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Duncan Edwards

Poor Owners

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My piece from AlongComeNorwich.

http://www.alongcomenorwich.com/article-archive/time-for-delia-to-goo-hintut

If someone could make it clicky that would be appreciated/

😀👍🏻

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Like normal elderly people their mental capacity and reasoning has diminished over time

This can be evidenced by the ridiculous decision not to sack Neil

It is with some regret that today I am calling for the immediate and unconditional resignation of the entire board of directors of Ncfc

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I don''t think anyone blames Delia "not being rich enough" but I do think a lot of fans believe that their attitude is holding us back from fulfilling our true potential. Of course you are right that doing so does not always work out and we could find ourselves in QPR''s shoes but QPR beat us a couple of weeks ago and at the moment its looking quite likely that we and they will be spending a prolonged period in the same division so where has the fact we may have been better managed in the interim really got us?

The reason that I feel our owners are holding us back (and indeed at present arguably risking our future) is that I believe we have failed, through a lack of ruthlessness and ambition and possibly because they have not been receptive to interest in our club from others who may have been "rich enough" to make a difference. At the moment I think the board''s stance with the manager and outside investment is more of a risk to the future of the club than anything else because the simple truth is that our current business model is no longer really sustainable even at championship level and if we don''t manage to get ourselves promoted then there is a major risk that a young man, with no apparent personal wealth to fall back on, is going to inherit a struggling championship football club and possibly one that is heavily back in debt. We''ve had a fantastic opportunity to try and remove ourselves from that cycle and there is a very real danger we are going to get sucked back into it because I do not think the hunger has genuinely been there to do what it takes to establish ourselves at the next level.

Have they been poor owners overall? No. Are they evil? No. Do I currently have faith in them to steer us through the next few years? Not really.

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Whats out true potential Jim?In preparing your answer try and gauge it against the true potential of similar size clubs such as Forest, Derby, Sheff Wed etc.

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[quote user="Jim the Canary"]Like normal elderly people their mental capacity and reasoning has diminished over time

This can be evidenced by the ridiculous decision not to sack Neil

It is with some regret that today I am calling for the immediate and unconditional resignation of the entire board of directors of Ncfc[/quote]

I am sure they will give your request the due consideration it deserves 😝

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Its about the same as those clubs Morty (Wednesday are arguably slightly bigger) but the point is more about taking advantage of your opportunities when they arise or at least feeling that you have done everything you can to do so.

I think there is a real malaise and lack of hunger amongst our fan base at the moment and its not just due to the current bad run of results. It was there at the start of the season even when results were going well. I suppose in part that may be a natural consequence of being a "yo-yo" club in recent years and the state of (or inequality in) football in general but I think that our last two relegations have been particularly spineless and have led quite a few to question what the point of it all is? What is the point of us going up to the premier league if when we get there we are just going to succumb meekly to relegation and not really have a go. Indeed, some have voted with their feet and I think have been replaced by a less passionate breed of spectator.

The site of our manager and team getting a standing ovation for relegation at the end of last season was for me very hard to take. I know some will see it as heart warming solidarity between fans and team but I think it is indicative of an attitude that flows from the top and which at times (not all times I agree) is counter productive.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]Its about the same as those clubs Morty (Wednesday are arguably slightly bigger) but the point is more about taking advantage of your opportunities when they arise or at least feeling that you have done everything you can to do so.

I think there is a real malaise and lack of hunger amongst our fan base at the moment and its not just due to the current bad run of results. It was there at the start of the season even when results were going well. I suppose in part that may be a natural consequence of being a "yo-yo" club in recent years and the state of (or inequality in) football in general but I think that our last two relegations have been particularly spineless and have led quite a few to question what the point of it all is? What is the point of us going up to the premier league if when we get there we are just going to succumb meekly to relegation and not really have a go. Indeed, some have voted with their feet and I think have been replaced by a less passionate breed of spectator.

