The Positive Brexit Thread

[benchwarmer 624]

The government wants to do something about the number of people aged 50-70 who are "economically inactive" (ie. working less than 16 hours a week), a trend which apparently is more marked in the UK than elsewhere.  Is this an unintended consequence of Thatcherism, which greatly increased the number of home owners in the 1980s?  Now that they're paying off their mortgages, some can afford to give up full-time work. 

Early retirement is nothing new, and in normal circumstances it contributes to a healthy economy by preventing a logjam in middle management and enabling junior staff to progress.  The very fact that the government has identified it as a problem says it all about the current state of the UK economy. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by benchwarmer

[Well b back 3,190]

Remember when the likes of @SwindonCanary and @Jools used to tell us how Britain would lead the world in car manufacturing due to Brexit ? Or just a couple of months ago the government telling us the reason for them ordering their new cars from Germany. Turns out Swindo got it wrong and the government as usual were just telling lies.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-ministerial-government-cars-made-in-germany-audi-b2250544.html

[Herman 9,717]

Pretty obvious that Santa got caught up at the border with all the extra brexit paperwork. 🥴😀

Happy Christmas to you all. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

On 24/12/2022 at 22:07, Well b back said:

Remember when the likes of @SwindonCanary and @Jools used to tell us how Britain would lead the world in car manufacturing due to Brexit ? Or just a couple of months ago the government telling us the reason for them ordering their new cars from Germany. Turns out Swindo got it wrong and the government as usual were just telling lies.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-ministerial-government-cars-made-in-germany-audi-b2250544.html

I'd like to know where I wrote 'Britain would lead the world in car manufacturing' more ( lies from remainers) 

[horsefly 4,287]

Can't for the life of me think why the government would be so reticent to trumpet the latest fantastic post-Brexit trade deal:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/government-refuses-to-publish-economic-benefits-estimate-of-latest-brexit-trade-deal/ar-AA15Ji8l?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=10fcf3e4ecb34303b07a59efae2bdead

Government refuses to publish economic benefits estimate of latest Brexit trade deal

Edited December 28, 2022 by horsefly

[Creative Midfielder 1,985]

On 27/12/2022 at 09:29, SwindonCanary said:

I'd like to know where I wrote 'Britain would lead the world in car manufacturing' more ( lies from remainers) 

Well, you used to pump out such a huge amount of nonsense that it must be pretty difficult for you to remember exactly what you said and when 😀

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

Can't for the life of me think why the government would be so reticent to trumpet the latest fantastic post-Brexit trade deal:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/government-refuses-to-publish-economic-benefits-estimate-of-latest-brexit-trade-deal/ar-AA15Ji8l?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=10fcf3e4ecb34303b07a59efae2bdead

Government refuses to publish economic benefits estimate of latest Brexit trade deal

Simple explanation - Brexiteers don't do maths!

[horsefly 4,287]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Simple explanation - Brexiteers don't do maths!

Brexiteer advanced maths class:

 

[horsefly 4,287]

The truly brilliant satirist John Bird died this Christmas. This sketch from 2014 seems rather appropriate for this thread:

 

[A Load of Squit 5,135]

 

 

[horsefly 4,287]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/we-re-only-seeing-the-negative-uk-farmers-on-brexit-and-losing-the-common-agricultural-policy/ar-AA15M8uW?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f8251257dd0648319f46cdacc1b39231

‘We’re only seeing the negative’: UK farmers on Brexit and losing the common agricultural policy

... 

A great deal is something more beneficial to agriculture. At the moment we haven’t, we’re only seeing the negative,” says Rickman. “There’s no way you can dress those trade deals up as a as a good thing. I’ve heard farmers say the industry was more or less chucked under a bus.”

Guto Bebb, the managing director of the Farmers’ Union of Wales (FUW), says his counterparts in Australia are very pleased with the contingency they now have if the Chinese market were to be closed off.

“But where’s our insurance policy after losing the single market? We don’t have one,” he says.

