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Has he been sacked? I'm surprised Sky haven't mentioned it......

Modern science is the only thing that is proven correct. To go back to my original post, if an 'alternative' treatment undergoes clinical trials and is shown to be effective, it stops being alternative. This isn't religious or faith-based, it's evidence based. Non-vaccinated children do prove a risk to the herd immunity that vaccination brings so there is clear logic in the suggestion that they be kept away from those who have done the right thing. Using emotive language doesn't help a reasonable debate. There's an obvious caveat to what I say. No system is 100% effective and there will always be flaws, whether human or process, in any system. But individual errors or weaknesses do not invalidate the overall system. The point about science is that by its very process it is open to refinements, testing and improvements. Sometimes external factors like individual or corporate self-interest can distort that. That doesn't mean we should throw away the scientific system, but rather that we should be open and questioning, as Ray kind of suggested, and look to continuously improve how it works. Not revert to unproven remedies based on magical thinking.

Could not agree more

I am sorry to hear that it's that bad, but I am glad you have found a way to manage it. You're not actually talking about homeopathy though KG. Homeopathy is a very specific pseudoscience, this may class as alternative medicine, but to me just sounds like a sensible thing to have to help you see past your problem and cope. Lakey, I take back some of my support of your comments (which I know will hurt you deeply), I misunderstood your meaning based on the last couple of posts... If you have a medical problem you should always seek professional help before scouring the internet and self diagnosing, yes, look at alternatives when you actually know what you are looking for and what the 'conventional' options are. Drs are not infallible, but they are extensively trained, not just in specific symptoms and treatments, but also in how to diagnose and reaserch conditions. Things like acupuncture, whilst not fully explainable have been accepted because empirically it can be shown to be effective, the internet and social media, however, can be a very dangerous place to go looking for treatments, it is full of people selling miracles to desperate people and trying to use the 1 person in 5000 that happened to get better as evidence that something works.

I do believe that younger people are far less racist than their parents or grandparents. So many of the Tommy Robinson supporters I have witnessed at first hand were my age or certainly my generation. And most of us were never racist but made racist jokes using the term Rastus etc. We didn't put the two together to be honest. Of course we would be hammered now but we can't change the past or evolution. But there was a hard core of people who were very racist from that era. And they will never change. But they will die out. Some of their offspring might keep the faith so to speak but they will be too few to be of any consequence. I believe coloured and black people will have to be a bit more patient, hard as that might sound to them. I predict that in twenty years, apart from the real sickos, this will all be history. Are there any outburst or chants at Carrow Road?

The political world is full of such folk

No comment other than Pot Kettle Black https://www.cnn.com/2016/08/10/politics/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-pay-to-play/index.html

Who is this Chang? He sounds foreign.....

A pain in the neck? You Lakey? Why does that not surprise me? 🤪😀

Paul Lambert vs Paul Lambert. The lad would be brilliant and I couldn't ask anything more of him.

Pogba wins then

I think that different branches of medicine are a bit like different branches of religion or philosophy, each with their own adherents and followers. On vaccination for example, those who seek compulsorary vaccination or wish to deny non-vaccinated children the right to go to school, belong to a sort of religious extremism akin to that which fuels ISIS. The holier than thou attitude that modern science is the only thing that is correct, is just as dangerous!

Don't forget the ginger Pele, Gary Doherty

Whatever the f*ck that means... didn't you ever take chemistry? By your stupid example I can claim salt is chlorine "based" f*ck sake... I know I sounds angry and it's because I am, stupids nonsense like this antivaxx sh*t kills people.

I agree that he won't play for us again, I would say that if he played in a team that was set up to accommodate his skills he is an excellent player possibly good enough to play in a top championship side or maybe a lower prem team. He doesn't suit or tactics or the club ethos so the sooner he goes the better for our club.

So much to go at here... Define natural. Aspirin is derived from willow bark, is that a "natural" remedy? Because a treatment worked for you, or your wife or even both of you, does that mean it is proven? No. Do you know that you would have caught flu without it? No. Correlation is not causation. "what has been around for so long is now labelled 'alternative' as opposed to the medical breakthroughs that have come about in the last 100 years or so" - I'm not so sure. I would suggest that it's the stuff that is tested and that fails those tests which is labelled 'alternative'. Please, please, please don't throw aspersions on vaccination, unless you have some very concrete evidence - just listing some potentially iffy ingredients in no way invalidates the enormous, in fact enormously enormous improvements in public health they have delivered. Look at the damage Andrew Wakefield caused and the recent growth in diseases that were previously considered beaten like mumps and measles. People who spread unjustified rumours about vaccination need to understand their responsibility for the damage it causes to children and think carefully before doing it. I can't see the link between your overriding point about taking personal responsibility for one's own health and alternative medicine. Yes, absolutely educate and treat yourself before calling on our creaking health service, but it's irrelevant whether the treatment you choose is "natural" or not, what matters is if it's effective. Run out of time, but I could go on and on ...

The reason alternative medicine is called alternative medicine is because if it worked it would be called medicine. Nuff said.

I work in clinical research, the standard quadrivalent flu jab covers the 4 strains of influenza that WHO (World Health Organisation) predict will be prevalent in the northern hemisphere for the winter season. This year for the 2018/19 flu season they are: A/Michigan/45/2015 (H1N1)pdm09-like virus; A/Singapore/INFIMH-16-0019/2016 (H3N2)-like virus; B/Colorado/06/2017-like virus (B/Victoria/2/87 lineage); B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata/16/88 lineage) The vaccine will have very little success against any other strain of the virus. There is then the level of immune response that must be show in the clinical trails. In the main vaccination population of the over 65s, the immune response only needs to be 30% for seroconversion (a four-fold increase in antibody) for the vaccine to be deemed successful. So whilst there is no doubt the vaccine does offer some protection, in reality the vaccine alone isn't anywhere close to guaranteeing a flu free winter.

Amazing. All these millions of pounds spent on scientifically tried and tested vaccines with trials proving that they reduce deaths in vulnerable groups could be saved. Just like that. Why ever isn't it universally accepted?