free agents? Or indeed if there's any capable about? This is surely now a massive priority.

I genuinely can't believe we're staring down the barrel of this centre back mess again, it's like a Premier League lesson we never seem to learn.

Martin Caceres looks the best bet. As long as we have left a space I think we can register him if we got him in. Might be useful for a few months even just to cover in case Zimm drops injured again.

We look threadbare but provided Zimm and Godfrey stay fit then our first 11 is still not dinted.

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5 minutes ago, pete said:

It is time a few on here understand we have no money available to improve the squad we are operating on a shoestring for the level we are at.  Delia's self sustaining plan was ok to at least compete in the Championship, promotion may prove to be a poisoned chalice buy one I don't feel anyone would wish to avoid.  Only bone of contention is we had another loan from the  premier league that we could have used to plug a gap.

this is an absolute lie. We bid £17m on deadline day for the french lad. What we dont have is money to waste. If it was absolutely necessary, the money is there to get a centre back in at the right price. If we can get someone in for £50k a week for the season (9 months) then that is £2m basically for no return. The french fella would have probably been an asset hence we were prepared to shell out a big fee.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Martin Caceres looks the best bet. As long as we have left a space I think we can register him if we got him in. Might be useful for a few months even just to cover in case Zimm drops injured again.

We look threadbare but provided Zimm and Godfrey stay fit then our first 11 is still not dinted.

Our team is so much more than the sum of its parts. Bringing in one particular player will not solve our problem, it's the team spirit & the way the team knits together that matters.

I think Hanley, though limited at this level, will find a way to defend better in combination with the other three, just as Zimmermann did (although I believe him to be the better player). If we can integrated Ibrahim as well then I don't think there's a problem.

For me, it's a question of getting the back four into a cohesive unit with a couple of players who can be brought in as back up as near seamlessly as possible.

 

Edited by ron obvious

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58 minutes ago, kick it off said:

And never got it back. When Klose got injured Godfrey was seen as a better option than Hanley.

 

And who on this thread suggested that Hanley should be selected ahead of Godfrey? No-one, you are making up stuff now. The fact that Godfrey was picked to play last season demonstrates the ability of Farke and his team to 1) recognise potential talent and 2) to nurture it. And if they believe Hanley is our best option at CB then that’s enough, move on, find something else to worry about.

 

And the amount of hindsight on this thread is, well, actually it’s unsurprising given previous nonsense we regularly see on here. 

We started the season with four CBs, four and a half if you count Amadou. Everyone from what I can see rates Godfrey as a future £30m+ player. Timm has been there and done it in the PL, and could have kept us up if it wasn’t for his injury in the past. Zimmerman is a rock, had a fantastic season last time, and was singled out by Wenger when we played Arsenal. There weren’t many (any?) posters on here saying he wouldn’t be up to the PL. And for a fourth choice - fourth choice - CB we have Hanley, who has played in the PL, was probably out best CB at the start of last season and was one of the most expensive players in our squad last year. And as I said, we have Amadou. But we should have rushed out and spent a huge chunk of our available transfer fund on someone better? Seriously? But suddenly all the know it alls are out saying we should have bought a better defender than Timm. Like I say, pure hindsight.

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Posted (edited)

One players challenge is another players opportunity. Time for somebody to step into CB and make it their own. That's why we have a squad of players. It's a shame for Klose but now let's see who can step up. Surely the idea is that we play as a team a certain way, and that the players involved follow a template so we can switch players in and out of the first 11 seamlessly.

Edited by Michael Starr
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This is a really big blow for us, losing Timm. All of our players have my respect, and backing when asked to play, but that doesn’t mean I’d want to see one of our under 18’s start in front Pukki in a crucial league game. Zimmermann has emerged as a beast of a defender for us, and to be absolutely brutal, is definitely ahead of Hanley as a starting player. He was superb against Arsenal and Chelsea x2 in the cup the season before last. He needs to start. Grant is not a bad player at all, it’s just unfortunate that he gets turned so easily. His mobility, or lack of, has cost us a few goals, and that cannot keep happening with the same degree of regularity that it has I’m afraid. Grant’s a good player, one of our own, just he’s not blessed with the necessary pace or mobility for this league I’m sorry to say. I’d be very concerned if we lost Godfrey or Zimmermann at any point of this season now, given the dreadful news about Timm.

