The Positive Brexit Thread

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

32 minutes ago, Herman said:

 

It's like the Berlin Airlift all over again. 

[Bill 1,788]

23 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

It's like the Berlin Airlift all over again. 

Hungry British children cheer as plucky EU pilots beat the blockaded ports to bring much needed food supplies into Blighty

[Herman 9,764]

🤣🤣🤣

If you look closely you can see a packet of Haribo being chucked out of the window.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

On 04/12/2020 at 09:30, PurpleCanary said:

Ah, the quiet optimist! The problem is that while there can be give and take over, say, fish, and you could even have (as BF has I think said) a very basic deal over that issue, or even trade generally, that could be revisited in 2021, the EU is not going to start trusting Bojo, or any potential Tory leader, any more than they do now, which is to say not at all.

So as I see it the EU needs to have the rules on state aid etc settled now, and that would very much include a cast-iron mechanism for ensuring they are kept. And any cast-iron mechanism is going to be anathema to hardline Brexiters. But I could be wrong!

Today's FT story is probably the best summary of how things stand. Based on it, my swingometer certainly hasn't not twitched back to the mid-point between Lousy Deal and No-Deal. I would be drummed out of the City if I posted a link etc, but probably the key paragraph is this, which gives the lie to the predictable UK headlines that it is just France that is the problem:

 

Ms von der Leyen has to contend with a disgruntled group of governments including France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, Spain and Italy, which have warned Mr Barnier that they will reject any deal that does not contain robust level playing field guarantees to protect their economies from unfair British competition.

Edited December 6, 2020 by PurpleCanary

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

Today's FT story is probably the best summary of how things stand. Based on it, my swingometer certainly hasn't not twitched back to the mid-point between Lousy Deal and No-Deal. I would be drummed out of the City if I posted a link etc, but probably the key paragraph is this, which gives the lie to the predictable UK headlines that it is just France that is the problem:

 

Ms von der Leyen has to contend with a disgruntled group of governments including France, the Netherlands, Denmark, Belgium, Spain and Italy, which have warned Mr Barnier that they will reject any deal that does not contain robust level playing field guarantees to protect their economies from unfair British competition.

As someone prepared to suffer the wrath of the self righteous I will post the link

https://www.ft.com/content/592dd543-3c9c-4a95-9b30-121520f33bce

and state that if naughty folk are so minded they can access this by using the bypass paywalls add on in Firefox

however this does all seem o point to lying on an industrial scale when previously we were told

https://storage.googleapis.com/cdn.thelondoneconomic.com/wpcontent/uploads/2020/10/067f86c6-vt3utpyfybqpdxvs.mp4

"we hold all the cards" if so then why are we talking about 'rolling the dice' - or airlifting in supplies ?

what happened to the supposed 'oven ready deal'....was that merely yet another lie to get themselves elected ?

nothing the UK are now trying to worm out of was not known and warned about before the referendum, and likewise when the WA was signed by the UK

and it still begs the question - who is really the guilty party, those who have spent the last five years lying through their teeth or those who unquestionably supported what were quite blatant lies ?

 

 

[Jools 584]

13 hours ago, Herman said:

 

Aye, Sir Nigel of Farage and his Reform Party should do well next year, after BJ's annus horribilus 👍

[Bill 1,788]

On 27/07/2020 at 12:37, SwindonCanary said:

why can't we trade with other Counties until we've left the EU at the end of the year  ?

so the UK has not been trading with the US, China, Japan etc in 2020, or in all the decades before ?

Swindo, a man of exceeding stupidity

[SwindonCanary 455]

13 minutes ago, Bill said:

so the UK has not been trading with the US, China, Japan etc in 2020, or in all the decades before ?

Swindo, a man of exceeding stupidity

all trade deals start in 2021 who's stupid now ?

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

4 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

all trade deals start in 2021 who's stupid now ?

It's still you. 

[Bill 1,788]

3 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

all trade deals start in 2021 who's stupid now ?

your words were

'why can't we trade with other Counties'

now assuming you mean countries, you are stating that we are not currently trading with those and other countries

so are we trading with them or not until 2021 ?

[horsefly 4,300]

4 minutes ago, Bill said:

your words were

'why can't we trade with other Counties'

now assuming you mean countries, you are stating that we are not currently trading with those and other countries

so are we trading with them or not until 2021 ?

I had to block him to give myself a chance to recover from his entrenched stupidity. Was getting very close to kicking the dog out of sheer frustration at such ignorance. Glad to see you're maintaining a sanguine air.

[Bill 1,788]

It's hard to imagine someone being this stupid ie that the UK is not trading with countries outside the EU.

I wonder if he will tell us how long this has been going on, and when did we stop trading with all these countries.