A study by the statutory levy body the Agriculture and Horticulture Development Board has concluded that New Zealand exports to the UK would rise by “about 13,000 tonnes (31%) if China imposed a 25% tariff on New Zealand lamb imports and 29,000 tonnes (69%) if there was an outright ban.”

Energy prices for everyone are going through the roof, while at the same time the cost of selling to the EU, which represents 33% of the lamb export market, has also spiralled.

A cross-industry veterinary and environmental health group, the Sanitary and Phytosanitary Certification Working Group, estimated that the new requirement for export health certificates, signed off by a vet, added £60m to the cost of food exports to Europe in 2021....

[Herman 9,717]

The EU is falling apart, new year edition.

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/money-euro-croatia-schengen-area-b2254265.html

 

[Surfer 1,547]

Just saying ... 

[Herman 9,717]

 

[horsefly 4,287]

2 hours ago, Herman said:

 

Apparently it comes with a warning: "The picture and description on the box may not resemble the actual content"

[littleyellowbirdie 2,514]

Constructive commentary from Leo Varadkar regarding flexibility over the NI protocol.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/03/brexit-northern-ireland-protocol-too-strict-says-leo-varadkar

 

Quote

 

In a significant remark, Varadkar conceded that the protocol, which has never been fully implemented after the former Brexit minister David Frost abandoned checks on goods including fresh food at Northern Irish ports, was not causing the problems the EU had envisaged back in 2019.

“We’ve seen that the protocol has worked without it being fully enforced. And that’s why I think there is room for flexibility and room for changes, and we’re open to that and up for that, and I know from speaking to [the European Commission] president [Ursula] von der Leyen and [vice-president] Maroš Šefčovič, that’s their position too.

“So we are willing to show flexibility and to make compromises. We do want there to be an agreement.”

 

 

[sonyc 5,492]

The lunacy of Brexit? 

A practical and humanitarian response in the form of a contract?

Either or both...an indictment on poor planning after such a length of time has elapsed post Brexit. 

Anyone read reports on queues still in place? Or is the problem now receding? Not been on the news. But... the contract was put in place from November the article says.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/04/disaster-response-charity-enlisted-to-aid-drivers-stuck-in-uk-queues-for-channel?

 

[horsefly 4,287]

15 minutes ago, sonyc said:

The lunacy of Brexit? 

A practical and humanitarian response in the form of a contract?

Either or both...an indictment on poor planning after such a length of time has elapsed post Brexit. 

Anyone read reports on queues still in place? Or is the problem now receding? Not been on the news. But... the contract was put in place from November the article says.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/04/disaster-response-charity-enlisted-to-aid-drivers-stuck-in-uk-queues-for-channel?

 

Can't remember seeing the need for truck driver disaster relief written on the side of a Brexit bus. Perhaps it was stuck in a queue somewhere.

[Herman 9,717]

 

[A Load of Squit 5,135]

9 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

 

The desire to leave the European Union literally collapsed in many European countries between 2016-2017 and 2020-2022. v/

@ESS_Survey

[Well b back 3,190]

8 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

Looks like more duff info given to us by @SwindonCanary @Jools and @paulmoy

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

1 hour ago, Well b back said:

Looks like more duff info given to us by @SwindonCanary @Jools and @paulmoy

Did I see somewhere that about a third now of previous Brexit voters had been fully cured, a further third are now in the don't-know 'remission' phase with only about a third left stull adamant that they made the right decision despite the mounting evidence to the contrary. Amazing what some hard economic realities can do - kill or cure.

[sonyc 5,492]

Today's Guardian has a solid piece about our NHS and uses many comparators across Europe. 

I have highlighted just two paragraphs to indicate the level of collaboration needed - it's the antithesis of going alone as in Brexit and how our government(s) should be working for the long term good, putting party interests aside.

THIS is the kind of thing this country needs.....and they've been working on it for nearly two decades. We need structural change.

 

"Germany, meanwhile, has been tackling the joint health and social care challenges in a cross-party consultation process since the mid-1990s – an approach Westminster has never been able to follow, despite the obvious need. Berlin’s answer, which everyone admits is still far from perfect, is the Pflegeversicherung – or long-term care insurance scheme. It is funded by mandatory contributions from all employees, who pay about 3% of their salary into the system.

