getting harder to stand still let alone gain ground

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

Whilst the season start has been disappointing we do have some very decent players but success looks a long way off. A glance at the table shows half the clubs have been in the premiership over the last decade. Clubs with much bigger budgets than ours will spend heavily and still not reach the playoffs. The self funding model sounds good but it commits us to selling all our better players after a couple of decent seasons making it very difficult to build a successful side. Success needs lots of dosh or an inspirational manager. We have no more money than anyone else whilst for me farke has some attributes he is learning on the job and is no Lambert or Warnock. Things can be frustrating but with the value of players sold v reinvested even with some good buys mid table is probably as good as it gets unless a sugar daddy takes over or we appoint a real top notch up and coming manager . Enjoy the club the football and its ups and downs but digest a big chunk of realism

[Crafty Canary 495]

The die is cast and our future is to sell,sell,sell and hope the youngsters develop sufficiently to keep our heads above water. The quid pro quo of course is the club will gradually decline. We shall be able to compete in leagues 1 and 2 because the club''s there are run the same way we are. However we will find it increasingly difficult to compete in the Championship and I very much doubt that I''ll see City in the Premiership again. A shame but there it is.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="Crafty Canary"]The die is cast and our future is to sell,sell,sell and hope the youngsters develop sufficiently to keep our heads above water. The quid pro quo of course is the club will gradually decline. We shall be able to compete in leagues 1 and 2 because the club''s there are run the same way we are. However we will find it increasingly difficult to compete in the Championship and I very much doubt that I''ll see City in the Premiership again. A shame but there it is.[/quote]

I remember in 2003 we had no money to spend on players at all and yet we still got in the premier league against all the odds. We had very little to spend in 2011 and still got to the PL. I know the scenario gets harder the more clubs that have big money, but never say never.  An inspired choice of manager or a system that leads to success over a few years can happen. Millwall, whose resources are much less even than ours were pretty close to getting in the play offs last season.  It can happen at any stage and the dream is on every season - it can be done.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

The self funding model is deplorable in so far as it virtually relies on our selling any of our best players each year to balance the books.

As each season goes by we become more and more uncompetitive and there''s no guarantee that we''ll have a james maddison standard or value of player to sell each year.

This can''t be any sort of recipe for success, when you''re up against richer owners and a new swathe of relegated premier league clubs armed with parachute payments every summer.

For our board to not entertain the idea of outside investment is apalling and out of touch the today''s game....and will ultimately ruin us

[Highland Canary 76]

Are we that sure we will be competive from a financial perspective in tier three?

[River End Canary 18]

The issue with the self funding model is that the club in the eyes of the supporter has to be successful every season. If not the crowds dwindle less revenue and a weaker squad and so on and so on.

We have been in decline year on year for a number of years and this can only continue

Why some can''t see what is happening is incredible.

[Fuzzar 1,702]

Why do people keep saying we''ll have to sell our best players every year?

Recent sales have been made to cover the foreseen drop in income to meet the shortfall from the final parachute payment. We may choose to sell any player going forward if the price is right (like any other club in any other league), but we won''t have to sell.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,749]

.....because without investment, if we don''t sell we don''t gerenarate enough money to buy any new players...certainly not of the quality required to challenge for promotion in this league..therefore the squad remains largely the same or gets worse season upon season

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]The self funding model is deplorable in so far as it virtually relies on our selling any of our best players each year to balance the books.

As each season goes by we become more and more uncompetitive and there''s no guarantee that we''ll have a james maddison standard or value of player to sell each year.

This can''t be any sort of recipe for success, when you''re up against richer owners and a new swathe of relegated premier league clubs armed with parachute payments every summer.

For our board to not entertain the idea of outside investment is apalling and out of touch the today''s game....and will ultimately ruin us[/quote]

It depends whether attendances hold up, but if they do  then at a rough guess the self-funding model would need to rely on selling only one good player a season. And ideally that player would be replaced from within or from an astute signing. It would not keep on requiring the kind of mini-fire sale we have had recently.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

I would be surprised if our total non player sales income is much more than £30m with ticket sales being the largest source. Even with cost cutting I suspect running a club our size there will be much if any change out of that. That should still put us in a far better position than the millwall Preston Wigan and Brentfords but we probably need to sell at least a couple of our better players each season to balance the books and generate any transfer income. If Hernandez and Lewis have decent seasons what is the betting on still being here next season

[River End Canary 18]

[quote user="Fuzzar"]Why do people keep saying we''ll have to sell our best players every year?