And what part of the EU grows the bananas we eat ?

banana plantation in Denmark

[Herman 9,764]

1 hour ago, Jools said:

Aye, Sir Nigel of Farage and his Reform Party should do well next year, after BJ's annus horribilus 👍

Aye, it's pretty well accepted that Fartage will exploit the millions of halfwitted rubes still out there. At least Johnson deserves the crap coming his way.

[Jools 584]

Just now, Herman said:

Aye, it's pretty well accepted that Fartage will exploit the millions of halfwitted rubes still out there. At least Johnson deserves the crap coming his way.

I'm not sure it's half-witted to support policies one believes in and benefits from financially...

I don't feel exploited one iota.

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

14 minutes ago, Jools said:

I'm not sure it's half-witted to support policies one believes in and benefits from financially...

I don't feel exploited one iota.

 

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

16 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Depends what the rule are

I don´t know what the rules would be either

However, I know that, according to Industryweek, Trump said about it´s precursor, The TPP....“would be the death blow” for American factories. “It would give up all of our economic leverage to an international commission that would put the interests of foreign countries above our own,” 

In order to get a deal, you have to give something up

[Herman 9,764]

36 minutes ago, Jools said:

I'm not sure it's half-witted to support policies one believes in and benefits from financially...

I don't feel exploited one iota.

This is a well known phenomenon amongst victims of scams. Rather than admitting to being scammed, with the shame therein, the victims double down in their support of the conmen. 

[horsefly 4,300]

22 minutes ago, A Load of Squit said:

 

And we all remember who posted on the Reform Party stream that he was going to follow Nige the fraud's advice. Yep! none other than Jonah Joolsiani. HaHa! you can't make this stuff up.

[sonyc 5,517]

It isn't looking quite as hopeful but given the 11th hour telephone meeting yesterday there is obviously some wriggle room or the meeting wouldn't go ahead.

I'm agreeing with Gordon Brown because I cannot see how a no deal suits anybody despite the prevailing media mood.

State Aid still looks complicated.

So much for Johnson's "oven ready" ....one of his biggest lies. And Brexiters bought it.

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

1 hour ago, Bill said:

your words were

'why can't we trade with other Counties'

now assuming you mean countries, you are stating that we are not currently trading with those and other countries

so are we trading with them or not until 2021 ?

Yep I missed an r 😲I state again Trade deals although they are put in writing, none start until 2021  

[Surfer 1,547]

1 hour ago, sonyc said:

So much for Johnson's "oven ready" ....one of his biggest lies. And Brexiters bought it.

And the only substantive issue -  fishing rights is a true red herring if there ever was one - being state aid to industry and a corresponding dispute resolution mechanism,  is exactly the same issue that has been mentioned for months. So are the UK negotiating team totally incompetent, or are they really hell bent on destroying any fairness and balance between labour and capital in the UK economy? 

p.s has anyone told the Tories that "state aid" to industry is anathema to free market economics? Why would you "pick winners and losers" - isn't the marketplace supposed to be best able to allocate resources? Or is this the first step to government corruption on a scale we in the UK have never seen but is a common feature of authoritarian systems?

Edited December 6, 2020 by Surfer

[sonyc 5,517]

19 minutes ago, Surfer said:

And the only substantive issue -  fishing rights is a true red herring if there ever was one - being state aid to industry and a corresponding dispute resolution mechanism,  is exactly the same issue that has been mentioned for months. So are the UK negotiating team totally incompetent, or are they really hell bent on destroying any fairness and balance between labour and capital in the UK economy? 

p.s has anyone told the Tories that "state aid" to industry is anathema to free market economics? Why would you "pick winners and losers" - isn't the marketplace supposed to be best able to allocate resources? Or is this the first step to government corruption on a scale we in the UK have never seen but is a common feature of authoritarian systems?

I am quite an advocate for a freer market in terms of state aid. So, in a sense I support the UK fighting for a sense of self-determination. It is a prickly area.

You've used the word 'balance' and that is spot on. The EU is worried about losing a balance (awkwardly, a different one for each industry of course). France has always massively supported it's car industries (and trains). If I was French, I would be happy to pay my taxes for those benefits.

Agree about the fish. I sense that will be sorted with a degree of unhappy compromise. I suppose this issue is what gets Brexiters all hot under the collar because it's something associated with our precious borders. The sea being visible and all that.

Level playing fields will be a continued debate I suspect for lots of countries. It's one of the less palatable aspects of being a member. Yet, the benefits arguably far outweigh.

I'm always suspicious of 'oven ready' type comments. The debates they're having now should not have been concertina'd into two final weeks of negotiation. It is reckless and totally irresponsible.

