The Positive Brexit Thread

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

33 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

James Dyson isn’t a Brexit hypocrite | The Spectator

The Spectator isn't a reliable source to quote - Everyone else.

 

[horsefly 4,300]

56 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

James Dyson isn’t a Brexit hypocrite | The Spectator

"Hypocrite", "traitor", who cares what you call the lying ar*sehole who deserted the UK in order to move his company HQ to Singapore in order to pay lower taxes on his £16 billion fortune. Must be a struggle to survive on that paltry sum.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/james-dyson-singapore-penthouse-wallich-residence-11709030

Edited April 15, 2021 by horsefly

[horsefly 4,300]

Just to restore a bit of balance to poor old Dyson I should point out that he was a fervent supporter of the single european currency

(https://primaryfacts.com/8406/james-dyson-facts-and-information-about-the-british-inventor/#:~:text=James Dyson is a strong supporter of a,long yacht%2C one of the largest in Britain.)

Also he wasn't the only ar*sehole brexit supporter who made sure his company fled the country once they ensured brexit was achieved:

https://bylinetimes.com/2020/12/09/brexiters-fled-britain/

 

 

[Van wink 2,994]

2 hours ago, horsefly said:

Oh dear! You clearly don't posses the nous to work out the implications of your own statements. I'll let others see what is blatantly obvious in the posts of yours I quoted. So let's move onto your new lie:

"However the freedom of movement laws allowed for the wages of the local workforce to be undercut by the new arrivals. Companies that paid their staff properly were unable to compete with those that took advantage of this abundance of cheap labour"

Please show me where it says in the laws about "Freedom of Movement" that employers were allowed to undercut the legal minimum wage when employing EU workers. 

 

 

Please try to discuss without constantly calling people liars, it doesn't in any way assist your argument.

[horsefly 4,300]

32 minutes ago, Van wink said:

Please try to discuss without constantly calling people liars, it doesn't in any way assist your argument.

If it's a lie it's a lie. This is a clear lie so that's why I have called it a lie. Not only that, it is a lie that seeks to put the blame on a section of the population (foreign workers) who have come in for a lot of abuse because of such lies. Further, to claim that "I am constantly calling people liars" is also a lie.

Edited April 15, 2021 by horsefly

[SwindonCanary 455]

SAYS Billy liar  🤣 

[horsefly 4,300]

13 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

SAYS Billy liar  🤣 

Stop lying Polly

[SwindonCanary 455]

EU-UK trade deal passes key vote in European Parliament

Thu, 15th Apr 2021 15:54

(Alliance News) - The ratification of the EU's massive trade deal with Britain easily cleared a key hurdle in the European Parliament on Thursday, with MEPs demanding further reassurances on the thorny issue of Northern Ireland.

 

Meeting jointly, the trade and foreign affairs committees gave approval with 108 votes in favour, one against and four abstentions, in a necessary step before a full session of parliament votes on the ratification of the deal.

[horsefly 4,300]

7 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

EU-UK trade deal passes key vote in European Parliament

Thu, 15th Apr 2021 15:54

(Alliance News) - The ratification of the EU's massive trade deal with Britain easily cleared a key hurdle in the European Parliament on Thursday, with MEPs demanding further reassurances on the thorny issue of Northern Ireland.

 

Meeting jointly, the trade and foreign affairs committees gave approval with 108 votes in favour, one against and four abstentions, in a necessary step before a full session of parliament votes on the ratification of the deal.

Excellent news! So the EU has done its part now let's hope the UK doesn't screw it up

[ricardo 7,395]

4 hours ago, Van wink said:

Please try to discuss without constantly calling people liars, it doesn't in any way assist your argument.

But reveals the true log in, or are we all becoming infected with Wooden Top itis😉

[Van wink 2,994]

27 minutes ago, ricardo said:

But reveals the true log in, or are we all becoming infected with Wooden Top itis😉

Oh undoubtedly 😉

[Barbe bleu 826]

4 hours ago, Van wink said:

Please try to discuss without constantly calling people liars, it doesn't in any way assist your argument.

It completely alienates people. 

 If he wanted to have a genuine discussion or convince people of his argument he wouldn't act like he does. He is probably clever enough to realise that too.  Perhaps then he is interested only in the fight?

[Herman 9,764]

 

[SwindonCanary 455]

Lord Frost and EU counterpart Maros Sefcovic set for crunch Brexit talks in Brussels tonight amid hopes of breakthrough on Northern Ireland border checks as MEPs FINALLY vote in favour of UK trade deal

[Fen Canary 823]

6 hours ago, Van wink said:

Please try to discuss without constantly calling people liars, it doesn't in any way assist your argument.

