The Positive Brexit Thread

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

31 minutes ago, horsefly said:

Let's hope so. No sane human being wants the NI fiasco to continue as it is. What a shame that brexit has emptied the shelves of NI supermarkets, and brought violent thugs and terrorists back onto the streets.

This though is the key line from that report:

...said one EU diplomat, while cautioning progress depended on firm commitments from the UK and its “unequivocal support” for the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

 

[horsefly 4,300]

4 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

This though is the key line from that report:

...said one EU diplomat, while cautioning progress depended on firm commitments from the UK and its “unequivocal support” for the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

 

Spot on PC! And there is very little evidence that Johnson's mob will honour the agreement they freely signed and described as a wonderful deal.

[Well b back 3,208]

1 hour ago, SwindonCanary said:

EU and UK edge towards accord on trade rules for Northern Ireland

reports the financial times 

Thanks for that, that will be good news, however I wonder why we signed up to a deal originally that we either did not understand, or deliberately shafted NI.

[Well b back 3,208]

Maybe the Brits don’t want the jobs after all, with unemployment as it is you would think there would not be a problem.

The world’s largest daffodil grower is having to let hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of flowers rot following Brexit.

Varfell Farms, at Long Rock, Penzance, produces 500 million stems a year and needs 700 workers to pick them.

However, since Covid and the end of free movement following Brexit, the business only has around 400 flower pickers as many of its workers have previously come from EU countries.

The business’ owner Alex Newey told Radio 4’s The World This Weekend that it has to let daffodils rot in the fields as a result.

“We can’t harvest them, we don’t have enough pickers to pick them. We’re losing hundreds of thousands of pounds,” he said.

 

[BigFish 1,987]

42 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Torygraph
Trade between the UK and France bounced back towards normal in March as firms adjusted to life after Brexit, according to analysis by French customs officials.

Imports from Britain climbed to 107pc of typical levels after taking Covid effects into account, the research found - with exports back at 96pc.

( after taking Covid effects into account, whatever that means ? )

Thanks @Van wink, I saw this. Strangley the article online gives no attribution to where the Telegraph got their figures from. Abysmal journalism.

[BigFish 1,987]

38 minutes ago, PurpleCanary said:

This though is the key line from that report:

...said one EU diplomat, while cautioning progress depended on firm commitments from the UK and its “unequivocal support” for the Brexit withdrawal agreement.

 

"......and the construction of border inspection posts." was the clause I thought would be contentious.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

46 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Thanks @Van wink, I saw this. Strangley the article online gives no attribution to where the Telegraph got their figures from. Abysmal journalism...............

................or as we would normally describe it - business as usual at the Torygraph.

It is really shocking how far standards have dropped at the Telegraph - of course they've always been closely aligned to the Tories but it doesn't seem so long ago (15 years?) that they considered themselves to be a quality and serious newspaper with some very good journalists.

Presumably they're suffering from having to compete with the Mail and Express in a shrinking market of ageing male RWNJs - and if that is the best strategy they can come up with then no wonder that the paper is a pile of cr@p nowadays.

[Barbe bleu 826]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Thanks @Van wink, I saw this. Strangley the article online gives no attribution to where the Telegraph got their figures from. Abysmal journalism.

I think your line of attack is all wrong here.  The figures will turn out to be accurate and papers of all tribes frequently do not reveal their sources.  How many times do they cite 'an unnamed source' or 'a commissioner who wanted to remind anonymous' ?  Are we to call all articles written in such circumstances 'abysmal journalism'? Of course not.

Is the bigger issue the fact that exports to the UK  from the EU appear to be in recovery but imports from the UK are lagging?

Why is the EU seemingly winning the war of the technical barriers and what does this say about (insert target here).

Edited April 12, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[BigFish 1,987]

Just now, Barbe bleu said:

I think your attack line is wrong here.  The figures will turn out to be accurate and papers of all tribes frequently do not reveal their sources.  How many times do they cite 'an unnamed source' or 'a commissioner who wanted to remind anonymous' ?  And are we to call articles written in such circumstances abysmal journalism? Of course not.

Is the bigger issue the fact that exports to the UK  from the EU appear to be in recovery but imports from the UK arw lagging?

Why is the EU seemingly winning the war of the technical barriers and what does this day about (insert target here).

Two points, firstly gathering economic data is an expensive technical activity. This is not a leak or an opinion. If they have numbers they should be published from a reputable source. As it stands the most sensible analysis is that this a puff piece based on wish-fulfillment that cannot be backed by facts.

Secondly, this may be the result of the UK not actually implementing the CTA at UK borders.

