The Positive Brexit Thread

[Well b back 3,590]

1 hour ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The problems we have concerning the NHS, amongst many other problems, is because of mass immigration. 

Net immigration in the year to June 2022 totaled a record 504,000, which accounts for the rise in the number of people registered at GP practices in England alone. There's been 2.5m extra registrations with GPs over the past five years and people are wondering why they can't get a doctors/dentist appointment.

And you think further immigration's the answer?  

The Left keep telling us we need immigrants to staff the NHS, so answer me this: How many of those 504,000 are trained doctors/dentists/nurses?

 

Naaa

Farage and Johnson told us the British want and need these jobs, but the stark reality is they don’t and even if they did why would they work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for peanuts. 
I see NHS interviews and 1 in 3 is on zoom with people from Africa, Asia or the America’s, we were fed s***.

[Well b back 3,590]

1 hour ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Sept 2022 OECD forecast for 2022 was at 3.4% and now it's at 4.4%, YF.
 

Yet the real figures, and not made up forecasts show us bottom as @yellowfever has mentioned.

No one falls for made up Twitter s*** anymore.

[Herman 11,112]

5 hours ago, Well b back said:

Plenty of Trumpism going on here, no one believes the made up s*** anymore

Looks like Jools is definitely back, with his ill behaviour. 

Why blame an aging population, an increasingly ill nation and a vastly under resourced and under staffed NHS when you can simply blame immigration. 

Populism. I **** it. 

[Creative Midfielder 2,200]

7 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The Left keep telling us we need immigrants to staff the NHS, so answer me this: How many of those 504,000 are trained doctors/dentists/nurses?

 

If you were actually interested in a real answer to that question then  I'd suggest you direct your question at the Tory shambles of a Home Office that issued those 504,000 visas.

[A Load of Squit 6,205]

8 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The OECD last Tuesday stated the UK will be the fastest-growing economy in the G7 again this year...

Is that because of Brexit or despite it?

Brexit Britain tops the table of G7 major economies for predicted economic growth in 2022

1. United Kingdom : 4.43%
2. Italy : 3.70%
3. Canada : 3.25%
4. France : 2.55%
5. United States : 1.85%
6. Germany : 1.77%
7. Japan : 1.57%

That's because we are catching up. We're in 400 metre race with these countries, they're starting at zero metres, we're starting at -100 metres.

 

[A Load of Squit 6,205]

9 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The problems we have concerning the NHS, amongst many other problems, is because of mass immigration. 

Net immigration in the year to June 2022 totaled a record 504,000, which accounts for the rise in the number of people registered at GP practices in England alone. There's been 2.5m extra registrations with GPs over the past five years and people are wondering why they can't get a doctors/dentist appointment.

And you think further immigration's the answer?  

The Left keep telling us we need immigrants to staff the NHS, so answer me this: How many of those 504,000 are trained doctors/dentists/nurses?

 

Before Brexit you were more likely to see an immigrant in the consulting room, on the ward, in the operating theatre or in the care home than in the waiting room.

 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

8 hours ago, Well b back said:

Plenty of Trumpism going on here, no one believes the made up s*** anymore

I know OECD forecasts can often be wide of the mark, but that's a bit harsh.

[horsefly 5,281]

9 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The problems we have concerning the NHS, amongst many other problems, is because of mass immigration. 

Net immigration in the year to June 2022 totaled a record 504,000, which accounts for the rise in the number of people registered at GP practices in England alone. There's been 2.5m extra registrations with GPs over the past five years and people are wondering why they can't get a doctors/dentist appointment.

And you think further immigration's the answer?  

The Left keep telling us we need immigrants to staff the NHS, so answer me this: How many of those 504,000 are trained doctors/dentists/nurses?