Recent sales have been made to cover the foreseen drop in income to meet the shortfall from the final parachute payment. We may choose to sell any player going forward if the price is right (like any other club in any other league), but we won''t have to sell.[/quote]

Webber confirmed this at the fans forum last week. We need to sell one a year for a decent price to fund the club

[ron obvious 1,502]

What Fuzzar & PC said. This year has been exceptional because we''re suffering from the hangover of buying ''quality'' players (on big wages) for the PL who turned out not to be. YC mentions clubs that have all been around the top 6 last season & Wigan, who were in the PL from 2005-13, & says we''re in a better position.

When we get promoted - which we will, in the next couple of years - we need to approach the PL in a more intelligent manner, even if it makes relegation likely. We have to think long term (by definition of sustainability).

To stay in the PL would be difficult & would definitely necessitate selling players regularly. But we should make ourselves attractive to rising talent; imagine bringing on a new Maddison every couple of years!

And wouldn''t it make you proud, to have a good, honest, self-sustaining club like that? Competing with Russian oligarchs & stinking rich Chinese owners? It would me.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="Jim Bell"][quote user="Fuzzar"]Why do people keep saying we''ll have to sell our best players every year?

Recent sales have been made to cover the foreseen drop in income to meet the shortfall from the final parachute payment. We may choose to sell any player going forward if the price is right (like any other club in any other league), but we won''t have to sell.[/quote]

Webber confirmed this at the fans forum last week. We need to sell one a year for a decent price to fund the club[/quote]

When I posted I didn''t know he had said that, but it roughly backs up my rough guess of what the position would be. One potentially replaceable good player would have to be sold rather than all the good ones.

[Yorkshire Canary 118]

The key will always be getting a manager that does the basics well and gets the most out of what they have. I don''t think we have had that for quite a while. I give farke 6/10 there are worse out there but also others that would get a better tune out of this squad but that is another topic. That combination will be our best chance of going forward in the future a Lambert or Warnock type character that engenders confidence and team spirit

[Mike 2]

[quote user="ron obvious"]What Fuzzar & PC said. This year has been exceptional because we''re suffering from the hangover of buying ''quality'' players (on big wages) for the PL who turned out not to be. YC mentions clubs that have all been around the top 6 last season & Wigan, who were in the PL from 2005-13, & says we''re in a better position.

When we get promoted - which we will, in the next couple of years - we need to approach the PL in a more intelligent manner, even if it makes relegation likely. We have to think long term (by definition of sustainability).

To stay in the PL would be difficult & would definitely necessitate selling players regularly. But we should make ourselves attractive to rising talent; imagine bringing on a new Maddison every couple of years!

And wouldn''t it make you proud, to have a good, honest, self-sustaining club like that? Competing with Russian oligarchs & stinking rich Chinese owners? It would me.[/quote]

Sorry but this is not Disney world.

I had a conversation with a capital canary who said he would hate to be a Man City fan... and that is the sort of complete b#lls#it a lot of our fans come up with... who would not want our club at the top of the tree, buying the best players in the world... seemingly a section of our "support"... different world!

[hogesar 9,671]

I''m not sure this investment malarky is getting any more important despite the fact people keep harping on about it. It''s important to note the amount of people who were desperate for it before our double promotion. Then the one''s who wanted it when we came down under Neil Adams. But we went back up, again.

And now we''re being told investment is even more important because it just is, whilst Bolton have started the season well from League One and are currently 6th. It''s the championship. 

[Mello Yello 2,293]

We''ll be fine, both financially and football wise......We will all look back in mid-May and at the end of an absolutely successful season, then guffaw, snigger and chortle at the panic posts that are currently flouncing about on this forum. Our (soon to be rectified) initial poor start to this current campaign, is but a minor blip.....In our illustrious and industrious Board, DOF, Farke and superb squad, we trust.....

