The Positive Brexit Thread

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

21 hours ago, Surfer said:

And the only substantive issue -  fishing rights is a true red herring if there ever was one - being state aid to industry and a corresponding dispute resolution mechanism,  is exactly the same issue that has been mentioned for months. So are the UK negotiating team totally incompetent, or are they really hell bent on destroying any fairness and balance between labour and capital in the UK economy? 

p.s has anyone told the Tories that "state aid" to industry is anathema to free market economics? Why would you "pick winners and losers" - isn't the marketplace supposed to be best able to allocate resources? Or is this the first step to government corruption on a scale we in the UK have never seen but is a common feature of authoritarian systems?

Are you saying that when Covd strikes you are against any state support to industry?

Does that also include no state support to the arts, to culture?

Are against furlough payments to laid off workers unless the EU agrees?

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

20 hours ago, dylanisabaddog said:

The only reason fishing is still on the table is to give the UK something to trade with. Fishermen are probably being thrown overboard as we speak. 

I heard Michael Howerd on the radio just now saying the deal is 98% done with just the level playing field to sort out. Bearing in mind that has been 50% or more of the problem since Day 1 it makes you wonder if Howerd actually believes this rubbish. Does he really believe that the EU is going to deal with a low tax low wage economy right on its doorstep? 

When the EU is majorly made up of countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, Hungary, Poland it is a bit of a stretch to claim the UK is a low wage economy in comparison to the EU. 

And why would you not want the UK to be a lower tax country than the EU as this will attract inward investment?

[Bill 1,788]

28 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

I think you have made Bill's point for him 

Unfortunately poor mouse brain is too thick to grasp that - ie what a twt he has yet made of himself, yet again

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

17 hours ago, horsefly said:

Absolutely! And could you imagine our country doing trade negotiations with a non-EU country where we say it's absolutely fine for you to undercut all our environmental, social and labour standards so that you can sell your products in the UK at a massive price advantage over our own producers.

Come to think of it I wouldn't put that past the serially incompetent Liz Truss.

What a complete fkwit you are. Do you seriously for one minute imagine right now the EU trades with non-EU countries on the same environmental, social and labour countries as the EU? But that on January 1st the UK would have to?

It's clear why you are an academic and would never be allowed anywhere near a negotiating table. 

[Bill 1,788]

32 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

It seems to me the EU and remoaners have not understood what the UK has asked for. We do not want free access to the EU and all its services. all we wanted was a free trade deal like they have with others. This was never going to be good enough for the EU, they wanted us shackled to them in the hope we will still contribute to their upkeep and they can control how well we do now we have left.

you might have noticed mouse brain that pretty much everyone else has given up on pointing out your lies - as I expect there is as much futility as trying to explain to some Middle Eastern fanatic that they would not be given 72 virgins when they blow themselves up - but their relatives might be given 72 pieces to bury

that your nonsense is refuted by politicians on both sides should give you concern for re-thinking your constant peddling of blatant misinformation and lies, but it seems you are too stupid to even understand that

simply, I suspect, because you are an habitual liar - from lies about you attending the war memorial, to making thousands in  a day on the stock market to using an image from the internet claiming it to be your girlfriend - likewise that you had been appointed a manager at BMW

one day it might finally dawn on you, that the only person you have been really lying to is yourself

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

1 hour ago, SHRIMPER said:

SWINDO as an old seawife and bunkmate during his days in the Andrew would rather suck a Fisherman's friend.

You should lay off the personal insults. Swindon has put his life on the line in the service of his country. Something a coward like you has never done. 

[SHRIMPER 328]

37 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

You should lay off the personal insults. Swindon has put his life on the line in the service of his country. Something a coward like you has never done. 

You the "LOSER" has not read my posts about being in Belfast with the army in 71 when bombs were going off all around us you have you F.UCKWIT.

[horsefly 4,298]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

What a complete fkwit you are. Do you seriously for one minute imagine right now the EU trades with non-EU countries on the same environmental, social and labour countries as the EU? But that on January 1st the UK would have to?

It's clear why you are an academic and would never be allowed anywhere near a negotiating table. 

