Redmond v Watford

[Guest]

So what are you saying Legend Iwan? That Alex Neil said "Nathan, I want you to play a free attacking role where you drift between wings at leisure, but DON''T take any men on and shoot when you get the opportunity. Just slow the game down, and punt some aimless crosses in when you fancy."

Far more likely is that when he realised we were relegated the shackles came off in his own head, and that he needs to actually perform if he wants to go to another Prem club.

Don''t get me wrong, I would very much like him to stay and perform, but when you compare the difference in his performances against Man U and Watford, when played in exactly the same position, it does make you wonder a) why he couldn''t perform like this when we really needed him to, and b) where the sudden motivation has come from.

[Legend Iwan 30]

No, Ian, I''m not saying any of that piffle you''ve written . But Neil has demanded for much of the season that Redmond remains defensively tight, not to break and leave gaps where we could be exploited, instead preferring to build attacks and allow others to advance forward.

If you don''t feel that''s the case, go through the questions I originally posed that you choose to ignore and consider if you really believe a young attacking player would all of a sudden after the Newcastle game decide to stop taking players on.

And yes, of course the Watford game is going to be different to the Man Utd one. From the way we set up against different opponents to the situation where we had to win last night to have any chance of survival - it''s a lot easier to come out swinging when your back''s against the wall.

And I''m sure you''re more than aware playing in the same position does not dictate the same role, which was evident in relation to Redmond and the two games you mention.

[Guest]

Okay, you show me evidence of where Alex Neil has told Redmond to stop taking players on when in a position to do so, and I''ll fully accept your opinion.

Also, we desperately needed 3 points (or at the very least a point) against Man U, so I can''t really see how it was any different to last night in that scenario.

[Woodman 92]

[quote user="Ian"]Okay, you show me evidence of where Alex Neil has told Redmond to stop taking players on when in a position to do so, and I''ll fully accept your opinion.

Also, we desperately needed 3 points (or at the very least a point) against Man U, so I can''t really see how it was any different to last night in that scenario.[/quote]

I think the difference between the Watford game and the Man U one is that most of us were expecting Sunderland to lose against Chelsea and we would therefore be within touching distance of them with a point from the Man U game and a win against Watford.

[Legend Iwan 30]

Ian, I''m not going to show you written proof as neither party have publicly said it. Although even without the quotes I''m sure you''re capable of working out the different tactics we''ve used and the roles players have been given.

And no, the Man Utd and Watford games weren''t the same scenario. Not even close. As mentioned by another poster, Sunderland played Chelsea and were only a point ahead of us. Newcastle were two points ahead and safe at that point. Neil wasn''t going to go full tilt in that situation. A closely-fought win, which could have so nearly happened if Jerome had buried his chance early on, would have seen us out the bottom three.

How about answering those questions I originally posed you now?

[Guest]

Okay, point taken about it being a different scenario from the offset, but there was certainly no where near as much urgency, even after we went 1-0 down.

Re: questions - do you mean these questions?

"Ian, why is it ''nonsense'' about the manager restricting him? Do you really think that Redmond has chosen since the Newcastle game to play more defensively by himself? To stroll up the pitch with the ball waiting for those around him to push forward instead of careering down the line and creating something special? To tuck in when he could keep wide and take people on? "

I assumed they were rhetorical, as we have already established that neither of us know the answer to those. Is it actually true that he has played more defensively since the Newcastle game? Let''s assume you''ve got some statistics/examples to back this up and take your word for it. It''s your opinion that this was all down to the manager deliberately restricting his role, my opinion is that it is a combination of factors, the most major of which is poor decision making and inconsistency on his part.

Ultimately, we didn''t do anywhere near enough in terms of creating and scoring chances this season, and he was a major part of this. I can completely understand fans'' frustrations that he suddenly has a worldy when things are effectively all over for us and when he knows other clubs are sniffing around.

[Guest]

And just to add - do you think Alex Neil told Redmond to back off at half time last night?

[Mello Yello 2,294]

I felt (and it''s only my opinion) that the team looked a lot more relaxed and seem to express themselves......Like the shackles had been removed.......Blimey, Redmond even headed the ball!

I would prefer for Redmond to remain, but if the right money is offered and it''s a decent Premiership Club that comes calling, I wish him well and thank him for his contribution. Although be it, he was sometimes quite frustrating.

Oh and thanks for that goal at Wembley......Ooh, was it really just over 12 months ago....?

[mrs miggins 0]

Who could replace him?

If we were to get £8-9m for him what players out there would people like to see?

[Alex Moss 2,165]

I''m pretty sure (certain) that Everton away will be his last game, hope all the travelling support give him a great send off, though his form has been patchy for us I will remember him for some great moments with us - will be sad to see him go, I still think we''ve not quite seen the best of him yet.

