Poor Owners

[GPs Beard 0]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Duncan Edwards"]Fans groups may well feel that they''re being marginalised but I also think that this would be an ill-advised time to open dialogue with such groups.

It''s clear that things are balanced precariously and emotions are running high. While I don''t doubt for a second that Robin and Mox would retain professional decorum, Mox doesn''t know that and the clubs previous dealings with fan groups haven''t always been a bed of roses. I think it''d be daft of Mox to enter into these meetings as things stand, it could be heated, could turn into a bitchfest, could completely alienate the fans groups from more constructive positions when things take an upturn.

With regard to ticket prices; it''s £25. It''s cheaper than a league fixture - considerably cheaper than some - but there does seem to be a feeling that it''s too much. Well, when they get a poor crowd, they''ll realise. Pricing these games when you have no idea as to the strength of opposition or even your own team isn''t an exact science but I don''t think £25 is "out of the way" to watch a football match.

The Delia comments? I imagine she''s annoyed at how she was portrayed in the article. It seems to me that her trust was betrayed; maybe a reluctance to be misconstrued, misquoted or misinterpreted was the reason she didn''t utter a word at the AGM?[/quote]I doubt there was any misquoting or betrayal of trust. Winter is a highly experienced journalist who has a soft spot for Norwich City and admires Smith and Jones, saying they "represent what owners should be...conscientious individuals who see their club as a vehicle for local pride and passion, giving people a chance to dream, not as potential cash machines". Almost certainly Smith said what she was quoted as saying, but rowed back from that extreme position when fans took umbrage.

[/quote]

Exactly this. "Taken out of context" means yes that is what I said but ..... Henry Winter is old school and wouldn''t need to make this sort of thing up.

[Mr Apples 1,320]

Why are we Norwich?

Apples

[Alfie54 76]

We were probably a quality centre away from staying up last season. Spending that money that just about everybody could see was needed was all the risk that was needed. We would have then been in a position to recruit a better manager and have access to the premier league millions.

[Big Vince 318]

[quote user="Jim Smith"]Its about the same as those clubs Morty (Wednesday are arguably slightly bigger) but the point is more about taking advantage of your opportunities when they arise or at least feeling that you have done everything you can to do so.

I think there is a real malaise and lack of hunger amongst our fan base at the moment and its not just due to the current bad run of results. It was there at the start of the season even when results were going well. I suppose in part that may be a natural consequence of being a "yo-yo" club in recent years and the state of (or inequality in) football in general but I think that our last two relegations have been particularly spineless and have led quite a few to question what the point of it all is? What is the point of us going up to the premier league if when we get there we are just going to succumb meekly to relegation and not really have a go. Indeed, some have voted with their feet and I think have been replaced by a less passionate breed of spectator.

The site of our manager and team getting a standing ovation for relegation at the end of last season was for me very hard to take. I know some will see it as heart warming solidarity between fans and team but I think it is indicative of an attitude that flows from the top and which at times (not all times I agree) is counter productive.[/quote]

Exactly the reason why Big Vince is calling for Mr Chase on an emergency loan deal to root out all the lefties in the boardroom and to terminate all the clappy happers and numpties in the stands. We don''t need these kind of people associated with the club as they are counter-productive to success. Mr Chase knew how to engineer a successful club and it did not allow for taking any prisoners.

[Indy 3,300]

Self righteous, look at me I''m one of the bestest fans blog!

Not one of us thinks we deserve anything more than we have, the owners are ok, but it''s very stale at the moment with questions rightly being asked.

To keep throwing other clubs as a threat to new owners or foreign investments shows just how small minded the folks of Norfolk can be.

Let''s look at Man City, a club who have gone from strength to strength with the right investment, Chelsea and before we get those with yeh but we''re only Norwich, both Chelsea & Man City along with Southampton were languishing in the third year of English football before getting in new investment.

There''s no right or wrong fan opinion, some want investment some wat to keep the status quo, but that''s football, we can''t change what we have in our owners, we can see a definite move by the club in recent times to distance themselves from what used to be their fan base to a more customer oriented model, which Moxey is looking to bring back the other way.

My opinion is that every fan wants to experience a cup run with a win every so often, promotion to the premiership isn''t all it''s cracked up to be and a stint in this division might not be a bad thing to bring us back to a community club where we all start to pull together, become attached to our players again and unite as a fan base!

[morty 0]

Interesting. Calling another fan self righteous in one breath, then in the next hoping fans can unite...