[dylanisabaddog 4,921]

19 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I am quite an advocate for a freer market in terms of state aid. So, in a sense I support the UK fighting for a sense of self-determination. It is a prickly area.

You've used the word 'balance' and that is spot on. The EU is worried about losing a balance (awkwardly, a different one for each industry of course). France has always massively supported it's car industries (and trains). If I was French, I would be happy to pay my taxes for those benefits.

Agree about the fish. I sense that will be sorted with a degree of unhappy compromise. I suppose this issue is what gets Brexiters all hot under the collar because it's something associated with our precious borders. The sea being visible and all that.

Level playing fields will be a continued debate I suspect for lots of countries. It's one of the less palatable aspects of being a member. Yet, the benefits arguably far outweigh.

I'm always suspicious of 'oven ready' type comments. The debates they're having now should not have been concertina'd into two final weeks of negotiation. It is reckless and totally irresponsible.

The only reason fishing is still on the table is to give the UK something to trade with. Fishermen are probably being thrown overboard as we speak. 

I heard Michael Howerd on the radio just now saying the deal is 98% done with just the level playing field to sort out. Bearing in mind that has been 50% or more of the problem since Day 1 it makes you wonder if Howerd actually believes this rubbish. Does he really believe that the EU is going to deal with a low tax low wage economy right on its doorstep? 

[Surfer 1,547]

Not without compensatory tariffs it won’t , no. 

[sonyc 5,517]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/06/brexit-uk-must-decide-in-next-few-days-whether-deal-can-be-struck-says-minister

Interesting.

[Surfer 1,547]

Re - 

The EU’s demand for a mechanism to ensure the UK is not able to undercut European businesses through diverging from Brussels on environmental, labour and social standards has dogged the negotiations.

i.e. demands to undercut the British people’s wages, healthcare and pension benefits and all environmental protections. In this regard the EU governments are the real friends of the British people and the UK government the enemy ....

[Bill 1,788]

4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

Yep I missed an r 😲I state again Trade deals although they are put in writing, none start until 2021  

it is clear that you have not the slightest idea about this hence your ability only the bleat out meaningless clichés

so why not explain how the UK is trading with non EU countries currently

[Bill 1,788]

3 hours ago, sonyc said:

I am quite an advocate for a freer market in terms of state aid. So, in a sense I support the UK fighting for a sense of self-determination. It is a prickly area.

You've used the word 'balance' and that is spot on. The EU is worried about losing a balance (awkwardly, a different one for each industry of course). France has always massively supported it's car industries (and trains). If I was French, I would be happy to pay my taxes for those benefits.

That makes no sense. No one is against the UK being able to enjoy "sense of self-determination." - the EU is merely pointing out that it is incompatible with being a member of the single market and the customs union.

Formula one has certain agreed restrictions on the cars. If you don't't want to abide by them, you don't get to be part of it.

It is that simple.

The standardisations the EU agreed upon (UK included) is not in itself the problem. It is that the UK is saying that it alone can have the rights without the responsibilities. There is no 'bit pregnant. If the UK wants the above 'freedom'then it has to accept that it will trade with the EU as a 'third country'.

I'm not sure why such a simple concept is not understood.

[horsefly 4,300]

28 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Re - 

The EU’s demand for a mechanism to ensure the UK is not able to undercut European businesses through diverging from Brussels on environmental, labour and social standards has dogged the negotiations.

i.e. demands to undercut the British people’s wages, healthcare and pension benefits and all environmental protections. In this regard the EU governments are the real friends of the British people and the UK government the enemy ....

Absolutely! And could you imagine our country doing trade negotiations with a non-EU country where we say it's absolutely fine for you to undercut all our environmental, social and labour standards so that you can sell your products in the UK at a massive price advantage over our own producers.

Come to think of it I wouldn't put that past the serially incompetent Liz Truss.

[Bill 1,788]

36 minutes ago, Surfer said:

Re - 

The EU’s demand for a mechanism to ensure the UK is not able to undercut European businesses through diverging from Brussels on environmental, labour and social standards has dogged the negotiations.

i.e. demands to undercut the British people’s wages, healthcare and pension benefits and all environmental protections. In this regard the EU governments are the real friends of the British people and the UK government the enemy ....

That in a nutshell is what Brexit has always been about. That the UK should aim to have it's workers not treated as they are in Sweden, but as in Swaziland.

And the irony is that the brexit thickos are always complaining about globalisation - goods made with cheap labour from across the globe, but that is the very thing brexit is aiming for. Only the cheap goods will be made by cheap UK labour.

While places like Bangladesh are seeing workers fighting for better pay and conditions, numpties in the UK are voting to erode them  !