It also helps if he debates the points I’ve actually made, rather than the ones he wants to answer

[Jools 584]

According to a survey of chief financial officers by the accountancy firm Deloitte, 80% of bosses believe Britain is on the cusp of a strong recovery. The upswing in confidence helped push expectations for hiring and business investment to the highest level in almost six years, with respondents saying they anticipate rising profits over the next year.

Two-thirds think the bulk of their employees will return to the office by the autumn
Brexit dropped from being their top worry to seventh place.

As lockdown curbs wind down and mass vaccination generates herd immunity, companies are set to go on a hiring spree. 

 

Of course the usual suspects will turn the above into bad news 💤💤💤

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

8 hours ago, Fen Canary said:

Many countries such as Australia, Canada, the Scandinavian nations all pay higher wages than the UK, and all do nicely and regularly appear near the top of happiness indexes 

My wage in Iceland is not much different to what I earned in the UK.  And I pay a whole lot more income tax 

[Fen Canary 823]

6 hours ago, horsefly said:

If it's a lie it's a lie. This is a clear lie so that's why I have called it a lie. Not only that, it is a lie that seeks to put the blame on a section of the population (foreign workers) who have come in for a lot of abuse because of such lies. Further, to claim that "I am constantly calling people liars" is also a lie.

I’ll say this one last time, although as I’ve said it numerous times previously I shouldn’t have to. I’ve never blamed the workers themselves, as in their situation I’d do the same. However they’ve been used as a source of cheap labour, which has undercut the wages of the local workforce. Spend 10 minutes on any large building site and you’ll see how the freedom of movement laws were used by the larger firms especially to import large numbers of trades and only paying around the minimum wage. They were able to do this solely because of the EU freedom of movement laws.

 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, Jools said:

According to a survey of chief financial officers by the accountancy firm Deloitte, 80% of bosses believe Britain is on the cusp of a strong recovery. The upswing in confidence helped push expectations for hiring and business investment to the highest level in almost six years, with respondents saying they anticipate rising profits over the next year.

Two-thirds think the bulk of their employees will return to the office by the autumn
Brexit dropped from being their top worry to seventh place.

As lockdown curbs wind down and mass vaccination generates herd immunity, companies are set to go on a hiring spree. 

 

Of course the usual suspects will turn the above into bad news 💤💤💤

There can only be an upward trend. Brexit has beggar all to do with that.

[Fen Canary 823]

1 minute ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

My wage in Iceland is not much different to what I earned in the UK.  And I pay a whole lot more income tax 

I was referring more to Norway, Sweden and Denmark to be honest. I’ll admit I’ve not much knowledge of Iceland’s economy

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,187]

3 minutes ago, Fen Canary said:

I was referring more to Norway, Sweden and Denmark to be honest. I’ll admit I’ve not much knowledge of Iceland’s economy

To be fair, I'm not sure we are "Scandinavia". I think we are only "Nordic"

And we do well in the happiness index. But not everyone is rich

I find Norway to be hugely expensive  even more so than Iceland, so I guess they need that money 

[Fen Canary 823]

50 minutes ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

To be fair, I'm not sure we are "Scandinavia". I think we are only "Nordic"

And we do well in the happiness index. But not everyone is rich

I find Norway to be hugely expensive  even more so than Iceland, so I guess they need that money 

It’s ridiculous in Norway. Though given the choice I’d rather live in a high wage high tax society than a low wage one, which was one of the points made by one of the posters much earlier in the thread, who implied higher wages were a bad thing for everybody.

[SwindonCanary 455]

Greenland voting to leave Denmark the EU are panicking

[SwindonCanary 455]

[Herman 9,764]

Please can you put a link to the places you get this stuff from. Thank you.

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

1 hour ago, Fen Canary said:

I’ll say this one last time, although as I’ve said it numerous times previously I shouldn’t have to. I’ve never blamed the workers themselves, as in their situation I’d do the same. However they’ve been used as a source of cheap labour, which has undercut the wages of the local workforce. Spend 10 minutes on any large building site and you’ll see how the freedom of movement laws were used by the larger firms especially to import large numbers of trades and only paying around the minimum wage. They were able to do this solely because of the EU freedom of movement laws.

Even leaving aside the issue of why the other more prosperous EU countries don't seem to have the same issues with FoM that you're claiming existed in the UK, if any of this were true then you would expect that now FoM has finished then we would see wages rising and UK workers gleefully taking up the resulting jobs becoming available - especially given the severely depressed state of the UK economy at the moment.

