Let's get something straight.

[Mello Yello 2,293]

That unfortunately, is how the forum rolls.....

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="Creative Midfielder"][quote user=" Badger"]In many ways this would be the preferable solution - i.e. if those that demand perpetual success were to stop coming to games as their presence is unhelpful at best and probably damaging to the "matchday experience" and the confidence of young players.Obviously there would be a financial loss in the short run, the extent of which is hard to quantify because it is hard to know how representatives the noisy keyboard worriers are of the fan base as a whole. Most of the people I know are very disappointed with current performances but recognise it as one of the down periods that come with supporting a club the size of Norwich. It is the periods such as these that make the highs even more exhilarating. Our natural position has been the subject of interesting debate on this site before, but is probably somewhere in the range of 10th to 30th - where exactly is the subject of much debate. We are likely to be a yoyo club, with periods in both the top two divisions. In extreme circumstances - early 1990s, we might over-perform expectations and as more recently have extreme lows (League One). (see regression to the mean)Those that are not able to accept this reality are always only a poor season away from disappointment. Then they look for simple solutions - but simple solutions to complex issues usually only hold traction with the simple minded. The presence (rather than "support") of such people is deleterious to the club and in direct response, KC, if people decide that it isn''t worth the money, I would be happy with their absence.BTW before, I get accused of things that I haven''t said and do not mean, I know that many of the "moaners" on here are truly fanatical supporters and attend both home and away. Of course they have a right to moan. However, they have to offer something more convincing that the "Father Christmas solution" of a generous benefactor prepared to give us tens of millions wanting nothing in return if they wish to be taken seriously.[/quote]Agree with that 100%, you''ve articulated very clearly what I think about this and countless other posts. Of course there is a wide variety of opinions and fair enough when people advocate a coherent case but I''m really sick of reading the simplistic, throwaway lines about the owners, the manager, the board (now we have a DOF to add to the targets) and the sense of entitlement that often comes across with them.[/quote]

I''m wondering if that''s the unmasked real character or the forum mask. Either way it''s a bit sad....

[king canary 7,606]

@creative midfielder

I''m also yet to hear much in the way of a coherent case for why signing the club over to Nephew Tom is a good idea. I''d also love to here a well articulated case for why Farke should be given the two or three transfer windows some have been advocating.

[Highland Canary 76]

@hogesar - pleased to be of service. You have to take comfort where you can find it. There’s precious little at what was one known as FCR.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="hogesar"]Yeah but to be fair highland youve called it for like 6 years running now so whenever you say we''re completely screwed as a club I get this warm fuzzy feeling knowing we''ll likely be fine :)[/quote]

That''s nothing! There''s some on here with at least a dozen years under their belts...

[Creative Midfielder 1,996]

[quote user="king canary"]@creative midfielder

I''m also yet to hear much in the way of a coherent case for why signing the club over to Nephew Tom is a good idea. I''d also love to here a well articulated case for why Farke should be given the two or three transfer windows some have been advocating.[/quote]https://www.canaries.co.uk/News/2016/january/thomas-smith-im-proud-to-give-something-back/It may not have convinced you, or maybe you missed it, but see the above for a case which I would say is fairly standard for a public company appointing someone onto the board. If he gets the shares as well then I guess then the case is pretty much the standard one that we nearly all use when passing our assets onto our own family. Are you not planning to do the same, or are you a philantropist who is giving it all to the local Dog Rescue centre or whatever?

[Sussexyellow 55]

All good points Badger, and I suspect that the overall football hierarchy will by and large be maintained because the amounts of money going into clubs may well have a reasonable correlation to that hierarchy.

But what if there are anomalies in where that money goes. We could well retain our 10th to 30th positioning if we sit somewhere between 20th and 30th in the football rich list. That would quite likely produce a yo-yo club between the top two tiers. But what if the finance ranking was to fall significantly below that, could we then retain our historic football ranking? Obviously neither of us can answer that, we can only have a view.

You are absolutely right on there not being a simple solution, if there was I am sure it would be grabbed by now. A benefactor would be what we would be looking for, but as you say why would anybody throw the sort of money needed at NCFC with little hope of return. Except that money at the level required is going into other clubs albeit normal at the price of club ownership being demanded, which is a big barrier for us.

Having seen our financial position last week on the official website I am deeply concerned and as things stand I can see us becoming a yo-yo club but between the 2nd and 3rd tiers. I am not a glory hunte, I signed for being a supporter when we were a second tier club and had never been in the top flight. I was fine with that, and I would be fine with us maintaining the historic status that you set out in your first post. However I am deeply concerned that we are now going to fall short of that,

Time will tell because as you rightly say there is no easy solution.