Btw, it’s worth pointing out that only ONE player in the Championship blocked more shots than Christoph Zimmermann last season - a quite telling statistic I would say.

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2 hours ago, Nuff Said said:

And who on this thread suggested that Hanley should be selected ahead of Godfrey? No-one, you are making up stuff now. The fact that Godfrey was picked to play last season demonstrates the ability of Farke and his team to 1) recognise potential talent and 2) to nurture it. And if they believe Hanley is our best option at CB then that’s enough, move on, find something else to worry about.

 

And the amount of hindsight on this thread is, well, actually it’s unsurprising given previous nonsense we regularly see on here. 

We started the season with four CBs, four and a half if you count Amadou. Everyone from what I can see rates Godfrey as a future £30m+ player. Timm has been there and done it in the PL, and could have kept us up if it wasn’t for his injury in the past. Zimmerman is a rock, had a fantastic season last time, and was singled out by Wenger when we played Arsenal. There weren’t many (any?) posters on here saying he wouldn’t be up to the PL. And for a fourth choice - fourth choice - CB we have Hanley, who has played in the PL, was probably out best CB at the start of last season and was one of the most expensive players in our squad last year. And as I said, we have Amadou. But we should have rushed out and spent a huge chunk of our available transfer fund on someone better? Seriously? But suddenly all the know it alls are out saying we should have bought a better defender than Timm. Like I say, pure hindsight.

Your obsession with the word hindsight is nonsense.  Myself and others were saying these things before the start of the season.

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16 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

I do sadly think we made a mistake re the CB position(s) over the summer, have said it all along.  That Hanley was so close to nobbing off on loan to Blackburn suggests there were ???s on him and I think we should have got another body in.  Amadou might work as a stop-gap but you need round pegs in round holes longer-term and he’s better at cdm 

You were saying we should be getting a cb in all transfer window

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Just now, AlexB said:

You were saying we should be getting a cb in all transfer window

it was right

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, JF said:

I’d ignore it. There are some posters on this board that when they see any form of criticism of a player they feel the need to defend them whatever. In doing so what they have effectively done is a complete disrespect to Zimmerman and his achievements last season 

How on earth have I disrespected his achievements? That simply isn't true. I'm merely supporting Hanley and recognising that in terms of ability there is no where near the gulf some are making out. 

Zimm is a good player and a fans favourite, no doubt about it. But if you think we'd currently be sat in a better position in the EPL had Zimm been fit and played instead of Hanley, then I'd accuse you of being a fantasist. There is no way Zimm would have been streets ahead of Hanley in terms of dealing with the likes of Salah and Abraham. Your championing a player with no experience at this level, and one who has demonstrated weakness at the level below, whilst scapegoating a player who has helped gain 3 EPL points. 

Our defensive issues are caused by our collective approach, and not an individual centre half. Playing either Zimm or Hanley will make little difference to the outcome of a result over 90 minutes. 

Edited by Il Pirata
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4 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

How on earth have I disrespected his achievements? That simply isn't true. I'm merely supporting Hanley and recognising that in terms of ability there is no where near the gulf some are making out. 

Zimm is a good player and a fans favourite, no doubt about it. But if you think we'd currently be sat in a better position in the EPL had Zimm been fit and played instead of Hanley, then I'd accuse you of being a fantasist. There is no way Zimm would have been streets ahead of Hanley in terms of dealing with the likes of Salah and Abraham. Your championing a player with no experience at this level, and one who has demonstrated weakness at the level below, whilst scapegoating a player who has helped gain 3 EPL points. 

Our defensive issues are caused by our collective approach, and not an individual centre half. Playing either Zimm or Hanley will make little difference to the outcome of a result over 90 minutes. 

While I agree that our defensive issues are caused by our attacking mentality the latter part of that is just nonsense. Playing Zimmerman over Hanley throughout the season would win us more points, his extra ability would turn some losses into draws and some draws into 3 points. As another poster pointed out only one defender in the championship made more blocks than Zimmerman last season. Watching the games this season it’s very noticeable how many times Godfrey has his body blocking shots, I’ve not seen the same with Hanley

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7 hours ago, Half Ar5ed Hipster said:

Any one know what the regs are on free agents? Or indeed if there's any capable about? This is surely now a massive priority.