 

Oh dear! Instead of this entirely random guess work you might be better off doing some actual research. The Nuffield Trust (probably the most respected Health research organisation in the country) has just released a report showing that post Brexit 4000 European doctors have been lost from our health service (based on pre-Brexit projections) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/think-tank-says-there-has-been-a-slowdown-in-european-doctors-working-in-nhs-following-brexit/ar-AA14D0Lq#:~:text=More than 4%2C000 European doctors have opted not,in the NHS in 2021 than predicted pre-Brexit. The typical GP on average cares for around 1800 patients https://profound-answers.com/how-many-patients-does-an-average-gp-have/. The Government has a mandate for 50% of medical students to become GPs https://www.rcgp.org.uk/training-exams/discover-general-practice/medical-students/shaping-general-practice#:~:text=The government’s mandate for 50% of medical school,educate%2C and inspire future members of our profession. So let' s work on the figure that 2000 of the lost 4000 would have become GPs. Now multiply1800 by 2000 and we arrive at the figure of 3,600,000 patients that could have been covered by the EU doctors we have lost because of Brexit. So very obviously yes, immigration is the answer, and would have been the answer if we hadn't lost all those EU doctors from our health service.

[BigFish 2,257]

10 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The OECD last Tuesday stated the UK will be the fastest-growing economy in the G7 again this year...

Is that because of Brexit or despite it?

Brexit Britain tops the table of G7 major economies for predicted economic growth in 2022

1. United Kingdom : 4.43%
2. Italy : 3.70%
3. Canada : 3.25%
4. France : 2.55%
5. United States : 1.85%
6. Germany : 1.77%
7. Japan : 1.57%

 

10 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

And if were to take an axe to EU regulations still holding us back we would be doing even better, but our globalist government is hardly going to do that is it?

You/We are all being taken for fools.

Even better? Comedy gold, in case you havn't noticed just about everyone who knows about such things accepts we are in a recession, and a recession that is forecast to hit the UK harder than any other top 20 economy except Russia. What is different about the UK? The economy still hasn't recovered its pre Covid levels and living standards haven't recovered from the crash in 2007. Why?

 

 

[Well b back 3,590]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I know OECD forecasts can often be wide of the mark, but that's a bit harsh.

Which bits about immigration and the economy do you believe then ? 
Let me tell you how lessons are never learned ( not overly to do with Brexit but I suppose immigration is ). As we are aware in the pandemic nursing home residents were transferred without testing, lesson learnt those involved would tell us ( personally I think complete s*** a serious error amounting mass manslaughter ). So we have Marston packed to capacity. 4 cases of diphtheria came to light, a while ago, 1 of those died. It then came to pass that Braverman decided at last to empty Marston to its normal levels. Those were moved all over the country and guess what ? They were tested when they arrived at their destination so now it’s with migrants throughout the U.K. What a shambles.

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Which bits about immigration and the economy do you believe then ? 
Let me tell you how lessons are never learned ( not overly to do with Brexit but I suppose immigration is ). As we are aware in the pandemic nursing home residents were transferred without testing, lesson learnt those involved would tell us ( personally I think complete s*** a serious error amounting mass manslaughter ). So we have Marston packed to capacity. 4 cases of diphtheria came to light, a while ago, 1 of those died. It then came to pass that Braverman decided at last to empty Marston to its normal levels. Those were moved all over the country and guess what ? They were tested when they arrived at their destination so now it’s with migrants throughout the U.K. What a shambles.

It was a tongue in cheek reference to the following comment in response to comments about OECD forecasts.

 

10 hours ago, Well b back said:

Yet the real figures, and not made up forecasts show us bottom as @yellowfever has mentioned.

No one falls for made up Twitter s*** anymore.

 

[horsefly 5,281]

12 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

The OECD last Tuesday stated the UK will be the fastest-growing economy in the G7 again this year...

Is that because of Brexit or despite it?