The site of our manager and team getting a standing ovation for relegation at the end of last season was for me very hard to take. I know some will see it as heart warming solidarity between fans and team but I think it is indicative of an attitude that flows from the top and which at times (not all times I agree) is counter productive.[/quote]But those clubs, who have richer owners than us, aren''t established in the Premiership either, are they?Whilst I am obviously none too happy with results at the moment, I suggest rather than malaise amongst a lot of our fanbase, there is a fair bit of self entitlement.

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No they are not but they have not had 4 of the last 5 seasons in the top flight and the accompanying TV money that brings. We have had an opportunity that they have not had in recent years and still have a big financial advantage over them and yet we find ourselves below two of the three.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]No they are not but they have not had 4 of the last 5 seasons in the top flight and the accompanying TV money that brings. We have had an opportunity that they have not had in recent years and still have a big financial advantage over them and yet we find ourselves below two of the three.[/quote]So what you''re saying is that we are out performing clubs of similar size, despite having poorer owners?

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We were outperforming them (albeit with the helping hand of the sky money), we are no longer out-performing them and the way things are going we may be unable to compete with them (or at least some of them) in the not too distant future. We are back to the whole foresight debate Morty. Seeing when things are starting to go wrong (or indeed when is the right tome to build on the good times to try and make them even better) and acting on it in time or at the right time to make a difference.

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If it was as simple as that Jimbo the teams who had the advantage of being in the PL at it''s inception would never have been releated.

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[quote user="Jim Smith"]We were outperforming them (albeit with the helping hand of the sky money), we are no longer out-performing them and the way things are going we may be unable to compete with them (or at least some of them) in the not too distant future. We are back to the whole foresight debate Morty. Seeing when things are starting to go wrong (or indeed when is the right tome to build on the good times to try and make them even better) and acting on it in time or at the right time to make a difference.[/quote]So what are you using to gauge whether we are still out performing them or not?No its not a foresight debate, its a hindsight one.We may sort our $hit out, and go up through the playoffs again.The thing about a pessimist Jim is that he''ll usually be proved right, sooner or later.

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Delia and Michael are good people who love the club and I''m thankful for what they''ve done for the club, however I''m not sure they know much about football and I suspect they''re out of touch with the modern game.

Just look at the recent newspaper and AGM comments. Delia admitted she has no interests in the finances and doesn''t even understand a balance sheet! Whilst we have other executives dealing with this, you''d think she might have a bit of interest. And MWJ has been very close to xenophobia with some of his comments on foreign owners. And as for Delia''s comments about protecting the fans but then looking at our pricing! Naive maybe but not a comment from someone with their finger on the pulse.

What''s clear is that McNally was a very ruthless businessman that saved this club from the brink and that the owners need a strong leader to point the club in the right direction. Unfortunately the early signs of Moxey are not encouraging. On Twitter Robin Sainty has been commenting on how fan groups are being marginalised, and then we have the ridiculous prices for the Cup game. The board have to be careful that the gap between fans and managers doesn''t widen even further.

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Fans groups may well feel that they''re being marginalised but I also think that this would be an ill-advised time to open dialogue with such groups.

It''s clear that things are balanced precariously and emotions are running high. While I don''t doubt for a second that Robin and Mox would retain professional decorum, Mox doesn''t know that and the clubs previous dealings with fan groups haven''t always been a bed of roses. I think it''d be daft of Mox to enter into these meetings as things stand, it could be heated, could turn into a bitchfest, could completely alienate the fans groups from more constructive positions when things take an upturn.

With regard to ticket prices; it''s £25. It''s cheaper than a league fixture - considerably cheaper than some - but there does seem to be a feeling that it''s too much. Well, when they get a poor crowd, they''ll realise. Pricing these games when you have no idea as to the strength of opposition or even your own team isn''t an exact science but I don''t think £25 is "out of the way" to watch a football match.