I genuinely can't believe we're staring down the barrel of this centre back mess again, it's like a Premier League lesson we never seem to learn.

We are allowed to fill any spare spaces with free agents as long as they were free agents before the transfer deadline. 

If we gave 23 senior players registered then we can sign 2 free agents.

I do feel that this should be an avenue worth exploring even if just a player for absolute emergencies... Like when we signed Joseph Yobo for a few months. 

Kaboul is a free agent, won't be an upgrade on Hanley at 33 I doubt but he's better than nobody if Godfrey or Hanley get injured or suspended. 

29 year old Norway international Stefan Strandberg is also a free agent, can remember him from a few years back when he was playing in Europe with Rosenberg. Looks like he was called up by Norway in June so must at least be somewhere near capable. 

Plenty more on transfermarkt showing as free agents but can't pretend to know much about most of them. 

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36 minutes ago, JF said:

While I agree that our defensive issues are caused by our attacking mentality the latter part of that is just nonsense. Playing Zimmerman over Hanley throughout the season would win us more points, his extra ability would turn some losses into draws and some draws into 3 points. As another poster pointed out only one defender in the championship made more blocks than Zimmerman last season. Watching the games this season it’s very noticeable how many times Godfrey has his body blocking shots, I’ve not seen the same with Hanley

So over the last three games, how many more points would his extra ability have won us? 

Regardless of subjective opinions, the facts state Hanley has contributed to us winning three PL points. I'm sure more than most would have taken three points from the first three games this season. 

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, Il Pirata said:

So over the last three games, how many more points would his extra ability have won us? 

Regardless of subjective opinions, the facts state Hanley has contributed to us winning three PL points. I'm sure more than most would have taken three points from the first three games this season. 

Who knows. Let’s take Chelsea’s winning goal as an example. Hanley turns his back on the through pass losing Abraham’s position, school boy error. So maybe Zimmerman doesn’t make the same mistake. Now the next part is clearly speculation but once Hanley gets turned and Abraham gets his shot away it goes through Hanleys legs and into the net, maybe with the stats to back it up that Zimmerman has a high percentage of blocking shots he blocks that? 

You say about the three points against Newcastle but fail to point out that Hanley made several mistakes in that match, one resulting in Newcastle’s goal

 

Edited by JF

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JF said:

Who knows. Let’s take Chelsea’s winning goal as an example. Hanley turns his back on the through pass losing Abraham’s position, school boy error. So maybe Zimmerman doesn’t make the same mistake. Now the next part is clearly speculation but once Hanley gets turned and Abraham gets his shot away it goes through Hanleys legs and into the net, maybe with the stats to back it up that Zimmerman has a high percentage of blocking shots he blocks that? 

It's all ' ifs ', ' buts ' and ' maybes '.

I too think Zimmerman is a better option to Hanley but as II Parata says we could only realistically hope for three points from those first three games. Liverpool and Chelsea are on another level and both deserved to win so I don't think Zimmerman would have made a crucial difference overall.  Maybe Zimmerman would have made a mistake over something Hanley did well.

There'll be plenty of ' mistakes ' when Man City roll into town and will more than likely make no difference to the outcome. It's how we perform at places like the Olympic Stadium and Turf Moor that will define our season.

Edited by ......and Smith must score.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

It's all ' ifs ', ' buts ' and ' maybes '.

I too think Zimmerman is a better option to Hanley but as II Parata says we could only realistically hope for three points from those first three games. Liverpool and Chelsea are on another level and both deserved to win so I don't think Zimmerman would have made a crucial difference overall.  Maybe Zimmerman would have made a mistake over something Hanley did well.

There'll be plenty of ' mistakes ' when Man City roll into town and will more than likely make no difference to the outcome. How we perform at places like the Olympic Stadium and Turf Moor will define our season.