Brexit Britain tops the table of G7 major economies for predicted economic growth in 2022

1. United Kingdom : 4.43%
2. Italy : 3.70%
3. Canada : 3.25%
4. France : 2.55%
5. United States : 1.85%
6. Germany : 1.77%
7. Japan : 1.57%

Can't for the life of me think why you didn't copy and paste the graph from that OECD report. Perhaps you would like to explain? Anyway, to help you and others out here it is:

[Yellow Fever 4,388]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

 

Even better? Comedy gold, in case you havn't noticed just about everyone who knows about such things accepts we are in a recession, and a recession that is forecast to hit the UK harder than any other top 20 economy except Russia. What is different about the UK? The economy still hasn't recovered its pre Covid levels and living standards haven't recovered from the crash in 2007. Why?

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Sept 2022 OECD forecast for 2022 was at 3.4% and now it's at 4.4%, YF.
 

Well said BF.

It was too late last night and I didn't realize HWC was quoting 2022 (and cherry picking without context 2021) figures when we were indeed playing 'catchup' from the Covid recession with the economy moving from full switch off to switch on. The deeper the recession the bigger the recovery / return to normality it should of been. 

As you noted we are now unique amongst the G7, a laggard, in not yet recovering our economy to pre-pandemic levels. Answers on a post card but B is a large part of it.

I do find it very odd and frankly disingenuous that some Brexiters' want to take credit for the 2021 'Covid' recovery but not the previous year Covid loss. Even us Remainers didn't think it was fair to blame that dip on Brexit but if the Brexiters want to own it so be it. It's a long charge sheet already.

It's actually rather like the Government itself last year not raising pensions in line with 'average earnings' as the Covid dip in 2020 followed by the recovery then gave us an artificial statistical 'lift' to earnings. Even the government could see that wasn't a real earning increase but a simple recovery of an exceptional event (and the pensioners didn't get a 10% cut the year before).

So back in accepted recession and bottom of the league we are. A Brexit success story to some.

 

 

[Yellow Fever 4,388]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear! Instead of this entirely random guess work you might be better off doing some actual research. The Nuffield Trust (probably the most respected Health research organisation in the country) has just released a report showing that post Brexit 4000 European doctors have been lost from our health service (based on pre-Brexit projections) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/think-tank-says-there-has-been-a-slowdown-in-european-doctors-working-in-nhs-following-brexit/ar-AA14D0Lq#:~:text=More than 4%2C000 European doctors have opted not,in the NHS in 2021 than predicted pre-Brexit. The typical GP on average cares for around 1800 patients https://profound-answers.com/how-many-patients-does-an-average-gp-have/. The Government has a mandate for 50% of medical students to become GPs https://www.rcgp.org.uk/training-exams/discover-general-practice/medical-students/shaping-general-practice#:~:text=The government’s mandate for 50% of medical school,educate%2C and inspire future members of our profession. So let' s work on the figure that 2000 of the lost 4000 would have become GPs. Now multiply1800 by 2000 and we arrive at the figure of 3,600,000 patients that could have been covered by the EU doctors we have lost because of Brexit. So very obviously yes, immigration is the answer, and would have been the answer if we hadn't lost all those EU doctors from our health service.

I propose my two types of NHS solution earlier. 

[Herman 11,112]

An interesting article. Here is a snippet.

 

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 221]

Is there any point in anybody that isn't an EU, BBC loving, lefty looney contributing to this thread?   

Today an internal investigation by the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU) has ruled that the channel broke impartiality rules over its negative coverage of Brexit on Scottish businesses last year. The BBC investigating itself 🤣 If that isn't confirmation of BBC bias I don't know what is, but it won't stop them and still you sad people will soak up the BS and splatter it on here 🙃

[Well b back 3,590]

1 hour ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Is there any point in anybody that isn't an EU, BBC loving, lefty looney contributing to this thread?   

Today an internal investigation by the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU) has ruled that the channel broke impartiality rules over its negative coverage of Brexit on Scottish businesses last year. The BBC investigating itself 🤣 If that isn't confirmation of BBC bias I don't know what is, but it won't stop them and still you sad people will soak up the BS and splatter it on here 🙃

I’m a Tory voter ( or at least was ), some superb Trumpism there, firstly I am a righty not a lefty and I think you mention 1 rule break by the BBC and they investigate themselves, whilst you don’t mention the numerous complaints re members and MPs of the Tory party and guess what they investigate themselves, so I guess that leaves you soaking up far more BS than anyone on here. Stick to Twitter you will get far more attention saddo.