The Delia comments? I imagine she''s annoyed at how she was portrayed in the article. It seems to me that her trust was betrayed; maybe a reluctance to be misconstrued, misquoted or misinterpreted was the reason she didn''t utter a word at the AGM?

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The reality is that we have been overperforming since 2009, given our resources as a club. The four out of five years we were in the premier league has disguised that and led people to believe we should be an established premier league club.  Now we all want that, of course - we can all dream - but that stark reality of being under resourced compared to many others should tell everyone that we are not and probably never will be established in the PL.   We can dream - we can aim high - the club can make positive noises - but we are what we are and the thing we should recognise is that a poor club that is overperforming is much better than a rich club underperforming.  We are currently just under the desired standard we want to be at - but not so far under that anything drastic needs to be done at board level.  Stability is the key and that stability has led us to a good place financially as a club - and even if we don''t get promoted this season or next and we lose some of the high wages off our books, we still be able to compete in this league and still get into the PL sometimes. I don''t ever want to see a rich benefactor - unless he/she is a long term NCFC fan - and if that means we stay as a championship club sometimes - so be it. As long as finances are kept under control and don''t get into a parlous state as they were in the 2000''s, we will always be able to compete as what we are and have been over the last few seasons - a club that overperforms regularly compared to its resources and those of other clubs.

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A cook, a labour politician at the helm...no chance of any serious investment in the squad me thinks...nor is there much ambition at the club.

The little ''ol Naarwich way of doing things is annoying many supporters as I think we would have been a stable PL club by now with some more ambition in the board room and the will to take some chances!

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[quote user="Duncan Edwards"]Fans groups may well feel that they''re being marginalised but I also think that this would be an ill-advised time to open dialogue with such groups.

It''s clear that things are balanced precariously and emotions are running high. While I don''t doubt for a second that Robin and Mox would retain professional decorum, Mox doesn''t know that and the clubs previous dealings with fan groups haven''t always been a bed of roses. I think it''d be daft of Mox to enter into these meetings as things stand, it could be heated, could turn into a bitchfest, could completely alienate the fans groups from more constructive positions when things take an upturn.

With regard to ticket prices; it''s £25. It''s cheaper than a league fixture - considerably cheaper than some - but there does seem to be a feeling that it''s too much. Well, when they get a poor crowd, they''ll realise. Pricing these games when you have no idea as to the strength of opposition or even your own team isn''t an exact science but I don''t think £25 is "out of the way" to watch a football match.

The Delia comments? I imagine she''s annoyed at how she was portrayed in the article. It seems to me that her trust was betrayed; maybe a reluctance to be misconstrued, misquoted or misinterpreted was the reason she didn''t utter a word at the AGM?
[/quote]I doubt there was any misquoting or betrayal of trust. Winter is a highly experienced journalist who has a soft spot for Norwich City and admires Smith and Jones, saying they "represent what owners should be...conscientious individuals who see their club as a vehicle for local pride and passion, giving people a chance to dream, not as potential cash machines". Almost certainly Smith said what she was quoted as saying, but rowed back from that extreme position when fans took umbrage.

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Well said L.d.c. We are about in our rightful place in the football hierarchy - I suppose anywhere between 16 th and 30 is our historical span. Sometimes we overachieve and operate at the top end and other times we underachieve and sink lower.

We have one of the poorest owners on the top two divisions and a ground capacity that limits our progression.

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[quote user="ROBFLECK"]A cook, a labour politician at the helm...no chance of any serious investment in the squad me thinks...nor is there much ambition at the club.

The little ''ol Naarwich way of doing things is annoying many supporters as I think we would have been a stable PL club by now with some more ambition in the board room and the will to take some chances![/quote]You may well have, unwittingly, completely epitomised what Duncan is talking about in his article.[:D]

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I might have Morty...but I''ve been honest... I sincerely think we might have done a "Stoke" ... and become a stable PL team , should we have had the "b*lls" for it .

