I LIKE Russell Martin

[Monty13 2,234]

I like the guy. Good bloke, good captain, articulate in interviews and I personally think a decent PL standard CB.

Someone with his football attributes but more talent wouldn''t be playing for us. That''s the reality of us being a un-established PL club at the minute.

[ruthers1 0]

''I don''t think he is good enough to play regularly at centre half in the prem but is good enough to play right back.''

Why do you gullible lot constantly fall for this nonsense?

The OP is clearly on the wind up again otherwise why were the only words he chose to put in bold about RM being a good defender?! Because it''s clearly the only part of the sentence he doesn''t believe himself and knows the vast majority of us on this board who understand football don''t either.

Russell Martin is a lovely bloke, smashing role model, great spokesman blah blah blah but he is not a Premier League quality footballer - at centre half or right back.

Frapinitup knows it, you know it and in half a dozen or so games AN will know it too.

Unfortunately by this time the transfer window will have slammed shut and we will be shipping goals until the Xmas decs go back up in the loft, sometime in January.

[nutty nigel 7,534]

[quote user="ruthers1"]''I don''t think he is good enough to play regularly

at centre half in the prem but is good enough to play right back.'' Why do you

gullible lot constantly fall for this nonsense? The OP is clearly on the wind up

again otherwise why were the only words he chose to put in bold about RM being a

good defender?! Because it''s clearly the only part of the sentence he doesn''t

believe himself and knows the vast majority of us on this board who

understand football don''t either. Russell Martin is a lovely bloke,

smashing role model, great spokesman blah blah blah but he is not a Premier

League quality footballer - at centre half or right back. Frapinitup knows it,

you know it and in half a dozen or so games AN will know it too. Unfortunately

by this time the transfer window will have slammed shut and we will be shipping

goals until the Xmas decs go back up in the loft, sometime in

January.[/quote]

 

I always wonder about this. It''s often those who profess to understand football who get things massively wrong. It''s been those who profess to understand football who have been writing off Russell Martin since he joined us in League One. The last time we had this was with Grant Holt. Posters "who understand football" regailed us with how we''d be relegated if we went into the season with Holty as our main striker. And then those "who understand football" creamed themselves at the thought of RVW and Hooper as our strikers. Now I don''t profess to be a football expert. But I do know a little bit about bog cleaning and bingo calling and it seems to me that RVW and Hooper combined can''t achieve what Grant Holt could on his own...

 

  

[Van wink 2,994]

I love off the wall.

[Mr.Carrow 376]

When I rewatched the Wembley game (having been half drunk and too busy singing myself hoarse to pay too much attention when I was there), three things really hit me: how utterly superb Jerome and Hoolihan were, and how utterly superb Martins passing from the back was. I challenge anyone to watch the game again and disagree. And the fact is he was trying risky, penetrating passes rather than "passing the buck" with simple short balls or hoofs and most of them worked.

All our defenders will look a bit daft on occasions this season and, of course, we will concede quite a few goals, but Martin is clearly a very capable ball-playing centre half and already a proven Premier league and international player.

[pliff 4]

Any decent footballer can play the passing game when not under pressure as was the case at Wembley our midfield and Jerome were that good the defence was rarely under pressure. Martin will not/can''t cope with Feds with pace-fact

[Ray 111]

pliff

So, " Martin will not/can''t cope with Feds with pace-fact"

Assume you meant ''forwards'' and not the FBI?

How many CB''s can cope with pace any better than RM or SB, of course there are some I agree but typically they are playing at Champions League/Europa Cup level and command a commensurate salary

Any play-of final at Wembley I should imagine is playing under pressure, playing in the most lucrative club game in world football is even more so I guess but maybe you know differently?

Just because you end your post with ''fact'' doesn''t make it so. Many years ago there were probably people who said, "The world is flat-fact" I also recall a certain pundit saying, in a very factual way, "You can''t win anything with kids.", well blow me down, the world is essentially round and the kids did the double!

[mrs miggins 0]

Mr.Carrow wrote the following post at 05/08/2015 9:43 PM:

When I rewatched the Wembley game (having been half drunk and too busy singing myself hoarse to pay too much attention when I was there), three things really hit me: how utterly superb Jerome and Hoolihan were, and how utterly superb Martins passing from the back was. I challenge anyone to watch the game again and disagree. And the fact is he was trying risky, penetrating passes rather than "passing the buck" with simple short balls or hoofs and most of them worked.