[Badger 2,405]

Largely agree Sussex and I can understand and share your concern re external financing. I''m aware that I could be wrong and that external benefactors could continue to pump millions and tens of millions into clubs, and that we will be left behind financially. I am also aware of the alternative of some of these "benefactors" being nothing of the sort and that they will end up putting their clubs through a form of purgatory while they try to regain as much of their investment as possible. On the balance of probability, I think that the second scenario is more likely. I cannot see how the current "investment craze" is sustainable in the long term and think that clubs will be hurt and some may even cease to exist. For this reason, I would be very suspicious about the motives of someone who came along promising to spend of tens of millions to transform us. In any case, at the moment it''s academic because as far as I am aware, no such benefactor has offered us largesse - it is, currently at least, a figment of the imagination.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

It always sounds so tempting but how many of these "benefactors" carry on pumping in the cash if promotion doesn''t happen in the first two seasons? Obviously FFP also has a bearing on that. 

[Sussexyellow 55]

Badger, I too have questioned the long term sustainability of the current “investment” craze. I have also indulged in the reverie of NCFC benefitting from an Armageddon when it all collapses. But in reality it shows little sign of collapsing any time soon as the latest Sky multi year deal reflects.

In the meantime we must live with the here and now and that does not look great.

Good debate though and I suspect there is much more on which we agree than disagree.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

It seems we have to find another 30m next season to match this season''s income. So we find someone who will put in 30m next year. And presumably the next year. There''s no such thing as a free lunch so maybe our assets could be collateral. But then what happens in subsequent seasons if we are not promoted. 30m would hardly ensure promotion.

[lake district canary 4,531]

Great to see some interesting stuff on this subject (Hoola Han Solo take note).  What looks clear cut on the surface has more complexity to it than most of us imagine - there is no easy solution to the investment issue and there are deep rooted reasons why DS/MJW are totally committed to the cause, not least the emotional attachment to the club which they took under their wing over twenty years ago.  The only reason they would sell imo, is if the club got into dire straits financially and they could not bail it out themselves. That isn''t likely, as the club takes steps to live within it''s means and makes allowance for the reduced income this season and next. It is an issue which has caused some rancour amongst fans and even

though - as I said in the op - the steps they are planning are

absolutely correct in terms of what they own in the way of shares and

the time, effort and money they have put into the club to help it

through the hard times, but it would be good to have some clarification at some point about the nature of any handover to Tom Smith and any Trust that is likely to be set up. Presumably that would happen nearer the time and maybe they have no intention of handing over any time soon - and why should they, given their absolute commitment to the cause.

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

So it''s Lakey vs Nutty Nigel in the 2017 Forelock Final ''tug off.''

Lakey is a relative newcomer but has boyish passion on his side whereas the experienced Nigel has years of seeing off pretenders vying for his crown.

It is going to be close but my money is on Nigel to edge it in the ''Obsequious'' category and thus win on a narrow points decision.

May the best Yes-man win!

[nutty nigel 7,534]

Proud to be beside a good honest poster in the final.

1st round knock out was it Rudolph? Bless. You have to be able to get something straight before you can have a tug off.

On yer bike.

[4th floor 4]

The owners of the club should be from Norfolk. Once ownership leaves Norfolk it might never come back.

[king canary 7,606]

@creative midfielder

That doesn''t really address the question though - that link was about joining the board not about why him taking control of the club is in our best interests.

I''ve said to LDC earlier in this thread that of course Delia and MWJ can do as they wish with their shares. I''m just waiting for a decent explanation from anyone as to why this move is in the club''s best interests, not the Smiths.

[Tattoo 0]

The owners are from Suffolk!

I like Mello yello suggestion give the fans a red/ green card ans let them vote pre the next game

Red - nepotism and the stowmarket 2 to sell up

Green - for them to stay

Who could possibly object to that

[westcoastcanary 173]

[quote user="king canary"]@creative midfielder

That doesn''t really address the question though - that link was about joining the board not about why him taking control of the club is in our best interests.

I''ve said to LDC earlier in this thread that of course Delia and MWJ can do as they wish with their shares. I''m just waiting for a decent explanation from anyone as to why this move is in the club''s best interests, not the Smiths.[/quote]Given that DS & MWJ believe that their vision for the club is in the club''s best interests, they presumably believe also that ensuring it''s continuation when they step down is equally so. The debate about whether or not they are correct about the club''s best interests has been gone over ad nauseam to the point where it is, quite frankly boring, as is the repetitive wumming on here by the likes of lincoln, the incessant sniping at the board by the likes of Highland and Baldy, and the unceasing negativity of the likes of Dean Coney''s Boots, Making Plans, Mello Yellow and others. Posts on here have zero leverage on the fortunes of the club, but entirely determine the worthwhileness of contributing to this board. As far as I''m concerned, the worthwhileness is rapidly diminishing.

[Mello Yello 2,293]

How much leverage have you got?.......