[Herman 11,112]

This'll please Jools. Finally, a right wing run news channel for him to watch.

 

[PurpleCanary 6,276]

15 hours ago, Herman said:

An interesting article. Here is a snippet.

 

It's a good piece of analysis of what should not have been done, but doesn't offer much in the way of advice on what to do now. And unusually for Wolf its perspective is a bit short-term:

"Most alternatives to full membership — such as joining the single market, the customs union or both — would also restart the Brexit civil war, in both main parties."

For now, yes, although comparing the differences in Labour to the wilfully self-destructive civil war in the Tory party is a real stretch. But apart from the Tories (as presently controlled by mad people) and the Unionists (ditto) even now all parties want at least a better Brexit deal than the worst possible one Johnson lumbered Britain with.

Starmer has ruled out renegotiations with the EU but by definition his promise to fix the holes in the current deal will entail renegotiations.

And once that starts then over time what in Vietnam was called mission creep is likely to occur, but in this case in a good way. If as I suspect there will be some kind of anti-Tory government in charge for at least eight years from 2024 then the chances are some kind of much closer relationship - at least being in a customs' union - will be forged.

[Yellow Fever 4,388]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

It's a good piece of analysis of what should not have been done, but doesn't offer much in the way of advice on what to do now. And unusually for Wolf its perspective is a bit short-term:

"Most alternatives to full membership — such as joining the single market, the customs union or both — would also restart the Brexit civil war, in both main parties."

For now, yes, although comparing the differences in Labour to the wilfully self-destructive civil war in the Tory party is a real stretch. But apart from the Tories (as presently controlled by mad people) and the Unionists (ditto) even now all parties want at least a better Brexit deal than the worst possible one Johnson lumbered Britain with.

Starmer has ruled out renegotiations with the EU but by definition his promise to fix the holes in the current deal will entail renegotiations.

And once that starts then over time what in Vietnam was called mission creep is likely to occur, but in this case in a good way. If as I suspect there will be some kind of anti-Tory government in charge for at least eight years from 2024 then the chances are some kind of much closer relationship - at least being in a customs' union - will be forged.

That's my ten years time-scale again (8 or 9 now). 2024 election is too soon for SKS or anybody else to be radical but the trend and polling (let alone demographic death and taxes argument) is now very clear. Of course, the EU will also change in that time too - perhaps Ukraine and Moldova will also be members when the prodigal child returns. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

This'll please Jools. Finally, a right wing run news channel for him to watch.

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/media/gb-news-boss-john-mcandrew-culture-wars-next-bbc-director-of-news-1260969

Bit of additional context: John McAndrew left GB News in objection to its promotion of 'culture wars' and has a long history in broadcast news with BBC, Sky, and others. There's a big difference between how GB News was sold prior to launch and what it has become.

Edited November 29, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[horsefly 5,281]

12 hours ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

Is there any point in anybody that isn't an EU, BBC loving, lefty looney contributing to this thread?   

Today an internal investigation by the BBC’s Executive Complaints Unit (ECU) has ruled that the channel broke impartiality rules over its negative coverage of Brexit on Scottish businesses last year. The BBC investigating itself 🤣 If that isn't confirmation of BBC bias I don't know what is, but it won't stop them and still you sad people will soak up the BS and splatter it on here 🙃

Try saying something that doesn't crumble to pieces under the slightest rational inspection then we'll see. Still awaiting your comments on the bits of the OECD report that you decided to leave out in your post above (The Uk's predicted performance for 2023 and 2024), Or are you just a sad RWNJ who can't face up to the reality that Farage and co fooled you like gullible children? 

Edited November 29, 2022 by horsefly

[Herman 11,112]

46 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

https://inews.co.uk/news/media/gb-news-boss-john-mcandrew-culture-wars-next-bbc-director-of-news-1260969

Bit of additional context: John McAndrew left GB News in objection to its promotion of 'culture wars' and has a long history in broadcast news with BBC, Sky, and others. There's a big difference between how GB News was sold prior to launch and what it has become.