Mark my words....Oh yeah....

[whoareyou? 0]

Sadly football is no longer a sport in the way it used to be.

Its now about who has the wealthiest owners not about who can bring through the best players or manager. Even if you can find a gem or two in terms of players or managers, by definition they will end up at the clubs with the wealthiest owners.

At some point no doubt the financial bubble will burst and those who have been prudent will come out on top but when that might be nobody knows.

[Dicky 0]

[quote user="ron obvious"]What Fuzzar & PC said. This year has been exceptional because we''re suffering from the hangover of buying ''quality'' players (on big wages) for the PL who turned out not to be. YC mentions clubs that have all been around the top 6 last season & Wigan, who were in the PL from 2005-13, & says we''re in a better position.

When we get promoted - which we will, in the next couple of years - we need to approach the PL in a more intelligent manner, even if it makes relegation likely. We have to think long term (by definition of sustainability).

To stay in the PL would be difficult & would definitely necessitate selling players regularly. But we should make ourselves attractive to rising talent; imagine bringing on a new Maddison every couple of years!

And wouldn''t it make you proud, to have a good, honest, self-sustaining club like that? Competing with Russian oligarchs & stinking rich Chinese owners? It would me.[/quote]

I''ll have some of what you''re on please....

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="ron obvious"]But we should make ourselves attractive to rising talent; imagine bringing on a new Maddison every couple of years! [/quote]

With Maddison, I think the message is already clear to any youngster out there - we are a good club to grow and develop in - especially with a head coach who isn''t afraid to put them on the pitch.  It was a cause of quite a bit of frustration for me that Alex Neil - who came to us with a reputation for bringing on youngsters, largely failed to do so.  There may have been good reasons, like the desperation to get back into the PL while we still had parachute payments, but nevertheless it was frustrating - especially when the so called quality players failed to deliver.

Farke though has shown no fear in blooding youngsters and if Aarrons comes through this season as well as Godfrey and Thompson, then it will be even clearer to any young players looking in that Norwich is the place to be.  I don''t even think we need to be in the PL to attract youngsters, but I do think promotion will happen as a byproduct of the policies currently happening - and that of course will make us even more attractive as a club. 

Nothing is certain in football, we could go up, we could go down, we could stay in the mid-championship for years, but if the current way of going about things carries on and youngsters are seen to be getting a good go, then we will always attract good young players.

[BroadstairsR 2,164]

As has been suggested, the flaw in the self-sustaining model is that, because the better talent has to be regularly sold off to sustain it the outcome will be Championship mediocrity at best.

With nothing on the horizon interest in the team will wane and support will subside. The longer the club "sustains" it''s self the harder it will get because the fall in gate receipts will mean that there is a need to sell even more to cover the deficit. It is a vicious circle and ''pie in the sky'' reasoning that can only be justified by the hope that another miracle worker like Paul Lambert is found to break the cycle.

When Delia "saved" our club the finances she contributed were vital. Her money is mere peanuts 22 years on because the game has clearly not stood still.

She is in fact holding the club to ransom based upon yesterday''s money. The nepotism business and her proclaimed disregard for the supporters represents a slap in the face for all true fans. NCFC is far bigger than this women, and the business of running a football club in this day and age reveals her to be somewhat out of her depth, whilst her perceived sense of entitlement will gall all the more if she continues to be associated with the type of failure she has presided over for the past few season.

However, it is not all bad.

I have pinpointed it as being ''Delia,'' but of course that is not the case and she has certainly recognised the need to surround herself with the right expertise and with a certain amount of success in this.

The new approach introduced last season is both bold and innovative That it covers up a whole series of past mistakes need be overlooked as it makes nothing but sense to give it time to either succeed or fail.

I feel we have no choice but to be patient, whilst accepting that this is Delia''s last throw of the dice.

If we look as if we are about to emulate the mediocrity that ITFC has become as the season progresses then I feel that the clear discontent that will arise from the stands will bend her. She is no Robert Chase and he only held on for so long.