😁

[Indy 3,300]

I know Morty but, but go back to pre premiership even up to the days of the old south stand, we used to get 16,000 average and it was a far more united front, even to the point of signing Hucks with the whip round, we were far more of a fan base than we are now!

I just don''t think thi type of blog does anything nor any blog going the other way pointing out all the negatives of the current board!

Maybe someone like you or Ricardo could actually do a balanced blog?

[morty 0]

No need, I agree with Duncan''s.

[Indy 3,300]

OK if you think bashing fans because they think different is conducive to a good blog then fine!

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

Glad you liked it Indy😂😉.

As for the comparisons with other clubs, well, the reason I chose QPR is because there was speculation regarding Fernandes here, who then with Briatore and Mittal ended up at Loftus Road.

The "folk" that want Delia out would have bent over backwards to accommodate them and right now, they''d be every bit as sick as they are now despite having owners with all the riches that they wished for.

It would have gone tits up.

Man City are a great example of how it CAN be done but there aren''t many Mansours around and perhaps you can remind me how Shinawatra ended up?

The people I''m talking about are desperate for this investment, convinced that it will enable us to consolidate in the top flight. It''s a pipe dream.

How many clubs are "established" in the top flight? How many start each season with zero chance of relegation?

On the flip side, how many clubs in the Championship think they belong in the Prem? 15? More?

How many of those have the investors that we (they) crave? Most. Fernandes, Mittal, Yeung, Evans, the loony at Leeds, the Numpty at Notts County or the pillock(s) at Portsmouth. They''d have bitten the hand off to secure one of these and we''d be every bit as cheesed off as we are now but accompanied by the knowledge that our club only existed on the basis that our super-duper rich owner didn''t decide to up sticks.

20 places in the Prem, 3 relegated every year. Villa under Lerner, Cardiff under Tan, Newcastle under Ashley, Boro under Gibson...etc etc.

They would sell the club, if the right person came along. If they decide that the right person doesn''t (and their judgment seems to have been bang on so far if we''re to believe Fernandes and Cullum were genuinely interested) then the most important thing to them is ensuring that the community have a club to support.

That IS important.

Once they''ve sold, that''s it. The leagues are littered with clubs that had shiny new owners, a few, like Chelsea and Man C, really shine brightly at one end but the stench of turd at the other is far more overpowering and, I''d suggest, statistically more likely to be the environment we''d end up in.

I understand the notion of having to be in it to win it but as with any lottery, there are far more losers than winners. I guess by whittling down the tickets our owners are trying their damnedest to shift those odds in our favour?

[Barclay seats 4849 the 3rd 0]

Morty

Whats out true potential Jim?

In preparing your answer try and gauge it against the true potential of similar size clubs such as Forest, Derby, Sheff Wed etc.

Or maybe Watford Hull Swansea Bournemouth West Brom Southampton ?

🙄

[Indy 3,300]

Now I get that part and I do agree, it''s always a gamble but the best way forward as Morty will buy into as he works in my industry is to strive for continuous improvement, risk assess each option and use the ALARP principle, which can be implemented into any business.

This part of the blog is fine but why the need to attack fellow fans as keyboard warriors etc.?

Also to balance things there''s always the chance that Fernandez or Cullum could have worked out, how do we know, as it''s all speculation on our behalf, god knows let''s look at the managers, Lambert suited our club, his set up here with his backroom staff worked, it hasn''t at other clubs, so it''s a fruitless comparison in my book, as we shouldn''t use any comparisons, more what we each feel would be right for the club as a fan or customer etc.

Sorry to go OTT, I get the point of the blog, just find it written in a very blinkered way, pro Delia and I''m sure someon here could write one bang opposite to your view.

[The Unsullied 0]

I am more successful in life than the vast majority on here and that is because I don''t and never have done settled for mediocrity

What chance of ever improving if you subscribe to the little ole norwich thing

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

I''m sure people could write the exact opposite.

If people really believe that she''s some kind of wicked queen that holds an iron-lady type grip over the boardroom and makes decisions based on astrology or the tea leaves then I''m unlikely to change their mind.

However, I think if you take a step back and pat down your ire for a second to look at it rationally, the notion that it''s her fault is, frankly, bonkers.

She''s a custodian, she''s one person who has stumped up her hard-earned and stuck it in, she feels a responsibility. It''s right that she should. Gambling today at the risk of there being no tomorrow would be irresponsible. She/they understand that, even if some of us don''t.

[Lessingham Canary 99]

Firstly its a good write Duncan, actually enjoyed reading it and did wonder where it was going for a minute. I don''t know if that many fans want Delia out, and I think the majority don''t, although I admit I was disappointed with her recent article about not selling, which has since been claimed to have been misrepresentative of the actual interview, not because I want her to sell, just want to know that when the opportunity may arise that it gets the right consideration.