This funding mechanism is based on the solidarity principle of spreading the risk across society, ensuring that an individual’s burden, should they require care, is not overwhelming. The scheme focuses on keeping people out of hospital (currently four out of five of the 5 million people in care, two-thirds of whom are aged over 85, are looked after in their own homes), improving the home care they receive from mobile care workers and easing the burden on family carers".

 

Link if anyone is interested

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jan/08/sick-man-of-europe-why-the-crisis-ridden-nhs-is-falling-apart?

Edited January 8, 2023 by sonyc

[Barbe bleu 816]

I think the Boris social care levy (which this German initiative seems to copy) was fairly sensible, shame it went. Maybe it'll come back in some form

We do need deep, honest and dispassionate discussions about the NHS in terms of funding and structure but its really hard for conservatives to do that qithout an outcry. Peehaps labour will be able to do so, but im not sure (and maybe we just neutralise it a bit and say we need a discussion about 'health' rather than the 'NHS') 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[sonyc 5,492]

1 minute ago, Barbe bleu said:

Isn't that pretty much what you get if you combine national insurance with boris' social care levy?  Ie. What Boris was proposing.

The difference, perhaps, might be that this German model is designed to sit on top of a private system so thet there is a bit of both.  Maybe someone with better knowledge of the german health industry can help.

Not sure what beexit has to do with it to be honest

Very quick to reply BB. I don't think it is about Brexit purely at all. The article compares performance across Europe. And this felt the best place. We've concentrated on the red herring of taking control. But we haven't much control. 

My point was though about collaboration and how we need to tackle things in a different way. I believe we do need a mixed economy approach and some kind of mechanism to 'spread the burden' across society. Those who can pay for example. 

[Barbe bleu 816]

11 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Very quick to reply BB. I don't think it is about Brexit purely at all. The article compares performance across Europe. And this felt the best place. We've concentrated on the red herring of taking control. But we haven't much control. 

My point was though about collaboration and how we need to tackle things in a different way. I believe we do need a mixed economy approach and some kind of mechanism to 'spread the burden' across society. Those who can pay for example. 

And you were quick too, I actually edited my reply as it came across as a bit argumentative when I reflected (its this forum!) 

Agree that we need to think about doing things a bit differently.  Seems to me that when we talk about health it always becomes a discussion about hospitals and the need to 'protect the NHS' from 'US privatisation'.    Sure, I agree with those things but let's not let always assume the worst.

Hospitals are one part of 'health' (and in an ideal world should be a small part) and a lot of problems in hospitals seem to stem from them doing what should be done elsewhere- by pharmacists, clinics, GPs, care homes etc (even support for the lonely, the unfit, or people with mental healtth challenges would probably help in some small way).  So maybe we solve hospital problems by not looking at hospitals? But easier said than done for sure 

Edited January 8, 2023 by Barbe bleu

[Herman 9,717]

****ing amen to this.

 

[Wings of a Sparrow 1,410]

What's happening with the NI Protocol?

[horsefly 4,287]

On 08/01/2023 at 12:07, Barbe bleu said:

And you were quick too, I actually edited my reply as it came across as a bit argumentative when I reflected (its this forum!) 

Agree that we need to think about doing things a bit differently.  Seems to me that when we talk about health it always becomes a discussion about hospitals and the need to 'protect the NHS' from 'US privatisation'.    Sure, I agree with those things but let's not let always assume the worst.

Hospitals are one part of 'health' (and in an ideal world should be a small part) and a lot of problems in hospitals seem to stem from them doing what should be done elsewhere- by pharmacists, clinics, GPs, care homes etc (even support for the lonely, the unfit, or people with mental healtth challenges would probably help in some small way).  So maybe we solve hospital problems by not looking at hospitals? But easier said than done for sure 

Very much what Wes Streeting has said. Primary care is at the forefront of his proposals for reform. Apparently it costs the NHS roughly 5 times as much for a patient to end up in A and E than it does for them to visit a GP practice. 