All our defenders will look a bit daft on occasions this season and, of course, we will concede quite a few goals, but Martin is clearly a very capable ball-playing centre half and already a proven Premier league and international player.

----------------------------------

I now challenge you to watch the two previous games in which the opposition tried to attack.

[Squire 0]

[quote user="ruthers1"]''Russell Martin is a lovely bloke, smashing role model, great spokesman blah blah blah but he is not a Premier League quality footballer - at centre half or right back.

Frapinitup knows it, you know it and in half a dozen or so games AN will know it too.

Unfortunately by this time the transfer window will have slammed shut and we will be shipping goals until the Xmas decs go back up in the loft, sometime in January.[/quote]

Spot on Ruthers. Still hoping AN will pull a CB from the hat. Would actually prefer Ryan B or Wisdom (his preferred position) at CB with Elliott B at RB. Bass doesn''t fill me with confidence either. Usually got away with dithering in the Champs but unlikely to in the PL. Still, in AN we trust........... at present!

[First Wazzock 902]

He''s a top bloke and ''One of us''

[GJP 79]

[quote user="Squire"]  Would actually prefer Ryan B or Wisdom (his preferred position) at CB with Elliott B at RB.  [/quote]

Half of the defence made up of R Bennett and E Bennett...

 

we''d be relegated by Christmas.

[BroadstairsR 2,166]

I agree with the OP and haven''t liked to see the way some fans have turned on Martin.

Approaching 200 games for Norwich, with nearly 100 in the Premier League, these statistics, along with his international appearances and the ultimate recognition by his peers suggest he need not be over-bothered.

Signed by Paul Lambert for peanuts he has, above all, given the Club excellent value.

Managers know what they''re getting in terms of the overall package, and some fans need be fully aware of this.

He may or may not always be up to the mark at times in the coming season, but I wouldn''t want him at any other club right now.

The current "Mr. Norwich."

[Baywing 0]

Whats all this he''s an International crap.....FFS the guys Scottish Nicola Sturgen could get a game in their defense if she was 6 inches taller !!

[Donkey dangler 0]

[quote user="ruthers1"]''I don''t think he is good enough to play regularly at centre half in the prem but is good enough to play right back.''

Why do you gullible lot constantly fall for this nonsense?

The OP is clearly on the wind up again otherwise why were the only words he chose to put in bold about RM being a good defender?! Because it''s clearly the only part of the sentence he doesn''t believe himself and knows the vast majority of us on this board who understand football don''t either.

Russell Martin is a lovely bloke, smashing role model, great spokesman blah blah blah but he is not a Premier League quality footballer - at centre half or right back.

Frapinitup knows it, you know it and in half a dozen or so games AN will know it too.

Unfortunately by this time the transfer window will have slammed shut and we will be shipping goals until the Xmas decs go back up in the loft, sometime in January.[/quote]

I agree the OP is on a windup mission and I agree with you that Russell Martin is not good enough to play in the Premiership.

[Len 74]

The only reason he''s still here is because we were relegated. No?

[Mr.Carrow 376]

Mrs Miggins: What, you mean the two games against a team who finished just below us as one of the highest goalscoring teams in the league with a handful of a striker who was in the form of his life? Yet they only scored two goals against us and barely had another chance as they were snuffed out by a defence which was amongst the meanest in the league after a quality manager took over?

[norfolkngood 1,087]

it is strange how the right side of our defence is the weak link normally left side as more footballers are natural right footed ...

If I had a to set up a team to attack us it would be diagonal balls in between whit and martin and attack them two and like others have said they will be exposed in the PL

[mrs miggins 0]

Mr.Carrow wrote the following post at 06/08/2015 9:00 AM:

Mrs Miggins: What, you mean the two games against a team who finished just below us as one of the highest goalscoring teams in the league with a handful of a striker who was in the form of his life? Yet they only scored two goals against us and barely had another chance as they were snuffed out by a defence which was amongst the meanest in the league after a quality manager took over?

---------------------------------------

So key points in this post are:

-the scum were one of the highest scoring teams in the league (6th highest scorers) as their striker was in the form of his life

- they only scored 2 goals in the two games

-we had a very good defensive record for half a season.

