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Duncan Edwards

Poor Owners

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Two points Purple, one both Chelsea & Man City have been as we were in the late 70''s through the 80''s. Bothlaft us behind in recent years, my point.

Secondly I said it''s absolutely pointless comparing ourselves with any other club, we''re all different and what ifs are just supposition, no one can say what would have happened, so ultimately pointless.

What is for certain is the here and now, and that is were are mid table second division, losing games and gaining debt with the aging players we have.

Ou
r board doesn''t have the funds to pay this money next year so this is our one chance to get back, after this season we will be behind those clubs mentioned in this league in financial muscle.[/quote]But that is exactly what you were doing  - comparing us with other clubs (and in a negative way) - and are still doing.[/quote]

No Purple I''m making the point to the blog that there''s always a counter argument, but like others I wish pro boarders would stop using clubs to make a point as there are those who are and will become stronger due to money.

It''s ok for Nutty to point out about the likes of Wolves, Forrest etc having wealthier owners but not performing to our level, that''s true, but the next five seasons without promotion will see us not competing with these guys financially and quality players, we will be more reliant on lower standard players.

There''s no comparison to be made, you are either happy to plod with Tom or you want a new owner to inject a new idea and maybe cash into the club, after 20 years I''d be in the latter camp.

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[quote user="Indy"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Two points Purple, one both Chelsea & Man City have been as we were in the late 70''s through the 80''s. Bothlaft us behind in recent years, my point.

Secondly I said it''s absolutely pointless comparing ourselves with any other club, we''re all different and what ifs are just supposition, no one can say what would have happened, so ultimately pointless.

What is for certain is the here and now, and that is were are mid table second division, losing games and gaining debt with the aging players we have.

Ou
r board doesn''t have the funds to pay this money next year so this is our one chance to get back, after this season we will be behind those clubs mentioned in this league in financial muscle.[/quote]But that is exactly what you were doing  - comparing us with other clubs (and in a negative way) - and are still doing.[/quote]

No Purple I''m making the point to the blog that there''s always a counter argument, but like others I wish pro boarders would stop using clubs to make a point as there are those who are and will become stronger due to money.

It''s ok for Nutty to point out about the likes of Wolves, Forrest etc having wealthier owners but not performing to our level, that''s true, but the next five seasons without promotion will see us not competing with these guys financially and quality players, we will be more reliant on lower standard players.

There''s no comparison to be made, you are either happy to plod with Tom or you want a new owner to inject a new idea and maybe cash into the club, after 20 years I''d be in the latter camp.[/quote]Would you saying you''re perhaps, being a bit cup half empty here?

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[quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Self righteous, look at me I''m one of the bestest fans blog!

Not one of us thinks we deserve anything more than we have, the owners are ok, but it''s very stale at the moment with questions rightly being asked.

To keep throwing other clubs as a threat to new owners or foreign investments shows just how small minded the folks of Norfolk can be.

Let''s look at Man City, a club who have gone from strength to strength with the right investment, Chelsea and before we get those with yeh but we''re only Norwich, both Chelsea & Man City along with Southampton were languishing in the third year of English football before getting in new investment.

There''s no right or wrong fan opinion, some want investment some wat to keep the status quo, but that''s football, we can''t change what we have in our owners, we can see a definite move by the club in recent times to distance themselves from what used to be their fan base to a more customer oriented model, which Moxey is looking to bring back the other way.

My opinion is that every fan wants to experience a cup run with a win every so often, promotion to the premiership isn''t all it''s cracked up to be and a stint in this division might not be a bad thing to bring us back to a community club where we all start to pull together, become attached to our players again and unite as a fan base![/quote]Man City have only ever had one season in the third tier, in 1998-98, and that was comfortably before Abramovich started the craze for big investors, particularly from overseas, to buy clubs, while Chelsea have never been in the third tier, and since 1959-60 Southampton have just had that one season when they got into a financial mess. None of those clubs was languishing down there. One season does not count as languishing.In any event, even if those "facts" had been right it still would be absurd to compare Norwich City with Man City and Chelsea, both much bigger clubs, historically and at present, and stretching quite a point to compare us with Southampton.[/quote]

I would Southampton is a very apt comparable to be honest Purple. They may be streets ahead of us now in terms of wealth and/or infrastructure but that really just serves to illustrate how having a "poor owner" has seen us slip behind because in terms of the fundamental size and status of the two clubs they are very similar. Chelsea are not really a "big" club either despite their current incarnation.