[Woodman 92]

Is £8-£9m realistic for a player with 12 months to go on a contract? My memory may be wrong, but wasn''t Brady in a similar situation and we paid £7m? Personally I think he''s better than Brady, so hopefully we would get that for a young, English player on the fringes of the full England squad. The irony is, Chris Hughton (who knows him well) may come calling if Brighton go up!

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="Woodman"]Is £8-£9m realistic for a player with 12 months to go on a contract? My memory may be wrong, but wasn''t Brady in a similar situation and we paid £7m? Personally I think he''s better than Brady, so hopefully we would get that for a young, English player on the fringes of the full England squad. The irony is, Chris Hughton (who knows him well) may come calling if Brighton go up![/quote]Today''s Fiver (well worth a daily read if you''re not familiar with it, BTW), is suggesting that Stoke, Palace and West Ham are all interested in Redders – it links to an article that''s currently returning a 404, but the URL makes it clear what they are purporting to report... [:)]https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/12/crystal-palace-stoke-city-west-ham-norwich-winger-nathan-redmondev?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Fiver+2016&utm_term=171894&subid=1283061&CMP=EMCFTBEML853

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

Hang on, just realised my mistake.Story here

[Gunthorpe 0]

Do we get a fee for Redmond (set by a tribunial) if he leaves on a free in summer 2017 as he is under 24 years of ageI thought Liverpool had to pay Burnley £8.5M for Ings after he ran his contract down doing the same thing

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="Gunthorpe"]Do we get a fee for Redmond (set by a tribunial) if he leaves on a free in summer 2017 as he is under 24 years of ageI thought Liverpool had to pay Burnley £8.5M for Ings after he ran his contract down doing the same thing[/quote]Yes we would, but I wouldn''t rely on a tribunal to get the full value of the player. The large Ings fee was the exception rather than the rule.

[morty 0]

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Gunthorpe"]Do we get a fee for Redmond (set by a tribunial) if he leaves on a free in summer 2017 as he is under 24 years of ageI thought Liverpool had to pay Burnley £8.5M for Ings after he ran his contract down doing the same thing[/quote]Yes we would, but I wouldn''t rely on a tribunal to get the full value of the player. The large Ings fee was the exception rather than the rule.[/quote]Don''t you have to have developed the player from a young age, for that to apply?

[ricardo 7,395]

We won''t see him again in yellow and green but we will certainly see more than 10 million quid.

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]Oh, for an edit button. I of course didn''t mean the opening goal at Wembley, but winning.[/quote]Keep pushing that edit button........we won 2-0. [;)]

[......and Smith must score. 1,343]

[quote user="GJP"]He''s been our best attacking player all season.....[/quote]No wonder we got relegated.

[Van wink 2,994]

Ricardo

"We won''t see him again in yellow and green but we will certainly see more than 10 million quid"

👍

[Feedthewolf 4,846]

[quote user="morty"][quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Gunthorpe"]Do we get a fee for Redmond (set by a tribunial) if he leaves on a free in summer 2017 as he is under 24 years of ageI thought Liverpool had to pay Burnley £8.5M for Ings after he ran his contract down doing the same thing[/quote]Yes we would, but I wouldn''t rely on a tribunal to get the full value of the player. The large Ings fee was the exception rather than the rule.[/quote]Don''t you have to have developed the player from a young age, for that to apply?[/quote]If a player''s contract expires before they reach 24 years of age, the club that the player is leaving are entitled to compensation for their investment in his development. Ings came from Bournemouth originally, he wasn''t a Burnley youth player, so that might actually work in our favour. They will also factor in first-team experience and international call-ups, both of which should work in our favour.Further reading here...

[morty 0]

[quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="morty"][quote user="Feedthewolf"][quote user="Gunthorpe"]Do we get a fee for Redmond (set by a tribunial) if he leaves on a free in summer 2017 as he is under 24 years of ageI thought Liverpool had to pay Burnley £8.5M for Ings after he ran his contract down doing the same thing[/quote]Yes we would, but I wouldn''t rely on a tribunal to get the full value of the player. The large Ings fee was the exception rather than the rule.[/quote]Don''t you have to have developed the player from a young age, for that to apply?[/quote]If a player''s contract expires before they reach 24 years of age, the club that the player is leaving are entitled to compensation for their investment in his development. Ings came from Bournemouth originally, he wasn''t a Burnley youth player, so that might actually work in our favour. They will also factor in first-team experience and international call-ups, both of which should work in our favour.Further reading here...[/quote]Aye fair enough, I thought the whole thing was developed to protect clubs that had developed players from academy level.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

Ings was a bournemouth yts iirc morty

[Well b back 3,208]