Oh dear Like the utter reta*rd you have always shown yourself to be you couldn't quite manage to read the whole sentence and understand it (or get your carer to do it for you).  The actual sentence says:

"And could you imagine our country doing trade negotiations with a non-EU country where we say it's absolutely fine for you to undercut all our environmental, social and labour standards so that you can sell your products in the UK at a massive price advantage over our own producers."

Nothing in that implies those standards will be identical, only that the standards being met do not undercut our own in such a way that it enables them to seriously undercut the prices of producers in our own country.

As ever you engage your mouth before your brain and display yourself to be the uneducated tw*at that you do with virtually every post. I assumed that even a buffoon like you would realise that in Ghana, for example, farm owners will not pay the same wages to a farmhand that would be paid in the UK. But clearly any half-competent government negotiator will seek to ensure  pro-rata trading terms that do not radically disadvantage home producers. Quite clearly (at least to people who have a brain bigger than a pea) the EU is refusing to let the UK undercut its producers by requiring a level playing field, and quite right too. FFS this is what trade negotiaters do, indeed, it's what your hero Trump did when he imposed tariffs on Chinese steel (i.e. he sought to prevent the Chinese exploiting their cheaper production conditions to the detriment of US producers).

Trying to work out what constitues fair trading terms between countries with very different economic, environmental,  and social conditions is extremely complex and the reason why trade deals often take years to complete. But it is certainly clear, that product by product, the negotiators seek to ensure that a "level playing field" ensures fair competition between all parties. Sometimes this involves the imposition of tariffs, other times it requires equality of workers rights etc, etc. 

That you don't understand this is frankly no suprise at all. That you are happy to display your pig-ignorance is a source of amusement to the rest of us.

 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by horsefly

[sonyc 5,511]

Not having any kind of a deal (let alone the UK cutting off from the union) will singly be the worst political catastrophe for decades.

It will damn hundreds of thousands of lives for years to come. It will mark the worst piece of business any British  government will have done. It will be the ruin of Johnson who will not be seen as a saviour, but even more a fool for presiding over a deal he told everyone was oven ready.

I still cannot believe the mood emerging from the media in the last few hours that there is less confidence of a deal. Unless it's s matter of the darkest hour just before dawn.

 

[Herman 9,756]

As has been pointed out, and we mostly all accept, this is all down to whether Johnson puts himself first or the country first, which will also be a first. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

Billy liar got it wrong with us not leaving the EU and he's wrong again with our trading, shame on you billy. 

[SwindonCanary 455]

• Members
•  262
• 2,167 posts

Report post

•  
•  

Posted 37 minutes ago

  1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

You should lay off the personal insults. Swindon has put his life on the line in the service of his country. Something a coward like you has never done. 

You the "LOSER" has not read my posts about being in Belfast with the army in 71 when bombs were going off all around us you have you F.UCKWIT.

 

I was also visiting Belfast in the early 70's 

[Surfer 1,547]

Unfortunately for those of us who value sanity, the logic of a “no deal” and actions post “ no deal” will be driven yet again by Tory party internal politics. Just like in US the “Freedom Caucus” vocal minority led Republicans around like a bull with a ring in their nose, never agreeing to any moderate proposal, so the Tory ERG will insist on the hardest of hard Brexits, and if they get that, the logic will be to widen any gaps in wages, environmental rules and state support for industries. Because if you have “reclaimed” sovereignty why would you not use it? If trading slows down and everyone sees Brexit to be a disaster why would you not push for changes to those very same rules to “solve” the effects the policy you wanted created?
 

The bottom line is rich, entitled pr*cks want even more money (OK fine) and are happy to screw the majority in the country with lower wages, less healthcare and a worse environment to get it (not fine) The UK version of US “trickle down economics” which started as “ tax cuts for job creators” and evolved into “ we will p*ss on you”
 

So unless Jools, RTB, Swindon etc are just trolls and have no physical presence to be effected by the decade(s) of austerity the Tories are either intentionally or accidentally about to impose on the country (yet again) maybe they should reflect on that. 
 