In any event though surely the point of the comparison was that foreign ownership is not by definition the evil that it is held out to be in some quarters rather than saying we could be competing for the premier league title with Man City.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Self righteous, look at me I''m one of the bestest fans blog!

Not one of us thinks we deserve anything more than we have, the owners are ok, but it''s very stale at the moment with questions rightly being asked.

To keep throwing other clubs as a threat to new owners or foreign investments shows just how small minded the folks of Norfolk can be.

Let''s look at Man City, a club who have gone from strength to strength with the right investment, Chelsea and before we get those with yeh but we''re only Norwich, both Chelsea & Man City along with Southampton were languishing in the third year of English football before getting in new investment.

There''s no right or wrong fan opinion, some want investment some wat to keep the status quo, but that''s football, we can''t change what we have in our owners, we can see a definite move by the club in recent times to distance themselves from what used to be their fan base to a more customer oriented model, which Moxey is looking to bring back the other way.

My opinion is that every fan wants to experience a cup run with a win every so often, promotion to the premiership isn''t all it''s cracked up to be and a stint in this division might not be a bad thing to bring us back to a community club where we all start to pull together, become attached to our players again and unite as a fan base![/quote]Man City have only ever had one season in the third tier, in 1998-98, and that was comfortably before Abramovich started the craze for big investors, particularly from overseas, to buy clubs, while Chelsea have never been in the third tier, and since 1959-60 Southampton have just had that one season when they got into a financial mess. None of those clubs was languishing down there. One season does not count as languishing.In any event, even if those "facts" had been right it still would be absurd to compare Norwich City with Man City and Chelsea, both much bigger clubs, historically and at present, and stretching quite a point to compare us with Southampton.[/quote]

I would Southampton is a very apt comparable to be honest Purple. They may be streets ahead of us now in terms of wealth and/or infrastructure but that really just serves to illustrate how having a "poor owner" has seen us slip behind because in terms of the fundamental size and status of the two clubs they are very similar. Chelsea are not really a "big" club either despite their current incarnation.

In any event though surely the point of the comparison was that foreign ownership is not by definition the evil that it is held out to be in some quarters rather than saying we could be competing for the premier league title with Man City.[/quote]Its not about foreign ownership being "evil" for goodness sake Jim, its about the ownership genuinely being interested in the future of Norwich City, and not just investing to make a fast buck. What do you think the chances are of finding a Chinese billionaire, who is a rabid Norwich City fan?

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There are some who would prefer pauper owners to finally put pay to expectations and lose hambitios supporters that have the ordacity to offer criticism.

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I would also add though that I don''t think that the relative success Southampton are enjoying currently is solely down to the wealth of their owner, they also seem to have a far, far superior behind the scenes infrastructure and philosophy at that club which has given them a stability and continuity (despite the loss of managers and key players) that we seem to lack.

I do also accept the point above about that this season our struggles are not down to the owners/board not making available enough money. Whether that was a factor in our poor recruitment last season I don''t know but this season the manager has enough resources at his disposal to have us challenging for the top two and playing a lot better than we currently are.

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[quote user="morty"][quote user="Jim Smith"][quote user="PurpleCanary"][quote user="Indy"]Self righteous, look at me I''m one of the bestest fans blog!

Not one of us thinks we deserve anything more than we have, the owners are ok, but it''s very stale at the moment with questions rightly being asked.

To keep throwing other clubs as a threat to new owners or foreign investments shows just how small minded the folks of Norfolk can be.

Let''s look at Man City, a club who have gone from strength to strength with the right investment, Chelsea and before we get those with yeh but we''re only Norwich, both Chelsea & Man City along with Southampton were languishing in the third year of English football before getting in new investment.

There''s no right or wrong fan opinion, some want investment some wat to keep the status quo, but that''s football, we can''t change what we have in our owners, we can see a definite move by the club in recent times to distance themselves from what used to be their fan base to a more customer oriented model, which Moxey is looking to bring back the other way.

My opinion is that every fan wants to experience a cup run with a win every so often, promotion to the premiership isn''t all it''s cracked up to be and a stint in this division might not be a bad thing to bring us back to a community club where we all start to pull together, become attached to our players again and unite as a fan base![/quote]Man City have only ever had one season in the third tier, in 1998-98, and that was comfortably before Abramovich started the craze for big investors, particularly from overseas, to buy clubs, while Chelsea have never been in the third tier, and since 1959-60 Southampton have just had that one season when they got into a financial mess. None of those clubs was languishing down there. One season does not count as languishing.In any event, even if those "facts" had been right it still would be absurd to compare Norwich City with Man City and Chelsea, both much bigger clubs, historically and at present, and stretching quite a point to compare us with Southampton.[/quote]

I would Southampton is a very apt comparable to be honest Purple. They may be streets ahead of us now in terms of wealth and/or infrastructure but that really just serves to illustrate how having a "poor owner" has seen us slip behind because in terms of the fundamental size and status of the two clubs they are very similar. Chelsea are not really a "big" club either despite their current incarnation.

