The Positive Brexit Thread

[horsefly 4,298]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I edited, to lay it out, but I'll say it again: If this slump in trade isn't caused by Brexit, the subject of a slump in trade with Japan isn't relevant to a thread on Brexit.

Herman's original post implied a connection between the Japan continuity agreement and the recent slump in trade, which everyone seems to agree aren't connected, so we can move on.

You claimed that I didn't get the point. Thus, I still look forward to your explanation of what point I didn't get. You also haven't addressed the very obvious point I made that EVERY reputable source of economic analysis (including those major authorities I listed above) does indeed claim that Brexit is a very significant factor in the UK's dreadful economic performance. So do feel free to demonstrate why you know better. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

22 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

LYB - I 'm afraid you're very wrong. It has everything to do with Brexit.

The issue is not that the 'rollover' deal was over-sold (it was to the idiots) but that now the UK has left EU it is in no longer the 'gateway to Europe' and hence many Japanese (on indeed any non-European) firm no longer see's the UK as a good place to be to service European markets - much more sensible to slowly relocate to the likes of Germany. You certainly don't want your 'service' or distribution centre to be in the UK for goods to Europe let alone manufacturing.

On that subject I smiled when I read BMW concentrating it's 'electric minis' in China and Europe and using Oxford for it's legacy i.c. vehicles. To use an American business phrase it's either invest, milk or close. Been there, seen that, done it. Oxford is clearly now in the 'milk' category until the cow has to go to the slaughterhouse.  

Ergo we see a reduction in our trade (and importantly as compared our EU counterparts).

I must own up here too - I've done exactly the same with my company a few years back.

And this is an important point about CPTPP membership, because components from CPTPP members will count towards accumulation for tariff-free export of UK manufactured goods to the EU, which helps restore the UK as a geographically local base of manufacture.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

7 minutes ago, horsefly said:

You claimed that I didn't get the point. Thus, I still look forward to your explanation of what point I didn't get. You also haven't addressed the very obvious point I made that EVERY reputable source of economic analysis (including those major authorities I listed above) does indeed claim that Brexit is a very significant factor in the UK's dreadful economic performance. So do feel free to demonstrate why you know better. 

Well, you've just changed the subject; I've been talking to you specifically about the UK and Japan in response to Herman's post where I've explained my point very clearly and in simple terms. If you're still not getting it, there's nothing more I can do to help you.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[horsefly 4,298]

3 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And this is an important point about CPTPP membership, because components from CPTPP members will count towards accumulation for tariff-free export of UK manufactured goods to the EU, which helps restore the UK as a geographically local base of manufacture.

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think membership of the CPTPP could even come close to replacing what we have lost by withdrawing from the SM. Go to the government's own website posts on this subject if you want to see that even they recognise this obvious fact.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

1 minute ago, horsefly said:

You're living in cloud cuckoo land if you think membership of the CPTPP could even come close to replacing what we have lost by withdrawing from the SM. Go to the government's own website posts on this subject if you want to see that even they recognise this obvious fact.

I'm out of here. Have a good day.

[horsefly 4,298]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Well, you've just changed the subject; I've been talking to you specifically about the UK and Japan in response to Herman's post where I've explained my point very clearly and in simple terms. If you're still not getting it, there's nothing more I can do to help you.

Go back and read the posts again and stop being so bloody disingenuous. You made specific claims about MY posts that you simply can not defend because they are clearly fallacious.

[horsefly 4,298]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm out of here. Have a good day.

So, boredom trumps honesty.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

2 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Go back and read the posts again and stop being so bloody disingenuous. You made specific claims about MY posts that you simply can not defend because they are clearly fallacious.

I made no claims about any of your posts. I'm really not interested in getting into another pointless argument with you where you get more and more insulting trying to bait a reaction. Have a good day .

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[horsefly 4,298]

9 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I made no claims about any of your posts. I'm really not interested in getting into another pointless argument with you. Have a good day .

Christ! You're getting more Trumpian by the day. You do realise that everyone can read the posts and see that that is exactly what you did!!!

Your words to me: "You're completely ignoring the fact that global economies are being turned upside down by many other factors ..."

Edited November 27, 2022 by horsefly

[Herman 9,756]

25 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I edited, to lay it out, but I'll say it again: If this slump in trade isn't caused by Brexit, the subject of a slump in trade with Japan isn't relevant to a thread on Brexit.

Herman's original post implied a connection between the Japan continuity agreement and the recent slump in trade with Japan, which everyone seems to agree aren't connected as was my original point, so we can move on.

I think that it is implying that trade was supposed to grow after the brilliant brexit trade deal, not slump.