What we need is a government that recognises the need to develop a strategy for the health of the nation that acknowledges the interrelated nature of all aspects of modern life that impact upon the NHS. It should be motivated by one key principle: "How do we keep people out of hospitals". For example, my partner specialises in diabetes; the figures for the number of cases per capita has increased astronomically in recent years. Particularly shocking is the increasing  number of children who are diagnosed. Type 2 diabetes (which accounts for most of the increase) is very much avoidable, and in any sane world prevention is precisely what should be prioritised. The fact that 30%+ of school children are now considered obese is not only shocking, but also an absurd neglect of the costs the individual incurs in terms of their own life opportunities but also the cost they will likely make upon the NHS. Ensure kids are well fed and fit and and you increase the likelihood that they will stay out of hospital. Thus, ensuring school meals are available and nutritious, ensuring kids have safe walking and cycling routes to school, that their education includes physical activity etc, are not only worthwhile things in themselves but also an important part of a health of the nation strategy. The same sorts of things can be said of all aspects of life across all ages.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/children-type-2

[Yellow Fever 3,749]

On 08/01/2023 at 12:07, Barbe bleu said:

And you were quick too, I actually edited my reply as it came across as a bit argumentative when I reflected (its this forum!) 

Agree that we need to think about doing things a bit differently.  Seems to me that when we talk about health it always becomes a discussion about hospitals and the need to 'protect the NHS' from 'US privatisation'.    Sure, I agree with those things but let's not let always assume the worst.

Hospitals are one part of 'health' (and in an ideal world should be a small part) and a lot of problems in hospitals seem to stem from them doing what should be done elsewhere- by pharmacists, clinics, GPs, care homes etc (even support for the lonely, the unfit, or people with mental healtth challenges would probably help in some small way).  So maybe we solve hospital problems by not looking at hospitals? But easier said than done for sure 

 

4 hours ago, horsefly said:

Very much what Wes Streeting has said. Primary care is at the forefront of his proposals for reform. Apparently it costs the NHS roughly 5 times as much for a patient to end up in A and E than it does for them to visit a GP practice. 

What we need is a government that recognises the need to develop a strategy for the health of the nation that acknowledges the interrelated nature of all aspects of modern life that impact upon the NHS. It should be motivated by one key principle: "How do we keep people out of hospitals". For example, my partner specialises in diabetes; the figures for the number of cases per capita has increased astronomically in recent years. Particularly shocking is the increasing  number of children who are diagnosed. Type 2 diabetes (which accounts for most of the increase) is very much avoidable, and in any sane world prevention is precisely what should be prioritised. The fact that 30%+ of school children are now considered obese is not only shocking, but also an absurd neglect of the costs the individual incurs in terms of their own life opportunities but also the cost they will likely make upon the NHS. Ensure kids are well fed and fit and and you increase the likelihood that they will stay out of hospital. Thus, ensuring school meals are available and nutritious, ensuring kids have safe walking and cycling routes to school, that their education includes physical activity etc, are not only worthwhile things in themselves but also an important part of a health of the nation strategy. The same sorts of things can be said of all aspects of life across all ages.

https://www.diabetes.org.uk/about_us/news/children-type-2

I have no issue with the NHS using private contractors or hospitals for whatever. Whatever is the most cost effective. No ideologies

I do think however we have an entitlement culture which can never be satisfied especially with our aging demographic brought up with the notion of cradle to grave care. We do need people to value the free (hint - its not really free) care that they have come to expect.

Did anybody hear a few weeks ago on R4 (ambulance strike) where some old, but well spoken lady, living presumably alone in her own house 'slipped' out of bed onto the floor for the 4th time - but instead of calling 999 (she seemed able to get to the phone!) as before called her 'carers' who sorted her out . It seemed to me that she should of called her carers the other three times as well!

The same applies to those missing GP appointments, or getting blind drunk at A & E. I really do think we need some fiscal charge for the worst offenders - wave able by a medical professional on case by case basis. We all have some responsibility to ourselves and to others to use such resources carefully.