They set up a right wing news channel, fill it with right wingers and culture warriors and then leave when it becomes a right wing stoker of the culture wars. It all feels a iffy to me. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

18 minutes ago, Herman said:

They set up a right wing news channel, fill it with right wingers and culture warriors and then leave when it becomes a right wing stoker of the culture wars. It all feels a iffy to me. 

Who's 'they'? John McAndrew definitely wasn't one of them. He was employed by whoever 'they' were to do a job and left when it became clear it was not in line with his own values as a journalist.

[Herman 11,112]

Him and Andrew Neil. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

That's just not correct. Both were brought into the project sold on a very different idea to the reality that came to be. If it was otherwise and they were on board with GB News as it is then there'd be no motivation to leave, particularly with the embarrassment and humiliation of turning their backs on a startup project they'd been heavily involved in at the outset as media professionals with excellent reputations in their own right.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/17/i-was-a-minority-of-one-andrew-neil-reveals-why-he-quit-gb-news

Edited November 29, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[Yellow Fever 4,388]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's just not correct. Both were brought into the project sold on a very different idea to the reality that came to be. If it was otherwise and they were on board with GB News as it is then there'd be no motivation to leave, particularly with the embarrassment and humiliation of turning their backs on a startup project they'd been heavily involved in at the outset as media professionals with excellent reputations in their own right.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2021/sep/17/i-was-a-minority-of-one-andrew-neil-reveals-why-he-quit-gb-news

I can accept that but what then follows is that they both suffered from a huge lack of professional judgement as to the real nature of GB News. Few of us outside the 'bubble' had any doubts as to it's true nature at the outset. 

[littleyellowbirdie 3,103]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

I can accept that but what then follows is that they both suffered from a huge lack of professional judgement as to the real nature of GB News. Few of us outside the 'bubble' had any doubts as to it's true nature at the outset. 

What can you base that judgement on other than what you're presented with as a concept? It turns out that those that prejudged the project were right, but they had no real basis other than objection to the basic concept as presented. Andrew Neil is an excellent journalist and the fact that they offered him such a high level role could reasonably be interpreted as a sign of positive intentions rather than what turned out to be an exercise in using his reputation to promote an unworthy project. Hindsight is always 20/20.

There always was a kernel of truth in the idea that open and honest debate has been stifled in most of the media; the fact that the likes of GB News have perverted that observation as a fig leaf for their shameless propaganda machine doesn't detract from the fact that the original principle as presented wasn't without foundation.

[horsefly 5,281]

20 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Andrew Neil is an excellent journalist and the fact that they offered him such a high level role could reasonably be interpreted as a sign of positive intentions rather than what turned out to be an exercise in using his reputation to promote an unworthy project. Hindsight is always 20/20.

What they offered him was a massive pay-packet. Neil is far too canny not to have known what sort of "news" channel was being proposed. It was the sheer incompetence in production that drove him out, not objection to the project.

[keelansgrandad 6,680]

GB News is a rea l oddball. Its owners or major shareholders do not appear to support candidates and it was rumoured that Soros was involved in the original funding.

But from what I have seen, and its not regular, many of its journos seem to be right leaning. And its contributors seem to be even further dogmatic if not right leaning.

Look, despite mty left leaning beliefs I do observe with an open mind. They all get one chance in my book. I see many things that many left wing people support and promote that I totally disagree with. I do not like to see abuse of privilege but neither the Welfare State either.

As an ex Trade Union Secretary, members from the past did not fight for rights and conditions at personal cost to see them abused or taken for granted. 

But people didn't fight two world wars to return to a land fit for heroes and find the privileged were even deeper ensconced and not prepared to share the nation's wealth.

So GB News must present a mix of news and opinion. As long as the opinion is balanced and not Fox News bias, I have no objections to a right leaning news channel. Nobody has to watch it.