Certainly those that sit near or around me are still supportive of her, and MWJ. But communication has declined in recent years and that along with the rise in social media only leads to speculation which 97.5% of the time is inaccurate.

One thing I think we can safely say is, The next 7 days are going to be huge for our club, there is a lot of talk on social media about arrogance coming out of Carrow Road, some accusing Alex Neil some the board, and then there are fans calling fans arrogant. Lets hope we see a resurgence from our team where it matters, on the pitch and somehow we can turn our season round, but personally I''m not convinced our manager will, which is sad, but just my opinion.

[Indy 3,300]

[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]I''m sure people could write the exact opposite.

If people really believe that she''s some kind of wicked queen that holds an iron-lady type grip over the boardroom and makes decisions based on astrology or the tea leaves then I''m unlikely to change their mind.

However, I think if you take a step back and pat down your ire for a second to look at it rationally, the notion that it''s her fault is, frankly, bonkers.

She''s a custodian, she''s one person who has stumped up her hard-earned and stuck it in, she feels a responsibility. It''s right that she should. Gambling today at the risk of there being no tomorrow would be irresponsible. She/they understand that, even if some of us don''t.[/quote]

Sorry but to think without our darling queen there would be no Norwich is bonkers!

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

In my opinion we have this season or next to get promoted, after that the financial gap will be huge, the way things are going at the moment the best we can hope for this season is a shot at the play off lottery. If we do not go up this season we will be competing with three teams with bigger parachute payments than us next season. I have no issue with us being a yo yo team, but in my opinion our owners will not even be wealthy enough to deliver that in the coming seasons. The Board have publicly stated that promotion to the Premiership is their number one aim, it is therefore reasonable to judge them on that target........

[morty 0]

I don''t think you can really compare the oil and gas industry to the football one Indy[:D]

[Indy 3,300]

Not directly but you can certainly use the right tools to give yourself the best chance with limited resources.

Still we can''t change diddly squat so it''s only opinion. They have stated their long term plans like it or not, your choice is to pay and watch or not!

[Dr Greenthumb 749]

what a load of rubbish, it''s 2016, money talks. Watch this club languish in the lower leagues for years to come now under this owner and board

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Indy"]Self righteous, look at me I''m one of the bestest fans blog!

Not one of us thinks we deserve anything more than we have, the owners are ok, but it''s very stale at the moment with questions rightly being asked.

To keep throwing other clubs as a threat to new owners or foreign investments shows just how small minded the folks of Norfolk can be.

Let''s look at Man City, a club who have gone from strength to strength with the right investment, Chelsea and before we get those with yeh but we''re only Norwich, both Chelsea & Man City along with Southampton were languishing in the third year of English football before getting in new investment.

There''s no right or wrong fan opinion, some want investment some wat to keep the status quo, but that''s football, we can''t change what we have in our owners, we can see a definite move by the club in recent times to distance themselves from what used to be their fan base to a more customer oriented model, which Moxey is looking to bring back the other way.

My opinion is that every fan wants to experience a cup run with a win every so often, promotion to the premiership isn''t all it''s cracked up to be and a stint in this division might not be a bad thing to bring us back to a community club where we all start to pull together, become attached to our players again and unite as a fan base![/quote]Man City have only ever had one season in the third tier, in 1998-98, and that was comfortably before Abramovich started the craze for big investors, particularly from overseas, to buy clubs, while Chelsea have never been in the third tier, and since 1959-60 Southampton have just had that one season when they got into a financial mess. None of those clubs was languishing down there. One season does not count as languishing.In any event, even if those "facts" had been right it still would be absurd to compare Norwich City with Man City and Chelsea, both much bigger clubs, historically and at present, and stretching quite a point to compare us with Southampton.

[Indy 3,300]

Two points Purple, one both Chelsea & Man City have been as we were in the late 70''s through the 80''s. Bothlaft us behind in recent years, my point.

Secondly I said it''s absolutely pointless comparing ourselves with any other club, we''re all different and what ifs are just supposition, no one can say what would have happened, so ultimately pointless.

What is for certain is the here and now, and that is were are mid table second division, losing games and gaining debt with the aging players we have.