In any event though surely the point of the comparison was that foreign ownership is not by definition the evil that it is held out to be in some quarters rather than saying we could be competing for the premier league title with Man City.[/quote]Its not about foreign ownership being "evil" for goodness sake Jim, its about the ownership genuinely being interested in the future of Norwich City, and not just investing to make a fast buck. What do you think the chances are of finding a Chinese billionaire, who is a rabid Norwich City fan?[/quote]

Depends how David Lee''s career goes over the next few years I guess!

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Brilliant Jimbo! What happened between the end of August and now for you to have such a massive change of mind?

Indy. I''m not all precious about people quoting me where I haven''t posted but would appreciate it if you would make the point i was making rather than take my previous posts out of context.

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I haven''t had a massive change of mind Nutty. I do feel that the board/club failed to recruit enough in certain areas this summer but that is not the same as saying they did not make money available. I have, however, always been consistent in stating that I believe our squad to be good enough to be challenging for the top two notwithstanding that failure. That''s why I think a new manager, early enough, will make a huge difference to our season, Unfortunately that prospect seems to be receding with every wasted match/week.

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No Jimbo. What you said was that Alex Neil had been let down by the board so promotion was gone. Now you seem to be saying The board was let down by Alex Neil and unless he is replaced promotion is gone.

This would be a good time to reflect that boards/managers are stuck in the real world where it''s difficult to make such sweeping u turns.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]I would Southampton is a very apt comparable to be honest Purple. They may be streets ahead of us now in terms of wealth and/or infrastructure but that really just serves to illustrate how having a "poor owner" has seen us slip behind because in terms of the fundamental size and status of the two clubs they are very similar. Chelsea are not really a "big" club either despite their current incarnation.

In any event though surely the point of the comparison was that foreign ownership is not by definition the evil that it is held out to be in some quarters rather than saying we could be competing for the premier league title with Man City.[/quote]

Jim, I still think it is stretching a point. Southampton are at least a slightly bigger club. We came up together from the Third Division. Since then we have had one season in the third tier, 30 in the second and 25 in the top. Southampton have had two seasons in the third, 15 in the second and 39 in the top.They are also a club that got very lucky with investment. They could easily have been an example of a club that made a bad choice. They were on the verge of being taken over by a group called Pinnacle,who had convinced Matt le Tissier they were the real deal, and had him fronting the bid, with the idea of him becoming chairman.Not surprisingly Southampton fans assumed this meant the company was a good ''un. Our equivalent would be Darren Huckerby backing a takeover. As it turned out Pinnacle pulled out at the last moment. They had talked a very good game, but the reality was different. Plainly theirs was not the real deal. It appeared that there was less money backing the bid than was necessary.But out of the blue appeared Liebherr (who supposedly knew about Southampton because his company made cranes for the docks!) and the debt was paid off and millions poured in since, even though Liebherr''s heir cares nothing about football.Myself, I would have no problem with a foreign owner per se, but they would have to respect the history and the ethos of the club, as well as having pots of money.

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]No Jimbo. What you said was that Alex Neil had been let down by the board so promotion was gone. Now you seem to be saying The board was let down by Alex Neil and unless he is replaced promotion is gone.

This would be a good time to reflect that boards/managers are stuck in the real world where it''s difficult to make such sweeping u turns.[/quote]

I stand to be corrected if you can dig out the quote Nutty but I have no recollection of saying that. What I do recall saying is that I do not think that we had done all we could though our transfer business to give us the best possible chance of promotion but I still felt we had enough to be up there challenging. I have always felt we have had a decent squad (albeit unnecessarily light in a coupe of key areas due to lack of balance) at this level hence I have no sympathy for the manager who I think is doing a terrible job.

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If it was really all to do about owners worth then we would be in L2.

If was about investment (past and present) we are Championship.

It is about a team. The board, management, coaches and players. The bull about punching above weight is purely based on owners worth and history.

We had the team to get us out of the Championship a season and half ago but not the right team to keep us in the Prem.

That isn''t a big deal if we have the team to get us back in the Prem.

It doesn''t look as though we have.

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