[quote user="Making Plans"]There''s no doubt Redmond could be a great player but then on the other hand he might not be.Having seen all his performances this season I would break them down into 3 moods - 1. Not interested - 40% of games. Lazy, slow, poor attitude, looks uninterested, can''t be bothered to track back and always ready to point the finger at other players when he''s the one who has not done his job or screwed up.2. Interested but not good enough - 40% of games. Unable to beat players, poor crosses, free kicks & corners that either don''t get past the first defender or go straight out of play on the other side. 3. Interested & excellent - 20% of games. Like tonight, quick, sharp and basically running the show. A match winner on his day. Sadly that''s only 1 in 5 games so can you afford to keep him in the side based on that or, especially when you''re in a hole, do you stop digging & try an alternative.He does seem to have hit a bit of form the last 2 or 3 games. That might be because he''s looking to get away or because he might have at last seen the light. If possible I''d keep him but we have to get him to sign a new contract and I don''t think that''s likely, I think he would have been offered one, and accepted it, if he wanted to stay. If we can''t keep him then I would want no less than £10m for him and I don''t think there would be a shortage of Clubs after him at that sort of price. He is holding all the aces and it will ultimately be his decision..With regards the current alternative, as far as I can see Jarvis is a one hit wonder. No problem with attitude or application but he does not convince me at all that he''s remotely good enough, even for the Champs.

[/quote]

Don''t mean to put facts in the way but we have gained 34 points this season. I believe when Redmond did not start we amassed 8 points ( 1 of which was gained with a Redmond equaliser from bench ) and 26 were amassed when he started. Probably 1/3 of all PL sides will try and sign him.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

http://readcrystalpalace.com/2016/05/12/crystal-palace-join-west-ham-and-stoke-in-chase-for-winger/

The vultures are circling...

As for Jordan Mutch, try Dwight Gayle instead and give us £3m or so and we have a deal.

[sgncfc 1,228]

[quote user="Legend Iwan"]No, Ian, I''m not saying any of that piffle you''ve written . But Neil has demanded for much of the season that Redmond remains defensively tight, not to break and leave gaps where we could be exploited, instead preferring to build attacks and allow others to advance forward.

If you don''t feel that''s the case, go through the questions I originally posed that you choose to ignore and consider if you really believe a young attacking player would all of a sudden after the Newcastle game decide to stop taking players on.

And yes, of course the Watford game is going to be different to the Man Utd one. From the way we set up against different opponents to the situation where we had to win last night to have any chance of survival - it''s a lot easier to come out swinging when your back''s against the wall.

And I''m sure you''re more than aware playing in the same position does not dictate the same role, which was evident in relation to Redmond and the two games you mention.[/quote]

Defensively tight, like against Swansea when he didn''t track their goalscorer? Or defensively tight like when he has half the pitch to run into against Manure and cuts back inside yet again?

Redmond is not that young anymore. He is 22 years old and has been playing regular football for 5 seasons. For his type of player he should be close to his peak years. He will never be a consistent player but he is capable of being a very creative and dangerous player. Unfortunately he is lazy and occasionally brainless like all similar wingers (Walcott springs to mind) but he will only thrive in a team which can afford his type of luxury player.

I see he is rumoured to prefer a move to Palace - that just shows how brainless he is as he thinks he will play more than Bolasie or Puncheon, both of whom are as good if not better going forward and much, much better defensively.

I doubt he would play much for Stoke once they concede a few goals down his side because he hasn''t tracked back AGAIN.

Every so often someone comes along who is so good you can let them do their thing and ask others to cover to help them play - Huckerby, for instance. Redmond really isn''t that special.

It says everything about the state of English football that we will get £10m for him.

[GJP 79]

Walcott is a fairly poor comparison. And similarly to call Redmond brainless is wide of the mark.

It''s quite clear he is a thinking player.

I would be interested to see how many Prem wide players have scored more goals than him this season.

[Legend Iwan 30]

Apologies for the late reply, Ian. Nothing rhetorical about the questions posed, their purpose were to see, having attempted to answer them, whether you still felt that Redmond was choosing to not attack when the option was available. I''m also aware of Redmond''s limitations and issues of inconsistency, although the latter is exasperated by his time in and out of the team.

And, ......and Smith must score, well aware of the score, thanks: Jerome opening goal, Redmond the winning one :) An edit button would be wonderful, though.

[Jools 584]

[quote user="ricardo"]We won''t see him again in yellow and green but we will certainly see more than 10 million quid.[/quote]Here''s hoping all of the proceeds go into defence [Y]

[Splendid Rush 2]

This board in a nutshell.

Player has a bad game:

''boooooooooo''

Player has a good game:

''booooooooooo''