Our board doesn''t have the funds to pay this money next year so this is our one chance to get back, after this season we will be behind those clubs mentioned in this league in financial muscle.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="Jim the Canary"]I am more successful in life than the vast majority on here and that is because I don''t and never have done settled for mediocrity

What chance of ever improving if you subscribe to the little ole norwich thing[/quote]As with everything in life that''s purely a matter of opinion nothing else.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,359]

I take issue with one element:

"They''ve said they won''t even listen to offers....uh huh. It was a story in a paper. It was edited. To create maximum interest. As much was clarified at the AGM - but then, they would say that, wouldn''t they?"

Why suddenly change from the tune they''ve been singing for the last decade, that if a better offer came along for the good of the club they''d step aside? What changed so much that they now even refuse to contemplate selling, that the pretence of doing what''s "best for the club" fell away so sharply and abruptly?

[Rudolph Hucker 0]

I wonder if young Tom has been given power of attorney?

[ZLF 274]

As far as tom goes if he inherits the shares surly its better to get him experienced in what a club entails sooner rather than later; rather than being thrust in at the deep end inexperienced and un-supported. Its sensible planning.

We have what many clubs want - owners who are fans and who value the club as part of the community; not subservient to it but part of it. Some appear upset because the fan in charge is not them. hey ho.

We have the most expensively constructed team ever, and in this league are pairing seriously over the odds for the squad we have. Its not that the playing side has not had investment; we have had plenty

If the playing squad performed to their wages to gain automatic promotion. For me that is the issue; we escape this based upon the performance of the manager coaches and most crucially the players. Like many clubs before us, and plenty to come, we are proof present that simply spending money does not guarantee footballing success.

Our current model is based upon prem league income; what I do trust these owners to do is adjust accordingly to not financially risk the club yet endeavour to provide a squad to make us competitive again.

For me, our issues in descending order of responsibility are the experienced players, the coaching staff and then the owners; for that reason i wholeheartedly commend duncans view

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

[quote user="Canary Wundaboy"]I take issue with one element:

"They''ve said they won''t even listen to offers....uh huh. It was a story in a paper. It was edited. To create maximum interest. As much was clarified at the AGM - but then, they would say that, wouldn''t they?"

Why suddenly change from the tune they''ve been singing for the last decade, that if a better offer came along for the good of the club they''d step aside? What changed so much that they now even refuse to contemplate selling, that the pretence of doing what''s "best for the club" fell away so sharply and abruptly?[/quote]

They haven''t. If they felt that the foundations of a takeover were in line with the values and best interests of the club and all of its supporters, they''d sell.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Indy"]Two points Purple, one both Chelsea & Man City have been as we were in the late 70''s through the 80''s. Bothlaft us behind in recent years, my point.

Secondly I said it''s absolutely pointless comparing ourselves with any other club, we''re all different and what ifs are just supposition, no one can say what would have happened, so ultimately pointless.

What is for certain is the here and now, and that is were are mid table second division, losing games and gaining debt with the aging players we have.

Our board doesn''t have the funds to pay this money next year so this is our one chance to get back, after this season we will be behind those clubs mentioned in this league in financial muscle.[/quote]But that is exactly what you were doing  - comparing us with other clubs (and in a negative way) - and are still doing.

[Faded Jaded Semi Plastic SOB 1,024]

That was also my point Purple, both sides of the argument can make comparisons to other clubs to back up their opinion. I personally do not want to make comparisons, I do not want us to be [insert name of club]. The issue for me is how finances in football have changed drastically with huge injection of cash into the top tier. I have not seen an argument/opinion yet that changes my mind that to be even a "yo yo" club (let alone an established Premiership club) we either need a cash injection or for the club to change its policy of being debt free and running with a manageable level of debt. Neither of those things look likely so for me it signals a lengthy stay in the Championship......

[Duncan Edwards 2,236]

But surely the point is that we''ve just had 4 years out of 5 in the Premier League, achieving that yo-yo (if you like) status without the cash injection, while being debt free. In the meantime, there are an abundance of clubs who''ve had their cash injection, are running with debt both manageable and like Ipswich that have come nowhere near what we have achieved in the same period.

Now, of course, people will point at Southampton, Stoke, Bournemouth, Watford, Hull etc, because we''re currently in the Championship. Next season, three will come down and three will get promoted. Then the fingers of envy will point at the clubs that have gone up.

We should be doing better than we are, that''s clear, but the notion that throwing money at it is the answer or that it will be some kind of magic wand is crazy. There are ONLY 20 Prem places and we want to be one of them, but there are probably 35 or 40 clubs who think that way. Even if we all had a benevolent Billionaire, there''s still going to be twenty clubs not on the gravy train at any one time. As I asked before, genuinely, how many clubs start a Prem season with zero chance of relegation?