She has often stated that she is ''open to investment.'' May be she will be forced to be open for more as she realises that her policies amount to existing in a footballing quicksand.

[JF 694]

It’s a big ask to be able to sell one quality player a year to balance the books. I’m sure next season we will be able to sell Hernandez on for decent money but what happens when we have no one worth the sort of sums we need? If this is what’s needed for the club to be self sufficient then eventually the plan will fail.

[PurpleCanary 5,558]

[quote user="JF"]It’s a big ask to be able to sell one quality player a year to balance the books. I’m sure next season we will be able to sell Hernandez on for decent money but what happens when we have no one worth the sort of sums we need? If this is what’s needed for the club to be self sufficient then eventually the plan will fail.[/quote]

I don''t see that it is that difficult. One would have to be in the boardroom to know, but I imagine the kinds of losses we are envisaging are in the few millions a season. Nowhere near the kind of one-off black hole we have had to fill.Given what transfer fees are even in the Championship, where a decent but not outstanding player such as Waghorn goes for perhaps £5m or more, than it should not be impossible to have one such reasonable talent to sell each season to cover a loss. Either someone we have bought cheap, or a youth product. It does not have to mean we are always having to sell our best players.You mentioned that Hernandez''s value will almost certainly go up. I suspect that will also be true with Buendia. Perhaps with Pukki and Trybull as well. Webber and Farke have already shown they can spot an undervalued player. And it seems we have some young players who will make the grade.

If there is a problem it will be in buying proven British talent. I can see us wanting to make the Rhodes move permanent. But that would cost at least a Waghorn.

[Mello Yello 2,293]

One would have to be in the boardroom to know......

You mean you aren''t?.....You sound as if you should be......

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

[quote user="Fuzzar"]Why do people keep saying we''ll have to sell our best players every year?

Recent sales have been made to cover the foreseen drop in income to meet the shortfall from the final parachute payment. We may choose to sell any player going forward if the price is right (like any other club in any other league), but we won''t have to sell.[/quote]

We have to sell to buy, the owners aren’t interested in putting money in

[Indy 3,300]

Not really we had to sell to cover Naismith, Jarvis, Oliviera, Klose etc. Wages, but most of these will be gone come next summer, so the reality is we can start to build without pressure to sell.

Even a similar season to last year and 14th finish should see us with an average gate of over 22k or so, so should be in a relatively secure position for a couple seasons or so.

[Big Vince 318]

Norwich City will always be unsuccessful so long as the Suffolk Socialists are still around. They are experts at consistently making the wrong decisions, or no decision at all and there are no McNastys or Bowketts around to make better decisions on their behalf (in other words save the Suffolk Socialists from themselves).

Delia has never taken Norwich City very seriously. Her approach is to make slapstick humour out of it. Look at the things she has done:

1. Appointed the Blarneymeister

2. Appointed Bob the Grocer

3. Came on the pitch drunk on sherry trifle (04-05)

4. Appointed managers who are not managers (Gunn, etc)

5. Compels every manager to get knocked out of cups

6. Goes for structural change instead of boy Woy

7. Overlooked both Warnock & Bruce for manager''s job in 98

8. Flies gay pride flag from mast of City Stand

9. Paints walls pink in dressing room

10. Renewed Russell Martin''s contract for non-football reasons

11. Renewed contract of player with no knees

12. Signed Raymond de Waard

13. Signed Pape Diop

14. Tells every manager to let in a lot of goals because watching it is very funny

The list goes on...............

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Lists are great fun aren''t they.

I know people who have wanted someone out for 25 years. Think about that. 25 years the football club has made them unhappy. They wanted...

Chase out

Lockwood out

Cooper out

Hamilton out

Doncaster out

Worthy out

Delia out

Roeder out

Doncaster out again

Delia out again

Hughton out

Fry out

Adams out

McNally out

Neil out

McNally out again

Delia out again

Balls out

Delia out again...

I would say without a shadow of a doubt these people will want someone out until they finally shuffle off this mortal coil....

[Big Vince 318]

And, oh, how remiss of me:

15. Appoints directors with Class A drug habit

[JF 694]

I don’t think anyone wants to see balls out!