[king canary 7,606]

Well I guess you can easily avoid the threads about the board if it''s not a discussion you''re interested in having. But the unfortunate reality of modern football is that the financial and ownership side of things have a major effect on everything.

[ZLF 274]

Absolutely money is key; but as we saw painfully last season its no guarantee.

Money alone simply isnt enough, nor is just the right strategy. Both need to be in play.

We have moved to having the right structure and whether it is Farke or another used to managing with a DoF (as increasing numbers of talented young coaches are) we are maximising our chances for the future. We will enhance that with a cash injection.

The current owners selling their shares alone does nothing to improve our financial position, only the owners, unless the new owners have another tranche of money to invest on top, that narrows the options further.

Shares are available, currently with unrealistic conditions which do need changing, to allow a new majority shareholder and a £100m cash injestion to the club to allow squad & facility improvements. For me that is the way ahead, allows all of the current shareholders to remain involved while losing current level of influence while the new owner will still be able to get their plans through as the majority holder.

tbh I have no axe to grind wth Tom et al, the key is how we generate improved cash flow into the club. The current owners is only one option. We should explore all of the possibilities.

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Can’t wait to get rid of them two. So out of touch with modern football (remember the Times interview), and take us fans for granted. Delia says she feels for the modern football club so must be oblivious to our extortionate ticket prices. Either that or she’s a hypocrite.

We need an ownership structure with real ambition and drive. Delia and MWJ have always been happy to see us bobbing along with the little old Norwich tag. McNally tried to turn us into a proactive outfit but was hamstrung with their over sentimentality towards failing managers and lack of ambition.

They’ve been here 20 years and we’re back to where we started - financially uncompetitive and with a poor quality squad. Sleepwalking towards League One with them two at the helm. Time for #deliaout

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

*feels for the modern football fan.

Time to get the old girl and her family out of our club.

[daly 501]

Perhaps we could start with half the income from the Puppet Mans Tax free earnings

[FenwayFrank 2,459]

Perhaps we should play the puppet man up front

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="westcoastcanary"][quote user="king canary"]@creative midfielder

That doesn''t really address the question though - that link was about joining the board not about why him taking control of the club is in our best interests.

I''ve said to LDC earlier in this thread that of course Delia and MWJ can do as they wish with their shares. I''m just waiting for a decent explanation from anyone as to why this move is in the club''s best interests, not the Smiths.[/quote]Given that DS & MWJ believe that their vision for the club is in the club''s best interests, they presumably believe also that ensuring it''s continuation when they step down is equally so. The debate about whether or not they are correct about the club''s best interests has been gone over ad nauseam to the point where it is, quite frankly boring, as is the repetitive wumming on here by the likes of lincoln, the incessant sniping at the board by the likes of Highland and Baldy, and the unceasing negativity of the likes of Dean Coney''s Boots, Making Plans, Mello Yellow and others. Posts on here have zero leverage on the fortunes of the club, but entirely determine the worthwhileness of contributing to this board. As far as I''m concerned, the worthwhileness is rapidly diminishing.[/quote]

Can sympathise with you westcoast, the negativity and sometimes vicious nature of all the anti threads is one of the reasons I started this one.  Even in the run up to the match on Friday there were new threads popping up, just continuing the same diatribe of negativity.  As can be seen, the anti-brigade don''t like being faced up to, they don''t like reality being spelled out to them. Yes, they are entitled to their opinions, but they are not any more right about the situation than I or anyone else who has a different opinion to them. There are arguments on both sides. My point at the start of the thread was that the owners are doing

nothing wrong with what they are planning to do with their investment,

not whether it was good or bad for us. But, for what it is worth,  I would say that imo, yes it is good for the club long term. The problems we have had over the years have been down to a lack of resources to even break even, over many many years. Trying to compete with richer clubs has been the way of it at Norwich since the year dot. That we have somewhat miraculously arrived at a state where all debts have been paid off (through success of being in the PL) is down to the board and majority shareholders getting enough right to have that success happen. The issues are clear to all of us, but the constant villifying of the board by just a few posters who seem to think they are the only ones who can say anything of any worth is not constuctive - they are just trying to rail road others into going along with what they say. There arguments on both sides.

 

[TIL 1010 4,746]

Do keep up Lakey as these anti threads as up put it have now been reclassified as hate threads.

[lake district canary 4,531]

[quote user="TIL 1010"]Do keep up Lakey as these anti threads as up put it have now been reclassified as hate threads.[/quote]Social media escalation in action I suppose......

[Hoola Han Solo 448]

Who has labelled them hate threads? Those of us wanting Delia out think she’s taken us as far as we can and need new impetus at board level. It’s got very stale

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Hoola Han Solo"]Who has labelled them hate threads? Those of us wanting Delia out think she’s taken us as far as we can and need new impetus at board level. It’s got very stale[/quote]Who would be number one a your list of suspects HHS ?