I’m aware of that. The point is if you play these individual scenarios out throughout the entire season you’ll likely have gained more points with Zimmerman in the team. It’s all in reference to Pirata saying there is no difference in quality between Hanley and Zimmerman. A ludicrous statement in my opinion 

Edited by JF
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1 minute ago, JF said:

I’m aware of that. The point is if you play these individual scenarios out throughout the entire season you’ll likely have gained more points with Zimmerman in the team. It’s all in reference to Palata saying there is no difference in quality between Hanley and Zimmerman. A ludicrous statement in my opinion 

Yes I agree that I'd rather see Zimmerman in the team over Hanley and if he is included all season we're likely to gain more points. I think most would agree he's probably a better player.

What I was trying to point out that when we play top teams boasting world class players the end result is rarely in doubt whoever plays in our defence.

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1 minute ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

Yes I agree that I'd rather see Zimmerman in the team over Hanley and if he is included all season we're likely to gain more points. I think most would agree he's probably a better player.

What I was trying to point out that when we play top teams boasting world class players the end result is rarely in doubt whoever plays in our defence.

I agree. I’m not convinced what we saw against Chelsea was a top team though. I felt disappointed not to come away with something from that match personality. On another day we could have easily taken a point, it’s those matches where a moment of individual brilliance, be it attacking or defensive makes the difference between a loss and a draw

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Just now, JF said:

I agree. I’m not convinced what we saw against Chelsea was a top team though. I felt disappointed not to come away with something from that match personality. On another day we could have easily taken a point, it’s those matches where a moment of individual brilliance, be it attacking or defensive makes the difference between a loss and a draw

" A moment of individual brilliance " is exactly what these teams have in abundance which is why it's so difficult against them. On the balance of play over the 90 minutes I think Chelsea deserved the win. They were in pretty much complete control in the 2nd half but as always it's a matter of opinion.

Luckily we don't play Liverpool or Chelsea every week.

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1 minute ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

" A moment of individual brilliance " is exactly what these teams have in abundance which is why it's so difficult against them. On the balance of play over the 90 minutes I think Chelsea deserved the win. They were in pretty much complete control in the 2nd half but as always it's a matter of opinion.

Luckily we don't play Liverpool or Chelsea every week.

Chelsea got stronger and we seemed to wilt. Its going to happen against the better teams.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, ......and Smith must score. said:

" A moment of individual brilliance " is exactly what these teams have in abundance which is why it's so difficult against them. On the balance of play over the 90 minutes I think Chelsea deserved the win. They were in pretty much complete control in the 2nd half but as always it's a matter of opinion.

Luckily we don't play Liverpool or Chelsea every week.

Again I’m happy to agree with that. Chelsea ultimately deserved the three points but I still felt disappointed we didn’t come away with a point. It’s such fine margins at this level which was the point I was trying to make really, that one individual, in this case Zimmerman may have been the difference between a point and none. It’s all speculation and we’ll never know but throughout the season I’m convinced he would gain us more

Edited by JF

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2 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

We are allowed to fill any spare spaces with free agents as long as they were free agents before the transfer deadline. 

If we gave 23 senior players registered then we can sign 2 free agents.

I do feel that this should be an avenue worth exploring even if just a player for absolute emergencies... Like when we signed Joseph Yobo for a few months. 

Kaboul is a free agent, won't be an upgrade on Hanley at 33 I doubt but he's better than nobody if Godfrey or Hanley get injured or suspended. 

29 year old Norway international Stefan Strandberg is also a free agent, can remember him from a few years back when he was playing in Europe with Rosenberg. Looks like he was called up by Norway in June so must at least be somewhere near capable. 

Plenty more on transfermarkt showing as free agents but can't pretend to know much about most of them. 

Ondrej Mazuch was at Hull until July, so at least would probably speak good English and have some experience of the English game. Yevhen Khacheridi played for Dynamo Kiev for ten years, so would have Champions League experience. Gabriel Paletta has tons of Serie A experience, although he's been in China for the last 18 months. Kaboul would be a disaster IMO, he's not played in the best part of two years.

No great shakes, but even on a short-term deal until the summer it might be worth getting one of them (or someone else) in as emergency cover. The other thing to consider is whether we can recall Rocky Bushiri from his loan.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Van wink said:

Is there any update on Zimbo?

Dave Freezer says it's only a minor tweak on his back & only taken off as a precaution.

That was immediately post-match; can't find anything since.

Freezer also reckoned Ibrahim looked pretty good at CB - perhaps better than at DM.

 

Edited by ron obvious
name omitted!

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