And maybe Johnson should reflect on the fact every populist revolution eventually devours its leaders when someone brutal comes along .... you protect yourself and your fellow countrymen by building consensus  not conflict.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Surfer

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear Like the utter reta*rd you have always shown yourself to be you couldn't quite manage to read the whole sentence and understand it (or get your carer to do it for you).  The actual sentence says:

"And could you imagine our country doing trade negotiations with a non-EU country where we say it's absolutely fine for you to undercut all our environmental, social and labour standards so that you can sell your products in the UK at a massive price advantage over our own producers."

Nothing in that implies those standards will be identical, only that the standards being met do not undercut our own in such a way that it enables them to seriously undercut the prices of producers in our own country.

As ever you engage your mouth before your brain and display yourself to be the uneducated tw*at that you do with virtually every post. I assumed that even a buffoon like you would realise that in Ghana, for example, farm owners will not pay the same wages to a farmhand that would be paid in the UK. But clearly any half-competent government negotiator will seek to ensure  pro-rata trading terms that do not radically disadvantage home producers. Quite clearly (at least to people who have a brain bigger than a pea) the EU is refusing to let the UK undercut its producers by requiring a level playing field, and quite right too. FFS this is what trade negotiaters do, indeed, it's what your hero Trump did when he imposed tariffs on Chinese steel (i.e. he sought to prevent the Chinese exploiting their cheaper production conditions to the detriment of US producers).

Trying to work out what constitues fair trading terms between countries with very different economic, environmental,  and social conditions is extremely complex and the reason why trade deals often take years to complete. But it is certainly clear, that product by product, the negotiators seek to ensure that a "level playing field" ensures fair competition between all parties. Sometimes this involves the imposition of tariffs, other times it requires equality of workers rights etc, etc. 

That you don't understand this is frankly no suprise at all. That you are happy to display your pig-ignorance is a source of amusement to the rest of us.

 

 

You are the one digging yourself in the deeper hole with your original logical fallacy that no scrabbling around at the bottom in the dirt will cover up your foolishness. 

Like most academics you think your brain farts smell sweeter than a rose only because your head is so far shoved up your arrogant ar se. 

[Rock The Boat 1,330]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

• Members
•  262
• 2,167 posts

Report post

•  
•  

Posted 37 minutes ago

  1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

You should lay off the personal insults. Swindon has put his life on the line in the service of his country. Something a coward like you has never done. 

You the "LOSER" has not read my posts about being in Belfast with the army in 71 when bombs were going off all around us you have you F.UCKWIT.

 

I was also visiting Belfast in the early 70's 

Then more shame on you. 

[Surfer 1,547]

3 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

When the EU is majorly made up of countries such as Greece, Portugal, Spain, Hungary, Poland it is a bit of a stretch to claim the UK is a low wage economy in comparison to the EU. 

And why would you not want the UK to be a lower tax country than the EU as this will attract inward investment?

a) No it isn’t. Agreed. But that is now, not where many post-Brexit business leaders may want us to go. 

b) No, never been true. Why do companies locate in cities and In States with “high” tax rates? They go there because to be taxed you have to create a taxable revenue or activity and those are best done where there is a skilled workforce - in those very same cities and States with “high” rates of taxation. 

The fact is rural areas are left with lower valued businesses tied to land, or more lax environmental regulation or operated by low wage employers - 

- cutting taxes is a fallacy right wing parties have been pushing for 50 years. If there was a corresponding requirement for that tax saved to be invested into the country OK, but there isn’t, the money flows elsewhere and you know it. 
 

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by Surfer

[horsefly 4,298]

56 minutes ago, Rock The Boat said:

You are the one digging yourself in the deeper hole with your original logical fallacy that no scrabbling around at the bottom in the dirt will cover up your foolishness. 

Like most academics you think your brain farts smell sweeter than a rose only because your head is so far shoved up your arrogant ar se. 

Ah! your usual intellectual response. Sadly you're never capable of hiding your cretinous stupidity. In every post it's laid out there for all of us to laugh at. Feel free to explain what my so called "logical fallacy" is supposed to be (inevitably you've used the wrong expression but that, of course, goes without saying). Your utter inability to understand the nature of international trade negotiations explains precisely why you're such an ardent Brexsh*iteer. Thick as Farage's sh*it that you are so happy to swallow like the obedient little coprophiliac that you are.