[Yellow Fever 3,772]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And this is an important point about CPTPP membership, because components from CPTPP members will count towards accumulation for tariff-free export of UK manufactured goods to the EU, which helps restore the UK as a geographically local base of manufacture.

This is the typical sort of Brexiteer argument continuously made by those that have no actual first-hand experience of the real word of import/export and the issues and the complexity with 'country of origin' and the paper trail that's needed to prove say 60% UK or EU or whatever is needed for manufactured goods. Its rather like Truss's 'Australian' deal that all comes undone in practice.

No company wants to employ a whole new department just to keep track (and for purposes of audit) rafts of CoO components and prices (and of course you also need CoO information provided by your suppliers). Simply added red tape. FYI we hold an 'approved exporter authorization number' needed for the likes of S.Korea. etc which is exactly this already - think it removed 8% duty there.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

5 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Christ! You're getting more Trumpian by the day. You do realise that everyone can read the posts and see that that is exactly what you did several times!!!

I'm not getting more Trumpian. You did, however, just quote me and take the time to edit the middle of the quoted sentence out and persist with more insults, which makes the accusation somewhat ironic.

But it has been a good week, the sun's shining, and there are better things to do than sitting here reading your comments.

[horsefly 4,298]

5 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

This is the typical sort of Brexiteer argument continuously made by those that have no actual first-hand experience of the real word of import/export and the issues and the complexity with 'country of origin' and the paper trail that's needed to prove say 60% UK or EU or whatever is needed for manufactured goods. Its rather like Truss's 'Australian' deal that all comes undone in practice.

No company wants to employ a whole new department just to keep track (and for purposes of audit) rafts of CoO components and prices (and of course you also need CoO information provided by your suppliers). Simply added red tape. FYI we hold an 'approved exporter authorization number' needed for the likes of S.Korea. etc which is exactly this already - think it removed 8% duty there.

Also worth noting the astonishing absurdity of withdrawing from the SM on the grounds of gaining independence to trade as one wishes, only to propose joining a very inferior trading union with far less economic reward. Something that makes even dear old Nige fulminate at his goggle-eyed best.

[horsefly 4,298]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm not getting more Trumpian. You did, however, just quote me and take the time to edit the middle of the quoted sentence out and persist with more insults, which makes the accusation somewhat ironic.

But it has been a good week, the sun's shining, and there are better things to do than sitting here reading your comments.

I am more than happy to include the rest of your sentence if you so wish but as is the convention of a seasoned former academic, I included what was relevant to the point I was making. You claimed you hadn't said a word in response to my points, the abbreviated quote I provided demonstrated that you are lying.

If you don't want people to respond to the utterly spurious nonsense you spout about Brexit perhaps you should not post it on a social media website.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

1 hour ago, horsefly said:

I am more than happy to include the rest of your sentence if you so wish but as is the convention of a seasoned former academic, I included what was relevant to the point I was making. You claimed you hadn't said a word in response to my points, the abbreviated quote I provided demonstrated that you are lying.

If you don't want people to respond to the utterly spurious nonsense you spout about Brexit perhaps you should not post it on a social media website.

Everything I've said was aimed at keeping on point of my original comment about the UK-Japan agreement and the fact of the irrelevance of the slump in UK exports to Japan to this thread, purposely avoiding getting sucked into your attempts to divert onto things irrelevant to that point, so if anyone's a liar it's you, you obnoxious weirdo.

I would say that your style is far more suited to online forums than academia, but maybe that's why you're no longer in academia.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

13 hours ago, Herman said:

 

To summarise, we can all agree that the following statement is correct: The slump in exports to Japan is not a consequence of Brexit, because the Japan UK trade agreement is almost indistinguishable from the agreement we would have with Japan as EU members; this change isn't remotely a consequence of the trade agreement as the Guardian implies.

[kick it off 1,948]

21 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

so if anyone's a liar it's you, you obnoxious weirdo.

I have no interest into wading into this debate, but I did just want to highlight the amusement I got from reading this in an Alan Partridge type internal voice.

No offence intended here LYB - Im not interested in this argument nor taking a side in it because I don't care enough to trawl through and see who said what. I just enjoyed the way this passage of text read.

Edited November 27, 2022 by kick it off

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

6 minutes ago, kick it off said:

I have no interest into wading into this debate, but I did just want to highlight the amusement I got from reading this in an Alan Partridge type internal voice.

No offence intended here LYB - Im not interested in this argument nor taking a side in it because I don't care enough to trawl through and see who said what. I just enjoyed the way this passage of text read.

That's alright. Horsefly has a knack for lowering you to his level and then beating you with his greater experience.