[Barbe bleu 826]

21 minutes ago, BigFish said:

this a puff piece based on wish-fulfillment

But this describes 99% of the stuff on this forum!  Maybe this will be reduced whilst bill is on a well deserved holiday?

In my opinion It's all about technical barriers to trade and who will win this skirmish . Shame that it can be described in such ways but that is where we are at.

 

Edited April 12, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[Van wink 2,994]

1 hour ago, BigFish said:

Thanks @Van wink, I saw this. Strangley the article online gives no attribution to where the Telegraph got their figures from. Abysmal journalism.

I tried to find some source material for this but all I turned up were further reports referencing this story. Will have to wait and see what official data for March shows.

[BigFish 1,987]

Just now, Van wink said:

I tried to find some source material for this but all I turned up were further reports referencing this story. Will have to wait and see what official data for March shows.

...........I don't think we actually have Febuary's yet

[BigFish 1,987]

Just now, Barbe bleu said:

But this describes 99% of the stuff on this forum!  Maybe this will be reduced whilst bill is on a well deserved holiday?

In my opinion It's all about technical barriers to trade and who will win this skirmish . Shame that it can be described in such ways but that is where we are at.

Very true @Barbe bleu

I am not sure what you mean by "this skirmish", but will try to respond. There are no winners, the UK balance of payments may improve, although the Telegraph article seems to imply it has got worse, but the most important metric is the volume of trade and its impact on GDP. Both Exports and Imports are positive to GDP. Exports in terms of the cost of manufacture and imports in terms of services and taxation. Reduce either and you reduce GDP. Technical barriers naturally reduce both, it that firms will no longer engage in marginal activity and consumers will substitute more accessible or cheaper alternatives when the cost of the technical barriers is accounted for. So far, so theoeretical. How anyone can make formal judgements on the impact during the Covid led depression on both sides of the equation is beyond me. What we do know is that the UK did not take control of its borders on the 1st Jan because it was not ready, the infrastructure, IT systems and manpower was not in place. So the borders remain open during a grace period. The EU was ready, and the technical barriers are in place. So while we can expect that "teething" problems are gradually ironed out, there will be another hit to GDP when the UK implements the border. Brexiteers expect there to be some substituition, as @Rock The Boat talks about, and this may increase in the long term. In the short term it is unlikely that we will substitute much in the way of BMWs, French wine and Italian cheese so the impact is likely to be higher inflation than would normally be. But seeing as inflation is very low this is unlikely to be significant.

[Barbe bleu 826]

33 minutes ago, BigFish said:

Very true @Barbe bleu

I am not sure what you mean by "this skirmish", but will try to respond. There are no winners, the UK balance of payments may improve, although the Telegraph article seems to imply it has got worse, but the most important metric is the volume of trade and its impact on GDP. Both Exports and Imports are positive to GDP. Exports in terms of the cost of manufacture and imports in terms of services and taxation. Reduce either and you reduce GDP. Technical barriers naturally reduce both, it that firms will no longer engage in marginal activity and consumers will substitute more accessible or cheaper alternatives when the cost of the technical barriers is accounted for. So far, so theoeretical. How anyone can make formal judgements on the impact during the Covid led depression on both sides of the equation is beyond me. What we do know is that the UK did not take control of its borders on the 1st Jan because it was not ready, the infrastructure, IT systems and manpower was not in place. So the borders remain open during a grace period. The EU was ready, and the technical barriers are in place. So while we can expect that "teething" problems are gradually ironed out, there will be another hit to GDP when the UK implements the border. Brexiteers expect there to be some substituition, as @Rock The Boat talks about, and this may increase in the long term. In the short term it is unlikely that we will substitute much in the way of BMWs, French wine and Italian cheese so the impact is likely to be higher inflation than would normally be. But seeing as inflation is very low this is unlikely to be significant.

I agree with most of this.  Capitalists across left and right would probably all agree that freeish international trade is 'good'  Any barriers therefore are 'bad'.

For both parties here of the two flavours of trade, whilst a mix is highly desirable, exports are preferable to imports.  

What both parties are now doing is to try to tilt the balance in favour of exports  without reducing trade overall and in the long run.  I suspect that if we examine the EU /Canada free trade agreement we will probably be able to see similar things ( I'm hypothesising but veterinary inpections required but a lack of qualified vets reducing the ability of the Canada agricultural industry to benefit from lowered tariff barriers?)

Of course these also need to be balanced against domestic political considerations and the need for internal messaging.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Barbe bleu

[horsefly 4,300]

4 hours ago, SwindonCanary said:

They were warned 

Indeed they were! Yet people like them and you still voted for brexit.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

12 hours ago, Rock The Boat said:

Grow our own courgettes and strawberries in January, how does that work? Anyway, I said we would switch from Greek and Spanish suppliers to North African and seems I am proved, though to be fair it wasn't hard to imagine this scenario. 