But then again, the opposite might have been true too...

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The problem with these sorts of articles is that its anyone''s fault but the owners. The other obvious point is why does Delia Smith sit on the board in the first place?When I go to work I don''t bring my wife along and have her sitting next to me. It would be hell having her constantly chiming in on matters she knows little or nothing about.Delia doesn''t seem to know anything football. Cooking yes, football no.

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[quote user="Len"]The problem with these sorts of articles is that its anyone''s fault but the owners. The other obvious point is why does Delia Smith sit on the board in the first place?When I go to work I don''t bring my wife along and have her sitting next to me. It would be hell having her constantly chiming in on matters she knows little or nothing about.Delia doesn''t seem to know anything football. Cooking yes, football no.[/quote]Taps fingers while awaiting the anti sexist Forum Police to arrive.[:$]

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[quote user="ROBFLECK"]I might have Morty...but I''ve been honest... I sincerely think we might have done a "Stoke" ... and become a stable PL team , should we have had the "b*lls" for it .

But then again, the opposite might have been true too...[/quote]It would help if Delia and Michael were billionnaires like the Coates family of course but like many I do feel frustrated that our owners seem to live in fear of the colour red on a balance sheet.

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="ROBFLECK"]I might have Morty...but I''ve been honest... I sincerely think we might have done a "Stoke" ... and become a stable PL team , should we have had the "b*lls" for it .

But then again, the opposite might have been true too...[/quote]It would help if Delia and Michael were billionnaires like the Coates family of course but like many I do feel frustrated that our owners seem to live in fear of the colour red on a balance sheet.

[/quote]Maybe we should all get bank loans to finance Norwich City and put our money where our mouths are?Y''know, instead of telling somebody else to spend theirs?[;)]

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[quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="ROBFLECK"]I might have Morty...but I''ve been honest... I sincerely think we might have done a "Stoke" ... and become a stable PL team , should we have had the "b*lls" for it .

But then again, the opposite might have been true too...[/quote]It would help if Delia and Michael were billionnaires like the Coates family of course but like many I do feel frustrated that our owners seem to live in fear of the colour red on a balance sheet.

[/quote]

Do they though?

They haven''t been afraid to spend money, they''ve also experienced plenty of "red" on the balance sheet.

I think it seems like they feel that they have a responsibility to pass on an entity with as good a chance of a sustainable future as possible.

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[quote user="Duncan Edwards"][quote user="......and Smith must score."][quote user="ROBFLECK"]I might have Morty...but I''ve been honest... I sincerely think we might have done a "Stoke" ... and become a stable PL team , should we have had the "b*lls" for it .

But then again, the opposite might have been true too...[/quote]It would help if Delia and Michael were billionnaires like the Coates family of course but like many I do feel frustrated that our owners seem to live in fear of the colour red on a balance sheet.

[/quote]

Do they though?

They haven''t been afraid to spend money, they''ve also experienced plenty of "red" on the balance sheet.

I think it seems like they feel that they have a responsibility to pass on an entity with as good a chance of a sustainable future as possible.[/quote]

Well they are very much going the wrong way about that with their current fiddling whilst Rome burns.

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Jim, go and stand in the corner under the big sign that says "People that Duncan had in mind when he wrote this".[:D]

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Anybody willing to argue against the female of the species?, according to Mrs Boadicea Delia is not that bothered anymore, she has got her money back, and she is quite happy for Norwich City to bump along as they are.....

I find it interesting that when making comparisons of clubs with wealthy owners they refer to fellow Championship sides, rather than teams such as Leicester, Bournemouth, Watford and Southampton.

I remain of the opinion that Alex Neil is not the man to get us promoted, we will not get rid of him because we cannot afford to and even if we do he will be replaced by somebody of a similar ilk as we cannot afford a nor can we afford a manager of the calibre of Steve Bruce, or the sorts of players he would like to bring to the club..........

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