[Herman 9,756]

For when the blame surely comes.

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

2 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Then more shame on you. 

why ?

[sonyc 5,511]

8 hours ago, sonyc said:

My swingometer has twitched a touch further into No-Deal territory

@PurpleCanary I think maybe the pendulum has swing a little bit now hasn't it with the promise of the withdrawal of the internal markets bill, (originally and deliberately timed for maximum effect this week), if there can be a trade deal?

That and the reported / mooted moves on agreement on fishing (albeit later backtracked by the government, presumably not wanting to be seen as caving in so easily...cannot think of a fish joke here).

[Van wink 2,994]

3 minutes ago, sonyc said:

@PurpleCanary I think maybe the pendulum has swing a little bit now hasn't it with the promise of the withdrawal of the internal markets bill, (originally and deliberately timed for maximum effect this week), if there can be a trade deal?

That and the reported / mooted moves on agreement on fishing (albeit later backtracked by the government, presumably not wanting to be seen as caving in so easily...cannot think of a fish joke here).

Fishing is an irrelevance, it’s a topic which enables posturing but has no real relevance to the core issue of a level playing field. That is the insurmountable, has been since the May deal was rejected.

Edited December 7, 2020 by Van wink

[sonyc 5,511]

15 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Fishing is an irrelevance, it’s a topic which enables posturing but has no real relevance to the core issue of a level playing field. That is the insurmountable, has been since the May deal was rejected.

I agree fishing is just on the surface of things. I wondered whether this evening's news on the internal market bill might provide a glimmer of hope.

[Van wink 2,994]

Just now, sonyc said:

I agree fishing is just on the surface of things. I wondered whether this evening's news on the internal market bill might provide a glimmer of hope.

Hope it does, I’m sure this concession was all part of the plan and maybe is playing out the drama of an agreed script, but somehow I doubt it.

[sonyc 5,511]

2 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Hope it does, I’m sure this concession was all part of the plan and maybe is playing out the drama of an agreed script, but somehow I doubt it.

Yes, odd that Gove goes to Brussels when a team was already sent the day before. To me, it feels like the government have got a bit worried, discussed it and then Gove was hastily despatched to offer this little sardine.

I may of course have read far too much into this!

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

On 18/11/2020 at 08:19, SwindonCanary said:

Nobody does it like Bing

 

 

Banned by the BBC

Political correctness gone mad 😠

[Van wink 2,994]

7 minutes ago, sonyc said:

Yes, odd that Gove goes to Brussels when a team was already sent the day before. To me, it feels like the government have got a bit worried, discussed it and then Gove was hastily despatched to offer this little sardine.

I may of course have read far too much into this!

Goves’ little sardine 😁

[Herman 9,756]

36 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Fishing is an irrelevance, it’s a topic which enables posturing but has no real relevance to the core issue of a level playing field. That is the insurmountable, has been since the May deal was rejected.

We all know fish is pretty irrelevant in the great scheme of things. But fishing has a big emotional attachment to the brexiter (and brexit is far more emotional than factual). It's being used to keep them on side as the other stuff is "cold, boring politics". The trouble is that it is the one area that parasites like farage can attach themselves to and exploit to their joy if it is seen to be badly handled.

[sonyc 5,511]

5 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Goves’ little sardine 😁

Had to get fish into it somewhere🙂

We use this phrase in our house (after the great Eric and his speech ...seagulls and trawler)...as in "all that they've done there is to throw a sardine" and so on.

Edited December 7, 2020 by sonyc

[Bill 1,788]

25 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I agree fishing is just on the surface of things. I wondered whether this evening's news on the internal market bill might provide a glimmer of hope.

au contraire

most fishing is done below the surface

unless you are the hand crank/RTB thing, who seems to spend a lot of his time on here fishing for replies - perhaps we'll see Bagster back at some point 😉

[sonyc 5,511]

2 minutes ago, Bill said:

au contraire

most fishing is done below the surface

unless you are the hand crank/RTB thing, who seems to spend a lot of his time on here fishing for replies - perhaps we'll see Bagster back at some point 😉

Fish on the surface are far too easy to pick off Bill. Prefer deeper waters!