But in practice all we keep hearing about is UK businesses simply unable to recruit the British workers they require with damaging impacts on those businesses.

In reality, FoM has been one of several very convenient scapegoats used by successive Tory governments to divert blame away from the abject failure of their own economic and social policies. So far it seems to worked quite well for them but now, like so many of the Brexit myths and promises, it's all unravelling and replacement scapegoats seem to be in short supply - although some of the madder Brexiteers (Paul M for example) seem to be quite keen on blaming Remainers, apparently for warning them that many of the problems rhat are now occuring would occur..........🙄🤣

[A Load of Squit 5,162]

35 minutes ago, SwindonCanary said:

Greenland voting to leave Denmark the EU are panicking

Greenland left the EU in 1985.

 

[Fen Canary 823]

44 minutes ago, Creative Midfielder said:

Even leaving aside the issue of why the other more prosperous EU countries don't seem to have the same issues with FoM that you're claiming existed in the UK, if any of this were true then you would expect that now FoM has finished then we would see wages rising and UK workers gleefully taking up the resulting jobs becoming available - especially given the severely depressed state of the UK economy at the moment.

But in practice all we keep hearing about is UK businesses simply unable to recruit the British workers they require with damaging impacts on those businesses.

In reality, FoM has been one of several very convenient scapegoats used by successive Tory governments to divert blame away from the abject failure of their own economic and social policies. So far it seems to worked quite well for them but now, like so many of the Brexit myths and promises, it's all unravelling and replacement scapegoats seem to be in short supply - although some of the madder Brexiteers (Paul M for example) seem to be quite keen on blaming Remainers, apparently for warning them that many of the problems rhat are now occuring would occur..........🙄🤣

We’ve been gone for 3 months, and we’re in the middle of a pandemic. How quickly do you expect wages to rise?

As I’ve said previously, many of those industries have become addicted to cheap labour, and it’s no bad thing that it can now be curtailed. They have a choice, either pay higher wages to attract staff, or train their existing staff to perform the roles they require. It’s how our society of supply and demand is supposed to function, yet for some reason many on here who proclaim to be of the left seem happy for businesses to be able to import cheap labour rather than improve the lives of their workers.

“Between 2008 and 2014, for men at the 10th percentile [that is, in the bottom 10 per cent] of the weekly earnings distribution, pay [in real terms] fell by 20 per cent. Some recovery has occurred in the last five years, but even in 2019 real pay is still 12 per cent below its 2008 level for these people.

According to figures prepared by the Office for National Statistics, in autumn 2005 UK-born people held 26.1 million jobs in our labour market, while the foreign-born held 2.9 million. Today UK-born people hold 27.0 million jobs, an increase of slightly more than 3 per cent. Meanwhile the number of jobs held by the foreign-born has climbed to almost 5.8 million jobs, a virtual doubling.

Indeed, in the years of the Great Recession and its immediate aftermath the UK-born saw almost a million of their jobs disappear, while foreign-born employment rose strongly.

Further, reading of the statistical evidence is that that the boom in foreign-born employment was particularly in employment of those born in the European Union’s ten 2004 accession countries (Poland, Slovakia, etc).“

Do you believe that importing that many people had no effect on jobs, wages, housing and public services?

Finally immigration in and around the EU has caused political headaches for many countries, though I’ll admit it can be hard to seperate the FoM and refugee crisis when discussing the attitudes towards immigration on mainland Europe. In Sweden the Social Democrats are at their lowest support for a century, in Denmark the government has moved to the right in order to see off challenges from the DPP, Vox has gained ground in Spain, the AfD in Germany, the League in Italy, Le Pen in France. To say it has had no effect I believe is false.

The figures in quotation marks in the middle of my reply are from an piece written by economist Tim Congdon in 2019

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

4 hours ago, How I Wrote Elastic Man said:

To be fair, I'm not sure we are "Scandinavia". I think we are only "Nordic"

And we do well in the happiness index. But not everyone is rich

I find Norway to be hugely expensive  even more so than Iceland, so I guess they need that money 

Depends where you are in Norway. Oslo is VERY expensive. Not saying it's cheap in the rest of the country, but from my trips up in Tromso or Svalbard, the prices seem somewhat more reasonable there. Oslo though....crikey.

Svalbard's cheap as - IIRC - it's a duty-free area. 

And yes, Greenland left the EU in 1985. Negotiations took close to four years to fully conclude, and back then 90% of their economy was on fish.

[Jools 584]

4 hours ago, keelansgrandad said:

There can only be an upward trend. Brexit has beggar all to do with that.

Great news the UK is going to to witness an upward trend DESPITE Brexit isn't it, Grandpapaski 🙃