I bought some lovely melons this weekend. Sourced from Brazil. So many new countries wager to trade with us 

About time we started growing seasonal. And using our land for food and not rape seed or daffodils

We can can get by without Strawberries at Christmas and Sprouts at Wimbledon.

We are supposed to be going green yet are so prepared to fly in melons from Brazil?

Lunacy.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

2 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

I think your line of attack is all wrong here.  The figures will turn out to be accurate and papers of all tribes frequently do not reveal their sources.  How many times do they cite 'an unnamed source' or 'a commissioner who wanted to remind anonymous' ?

........when quoting trade figures I would say hardly ever, why on earth would they?

[horsefly 4,300]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/brexiteer-accidentally-blames-the-problems-in-northern-ireland-on-brexit/ar-BB1fyVl7?ocid=msedgntp

[Van wink 2,994]

4 hours ago, Barbe bleu said:

But this describes 99% of the stuff on this forum!  Maybe this will be reduced whilst bill is on a well deserved holiday?

In my opinion It's all about technical barriers to trade and who will win this skirmish . Shame that it can be described in such ways but that is where we are at.

 

Is Bill on holiday?   I think thats what he calls his rehab but don't quote me on that, just in case I used a slightly different terminology from him and hence will be branded a liar?

Where has he gone?  North Korea?

[Jools 584]

5 hours ago, horsefly said:

Indeed they were! Yet people like them and you still voted for brexit.

And a poll today carried out by JL Partners for the fanatically pro-Remainiac Bloomberg says 54% of people would vote to stay out in a rerun of the referendum, coco 👍 Rather coincides with the news that socialist rags such as Buzzfeed are down heavily in revenue 😉

Will you and your Lefty cohorts here at the Pink'Un ever tire of being useful idiots?  

[horsefly 4,300]

1 minute ago, Jools said:

And a poll today carried out by JL Partners for the fanatically pro-Remainiac Bloomberg says 54% of people would vote to stay out in a rerun of the referendum, coco 👍 Rather coincides with the news that socialist rags such as Buzzfeed are down heavily in revenue 😉

Will you and your Lefty cohorts here at the Pink'Un ever tire of being useful idiots?  

You're not even a useful idiot, just a very obvious idiot of the kind that a village would be proud to ridicule.

[SwindonCanary 455]

watch horse flee jump on this ! 

Edited April 12, 2021 by SwindonCanary

[Herman 9,767]

Are we having another referendum then? 

[horsefly 4,300]

12 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

watch horse flee jump on this ! 

Oh dear dumbo! Now perhaps you'd like to tell us how this poll (I can find any number of others that contradict it) makes the slightest difference to the reality of the disaster that brexit has inflicted on the UK's SMEs. Is this all you are capable of coming up with? Surely you have an answer to the chaos caused by the NI protocol.

[Van wink 2,994]

49 minutes ago, Jools said:

And a poll today carried out by JL Partners for the fanatically pro-Remainiac Bloomberg says 54% of people would vote to stay out in a rerun of the referendum, coco 👍 Rather coincides with the news that socialist rags such as Buzzfeed are down heavily in revenue 😉

Will you and your Lefty cohorts here at the Pink'Un ever tire of being useful idiots?  

I must confess I don’t find those figures surprising.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

50 minutes ago, Jools said:

And a poll today carried out by JL Partners for the fanatically pro-Remainiac Bloomberg says 54% of people would vote to stay out in a rerun of the referendum, coco 👍 Rather coincides with the news that socialist rags such as Buzzfeed are down heavily in revenue 😉

Will you and your Lefty cohorts here at the Pink'Un ever tire of being useful idiots?  

Come on then. Get your dodgy avatar to finish the argument once and for all and lets have another vote.

We have a new Government every five years. Why not a referendum?

Was that a bottle smashing on the floor?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Van wink said:

I must confess I don’t find those figures surprising.

Because of the pathetic effort of a vaccine rollout in Europe, the result is not extraordinary.

[Herman 9,767]

I think I found the real reason. (A bit sweary.)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EywvdhcW8AEixID?format=jpg&name=900x900

[ricardo 7,395]

20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Because of the pathetic effort of a vaccine rollout in Europe, the result is not extraordinary.

I thought you said this had nothing to do with it😉

[Herman 9,767]

Technically the vaccine rollout has nothing to do with brexit but the British press have played another blinder in persuading the British people that it was. Well done.👍