These points are completely irrelevant as we''re now in the PL (however the point would be a good one if we were in the same league). The fact that the striker was in the form of his life still doesn''t mean Russell Martin shouldn''t be held accountable, like the rest of the team, for the goal Murphy contributed to (speaking about the goal where Martin was beaten in the air by Murphy in particular). To say he''s (Murphy) in the form of his life is irrelevant; if the player were Cody McDonald and he was in the form of his life, should it be unquestioned if he were to score against us if we were playing Gillingham (if he''s still playing there?).

The fact that the scum scored against us in both games of the play-offs is not something to put on the ''pro-martin'' list.

You''re right however when you say we had the best defensive record since AN took over which was half a season. On the other hand Burnley had the best defensive record when they went up with the likes of Shackell at CB, they thought it''d be fine having the same defence in the PL, wrong.

I think we as fans need to realise we are making a physical step up into a better league with better opposition. It doesn''t matter if we only let in 2 goals in tow games against the scum, we are now coming up against better teams. It doesn''t matter that a 32 year old championship striker was in the form of his life, we''re going up against £8m, £12m, £20m, £40m strikers in a few days, therefore it''s not wrong to point out the weaknesses in the team; that pairing of Whitts and Martin is a weakness, the biggest weakness in the team.

[hogesar 9,672]

RM is a great Centre Back for a team looking to get up from the championship, and a good one for a lower half Prem team who like to play a high-ish line and play the ball out from the back.

Thankfully, we qualify as that, so he''s more than good enough for us.

I''ll also go for the views of Neil Adams, Alex Neil, Paul Lamber and Gordon Strachan over the likes of ruthers, miggins and vintage.

[mrs miggins 0]

Doesn''t make any sense because I''d have him playing in the team for Scotland if I was manager (god forbid), same as I''d have him in my team in the championship just like AN and NA and at RB like Lambert did. Would still like him at RB in the PL as well.

[ruthers1 0]

Thankfully the talk will be over soon and the proof will be in the pudding.

Martin and Bassong are bound to start together for the first few games so we''ll soon see who the best judges are.

I sincerely hope it''s you, Lappinitup and co.

Will gladly admit I was wrong if so.

[TCCANARY 263]

[quote user="ruthers1"]Thankfully the talk will be over soon and the proof will be in the pudding. Martin and Bassong are bound to start together for the first few games so we''ll soon see who the best judges are. I sincerely hope it''s you, Lappinitup and co. Will gladly admit I was wrong if so.[/quote]

 

First time Neil Adams, Alex Neil, Paul Lambert and Gordon Strachan have been described as ''and co.'' [:)]

 

 

 

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ruthers1"]Martin and Bassong are bound to start together for the first few games so we''ll soon see who the best judges are.

I sincerely hope it''s you, Lappinitup and co.[/quote]Can you see what you''ve done there ruth?You''re clearly stating Alex Neil is going to select the wrong team from the word go.It''s not just Russell Martin who isn''t good enough but our manager too.

[ruthers1 0]

I like AN as much as the next man Lapps, absolutely brilliant manager but in my opinion like many of you he has let RM''s undoubted qualities off the pitch cloud his judgement of his footballing abilities on it.

That''s the only blot on his copybook since he took over. But it is only my opinion and as I say time will tell whether I''m right or not...

[Mr.Carrow 376]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Mr.Carrow wrote the following post at 06/08/2015 9:00 AM:

Mrs Miggins: What, you mean the two games against a team who finished just below us as one of the highest goalscoring teams in the league with a handful of a striker who was in the form of his life? Yet they only scored two goals against us and barely had another chance as they were snuffed out by a defence which was amongst the meanest in the league after a quality manager took over?

---------------------------------------

So key points in this post are:

-the scum were one of the highest scoring teams in the league (6th highest scorers) as their striker was in the form of his life

- they only scored 2 goals in the two games

-we had a very good defensive record for half a season.

These points are completely irrelevant as we''re now in the PL (however the point would be a good one if we were in the same league). The fact that the striker was in the form of his life still doesn''t mean Russell Martin shouldn''t be held accountable, like the rest of the team, for the goal Murphy contributed to (speaking about the goal where Martin was beaten in the air by Murphy in particular). To say he''s (Murphy) in the form of his life is irrelevant; if the player were Cody McDonald and he was in the form of his life, should it be unquestioned if he were to score against us if we were playing Gillingham (if he''s still playing there?).

The fact that the scum scored against us in both games of the play-offs is not something to put on the ''pro-martin'' list.

You''re right however when you say we had the best defensive record since AN took over which was half a season. On the other hand Burnley had the best defensive record when they went up with the likes of Shackell at CB, they thought it''d be fine having the same defence in the PL, wrong.

I think we as fans need to realise we are making a physical step up into a better league with better opposition. It doesn''t matter if we only let in 2 goals in tow games against the scum, we are now coming up against better teams. It doesn''t matter that a 32 year old championship striker was in the form of his life, we''re going up against £8m, £12m, £20m, £40m strikers in a few days, therefore it''s not wrong to point out the weaknesses in the team; that pairing of Whitts and Martin is a weakness, the biggest weakness in the team.[/quote]

"Completely irrelevant"?? No. Less relevant? Yes. Murphy beat every defender he came up against in the air- that`s what a high level targetman does. Deeney is widely regarded as the best striker to get promoted and barely got a sniff against us. "Better league with better opposition"- obviously correct but do you really see a vast gulf between the top six of the Champs and bottom six of the Prem? I don`t. And don`t you find it slightly ironic that we spent all of last season being told that we had the best squad in the Champs, but now our best performers within that squad (and Martin was definitely one) aren`t good enough for the Prem?

I think the one being unrealistic is you. Every defender in the Prem will be made to look a fool at times this season because that is what the top forwards in the world do. And obviously the frequency of those mistakes will increase as you move down the table, but Martin has been there, done it, was one of our better performers in the Prem and has grown into his new role admirably. I would love to sign Van Dijk but could you really have any more confidence in him than Martin given the paltry standard of striker he is used to playing against? Other than him, who else could we realistically sign who has better credentials than Martin?

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="ruthers1"]I like AN as much as the next man Lapps, absolutely brilliant manager but in my opinion like many of you he has let RM''s undoubted qualities off the pitch cloud his judgement of his footballing abilities on it.

That''s the only blot on his copybook since he took over. But it is only my opinion and as I say time will tell whether I''m right or not...[/quote]An absolutely brilliant manager wouldn''t make the glaring mistake you suggest he will ruth.If his judgement is clouded by personality, then we will surely be relegated sooner rather than later.A fatal flaw that only a few of you can see.

[mrs miggins 0]

(In response to MC)

It''s more the partnership of him and whitts which I''m opposed to; the thought of Martin having to keep on doing Whitt'' job for him is a worry. The CB''s I''d go for would be:

Harlee Dean I also think would be fantastic. Brentford were a good side that played some really good effective football which could have only been carried out by CB''s who were good on the ball. He''s the player thats the most realistic but of sufficient quality for a team trying to survive relegation imo. The back line of Ruddy in goal then

Martin Dean Bassong Olsson

to me looks good.

Even someone like Angella would be good (just an example, I know he wouldn''t come as he''s also just gone up with Watford)

Paulo Oliveira

Get any of the players below and we would be in dreamland I feel.

Virgil Van Dijk (either going to stay at Celtic this season or will go to Everton or Saints)

Heiko Westermann

Damien Da Silva

Kaya (at Galatasaray don''t know his first name, but wouldn''t come unless we were mid-table team like Everton I feel)

Knoch(e) (unrealistic but if Newcastle could''ve got him...)

We need a CB who''s good on the ball (ball playing CB) but can also defend (unlike Martin who''s just good on the ball)

[hogesar 9,672]

Yeah, problem is Miggins, Martin CAN defend.

It''s kinda been his thing for...his whole career, in fact. A defender.

[mrs miggins 0]

Ok, let me be specific then. He can''t defend as well as a regular Premier League CB should imo. As a RB imo he''s a pretty solid PL RB.

He''s played his whole career at RB, it''s only in the last few years he''s been played at CB on a regular basis...''in fact.''

[lappinitup 629]

[quote user="mrs miggins"]Ok, let me be specific then. He can''t defend as well as a regular Premier League CB should imo. As a RB imo he''s a pretty solid PL RB.fact.[/quote]If you can see this miggo, why can''t Alex Neil and Gordon Strachan?