[Herman 9,756]

14 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

To summarise, we can all agree that the following statement is correct: The slump in exports to Japan is not a consequence of Brexit, because the Japan UK trade agreement is almost indistinguishable from the agreement we would have with Japan as EU members; this change isn't remotely a consequence of the trade agreement as the Guardian implies.

Nope, I'm blaming it on brexit and there's **** all you can do about it. 😀

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

Just now, Herman said:

Nope, I'm blaming it on brexit and there's **** all you can do about it. 😀

I know you're not the only one around here, which is why having made the point I intended to make, admitted or not, I'm quite happy to leave it there!

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Everything I've said was aimed at keeping on point of my original comment about the UK-Japan agreement and the fact of the irrelevance of the slump in UK exports to Japan to this thread, purposely avoiding getting sucked into your attempts to divert onto things irrelevant to that point, so if anyone's a liar it's you, you obnoxious weirdo.

I would say that your style is far more suited to online forums than academia, but maybe that's why you're no longer in academia.

Hahahaha! Truly hilarious! You persistently spatter this website with abusive comments to all and sundry but describe my willingness to stand up to your attempts to bully by calling me "obnoxious". Yet again you start something you don't have the intellectual ability to pull off. My protocol is simple; you start using abusive comments to me then you can expect me to respond in kind. Keep it civil then so will I.

Herman and everyone else have made the ENTIRELY relevant point that the Japanese deal was heralded as a triumph for Brexit "freedom" to do deals that would benefit the UK economy. The fact that it has achieved nothing of the sort, and, along with every other deal, has actually contributed to a post-Brexit economy that every expert recognises has significantly financially damaged the UK (and will continue do so into the future) is clearly something you don't possess the intellectual powers to grasp. Christ! even this government admits Brexit has damaged the economy to the tune of at least 4% of GDP and yet you continue to play the Farage poodle.

(BTW, to be called an "obnoxious weirdo" by you of all people is a badge of honour I shall wear proudly. Thanks! that made my day)

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That's alright. Horsefly has a knack for lowering you to his level and then beating you with his greater experience.

Diddums! You poor little birdy

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I know you're not the only one around here, which is why having made the point I intended to make, admitted or not, I'm quite happy to leave it there!

BTW you've "left it there" about five times now. About time you stuck to your promise. But then again since when did a Brexiteer ever keep a promise.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

22 minutes ago, horsefly said:

BTW you've "left it there" about five times now. About time you stuck to your promise. But then again since when did a Brexiteer ever keep a promise.

It's a polite way of trying to bring it to an end, but you just keep going with your silly point-scoring childishness. And as I've said many times, I voted remain in the referendum and twice for the liberal democrats in 2017 and 2019.

Instead of the positive Brexit thread, you should maybe consider starting a post-Brexit grief counselling group. Having said that, I think that's pretty much what this thread is anyway.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[horsefly 4,298]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

It's a polite way of trying to bring it to an end, but you just keep going with your silly point-scoring childishness. And as I've said many times, I voted remain in the referendum and twice for the liberal democrats in 2017 and 2019.

Instead of the positive Brexit thread, you should maybe consider starting a post-Brexit grief counselling group.

Make that 6! Hahahahaha! much love, from an Obnoxious Weirdo

Edited November 27, 2022 by horsefly

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

Just now, horsefly said:

Make that 6 Hahahahaha!

QED.

[horsefly 4,298]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

QED.

You can't even find the right Latin tag. Please stop, the laughing is getting painful.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

Just now, horsefly said:

You can't even find the right Latin tag. Please stop, the laughing is getting painful.

QED: quod erat demonstrandum, or "what was to be shown", which in this case was the point that you don't stop with your childishness. Having said that, I'm not sure what the latin for 'what has been shown again and again' is.

[horsefly 4,298]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

QED: quod erat demonstrandum, or "what was to be shown", which in this case was the point that you don't stop with your childishness. Having said that, I'm not sure what the latin for 'what has been shown again and again' is.

Oh God it just gets better and better! You call me an "obnoxious weirdo" because you are unable to answer a single point raised refuting your "arguments", then claim it is me that is "childish". Takes some level of ignorance to fail to see the irony. Perhaps QED was the right tag, I just failed to see that you meant it as a comment on your own posts.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,546]

8 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Oh God it just gets better and better! You call me an "obnoxious weirdo" because you are unable to answer a single point raised refuting your "arguments", then claim it is me that is "childish". Takes some level of ignorance to fail to see the irony. Perhaps QED was the right tag, I just failed to see that you meant it as a comment on your own posts.

You really do love slanging matches don't you? Seriously, do you really have nothing better to do? Do respond if you wish; it won't be read by me.

Edited November 27, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie