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a1canary

Staying up next season will be easy...

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...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it, but here''s why i say it. Every season there is at least one complete basket case club who go down more as a result of instability and mis-managment off the field than to do with the team that plays on the field.

Two years ago it was Blackburn and Wolves, and should really have been QPR as well. But this season QPR''s time was up after supposed saviour Fernandes'' naivety was fully exposed. I wonder if the Wizard STILL wishes Fernandes had taken over our club?

Next season, i think there could be more than one club for whom it all goes pear shaped off (and then on) the pitch. Here are the candidates.

Stoke: Pulis'' departure, while in a way one might sympathise with the fans, has Charlton and Curbishley, Bolton and Allardyce written all over it. Those managers were perfect fits for their clubs and when they left, the club fortunes headed south pretty rapidly. I wonder if the Stoke owner has realised that if he wants sexy football at the Britannia, it''s not just the manager who he will need to replace.

Sunderland: I was pretty convinced that despite the initial lift, Di Canio would prove a more destructive than constructive influence at the Stadium of Light and that they would still go down. I can''t wait to watch him managing Sunderland in the PL next season but i wouldn''t have those sentiments if i was a fan. He reminds me of Keane on steriods.

Southampton: The manner of Adkins sacking from Southampton tells you all you need to know about the potential upheavel that can always be around the corner at St Mary''s. That the owner threatened to walk out of the club with their enigmatic new manager in tow at the end of what could only be described by onlookers as a successful season... is another worrying sign for Saints fans.

Cardiff: Foreign ownership is not a pre-requisite for instability behind the scenes at a football club but it certainly helps! And any owner who is prepared to change the club colours in the belief that it will make the club more attractive overseas, has got to be a worry, even if it hasn''t done any damage to the club''s prospects thus far. It will be interesting to see how their summer recruitment goes and if their Malaysian owner manages not to tread the path of his compatriot at Loftus Road! If they don''t start well, who knows what might happen down there.

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yeah hopefully it ends that way and with our the transfer look to be going at the moment we should be quite confident going into next season

OTBC

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[quote user="a1canary"]

...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it, but here''s why i say it. Every season there is at least one complete basket case club who go down more as a result of instability and mis-managment off the field than to do with the team that plays on the field.

Two years ago it was Blackburn and Wolves, and should really have been QPR as well. But this season QPR''s time was up after supposed saviour Fernandes'' naivety was fully exposed. I wonder if the Wizard STILL wishes Fernandes had taken over our club?

Next season, i think there could be more than one club for whom it all goes pear shaped off (and then on) the pitch. Here are the candidates.

Stoke: Pulis'' departure, while in a way one might sympathise with the fans, has Charlton and Curbishley, Bolton and Allardyce written all over it. Those managers were perfect fits for their clubs and when they left, the club fortunes headed south pretty rapidly. I wonder if the Stoke owner has realised that if he wants sexy football at the Britannia, it''s not just the manager who he will need to replace.

Sunderland: I was pretty convinced that despite the initial lift, Di Canio would prove a more destructive than constructive influence at the Stadium of Light and that they would still go down. I can''t wait to watch him managing Sunderland in the PL next season but i wouldn''t have those sentiments if i was a fan. He reminds me of Keane on steriods.

Southampton: The manner of Adkins sacking from Southampton tells you all you need to know about the potential upheavel that can always be around the corner at St Mary''s. That the owner threatened to walk out of the club with their enigmatic new manager in tow at the end of what could only be described by onlookers as a successful season... is another worrying sign for Saints fans.

Cardiff: Foreign ownership is not a pre-requisite for instability behind the scenes at a football club but it certainly helps! And any owner who is prepared to change the club colours in the belief that it will make the club more attractive overseas, has got to be a worry, even if it hasn''t done any damage to the club''s prospects thus far. It will be interesting to see how their summer recruitment goes and if their Malaysian owner manages not to tread the path of his compatriot at Loftus Road! If they don''t start well, who knows what might happen down there.

[/quote]

 

An understanable mistake, a1, because the man in question behaves as if he was the owner! You mean, I think, Cortese, who is the chairman, and makes McNally look like a cuddly favourite uncle by comparison, but the club is still owned by the Liebherr family. If the Liebherrs got fed up that would certainly be worrying; I am not so sure that Cortese going - with or without the manager - would be so disruptive.

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I was going to post a thread on those lines myself, although probably without the "easy."

 

We are surely going up the pecking order and I feel you can add both Hull and even Fulham to the list of more vulnerables.

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I am not quite sure I agree with the word "easy", because there will be other clubs whom we must beat, and even the ones you mention have some useful players who could hurt us.

 There are indeed some situations which, if not managed could lead to acrimony and failure. Possibly the "new manager" problem could be the main reason. I read recently that only two Premiership managers have been in post for two years or more, - Wenger and Pardew, and the latter looks to have a precarious hold on his job! There has been a merry-go-round at the end of the season this year, and some will find themselves in the position of CH last year - very late appointed, and therefore late to decide what is needed and find transfer targets.

 

It''s encouraging, but we must rely on a settled squad with a few additions, with a good relationship with manager and staff. We finished the season well, and we can be optimistic.

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Far too early to say...

 

Looking at the existing Prem teams at risk.  Stoke, yes maybe losing Pulis will turn out to be a mistake, but it rather depends on who they bring in.  Southampton have looked comfortable for the 2nd half of the season and while it''s never good to have disputes aired in public, it doesn''t mean it will turn into a real problem.  At Sunderland, it wouldn''t be a surprise if they get shot of Di Canio early on, and again it would depend on who they brought in.  So all of them are at risk, but we''d be foolish to count on it.


Then the newly promoted teams - it''s easy to say they all have squads that are too weak for the Prem.  Everyone said the same about us and Swansea when we came up. 

 

This season we made the mistake of being over-confident in our opening game at Fulham and I think we were lucky to be so comprehensively thrashed, because it gave the players no alternative but to knuckle down again.  I hope we don''t have to learn the same lesson at the start of next season !

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On the face of it, we should be pushing into the top half of the table, in reality we are more likely to end up around the 14th or 15th place.

 

I for one would be happy if we finished 17th again, but would be over the moon if we could push top 7.

 

There a more clubs who have hed more seaosns with bigger budgets who''s fans will be saying pretty much the same thing. Just point ot the likes of Newcastle top 7 finish one year the next year nearly relegated. In this league anything can be achieved beteeen 20th to 7th in reality.

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[quote user="Indy"]

On the face of it, we should be pushing into the top half of the table, in reality we are more likely to end up around the 14th or 15th place.

I for one would be happy if we finished 17th again, but would be over the moon if we could push top 7.

There a more clubs who have hed more seaosns with bigger budgets who''s fans will be saying pretty much the same thing. Just point ot the likes of Newcastle top 7 finish one year the next year nearly relegated. In this league anything can be achieved beteeen 20th to 7th in reality.

[/quote]

 

Yes, 17th again LOL.  I know what you mean, but personally I don''t think I''d be satisfied with 17th next year, my aim is higher.

 

Looking at the table this year, you''ve got the top 5, then Everton and Liverpool on 63 & 61 points, then everyone else (who survived) packed in between 39-49 points and the relegated clubs below.  When you have so many teams in the middle, it only takes a late win or two to change someone''s league position markedly, as we''ve just proved.  There''s not really much difference between a team on 46 points (9th place) and 41 points (16th). 

 

Next year I hope that a clutch of "pigeons" fall away at the bottom fairly soon, as the year before when 5 teams were clearly the relegation candidates soon on (and us not being one of them of course).  I''d want us to be consistently towards the top end of the teams in the middle and never at any serious risk.

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LOL

 

We ain''t finished anywhere near that coveted 17th place in the last 2 seasons. Could next season be the one...

 

[;)]

 

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[quote user="nutty nigel"]

LOL

 

We ain''t finished anywhere near that coveted 17th place in the last 2 seasons. Could next season be the one...

 

[;)]

 

[/quote]

 

At least that would be exciting. Something to play for right until the death, like the good old days in the Championship..

 

 

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[quote user="Warren Hill"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

LOL

We ain''t finished anywhere near that coveted 17th place in the last 2 seasons. Could next season be the one...

[;)]

[/quote]

At least that would be exciting. Something to play for right until the death, like the good old days in the Championship..

[/quote]

 

Yes, we had such a dull end to the season.

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Add WBA to the list too.

I still think their manager could end up back at Chelsea as Mourinho''s assistant and they will lose a big part of their team if Lukaku doesn''t return on loan next season.

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[quote user="Salopian"]

I am not quite sure I agree with the word "easy", because there will be other clubs whom we must beat, and even the ones you mention have some useful players who could hurt us.

 There are indeed some situations which, if not managed could lead to acrimony and failure. Possibly the "new manager" problem could be the main reason. I read recently that only two Premiership managers have been in post for two years or more, - Wenger and Pardew, and the latter looks to have a precarious hold on his job! There has been a merry-go-round at the end of the season this year, and some will find themselves in the position of CH last year - very late appointed, and therefore late to decide what is needed and find transfer targets.

It''s encouraging, but we must rely on a settled squad with a few additions, with a good relationship with manager and staff. We finished the season well, and we can be optimistic.

[/quote]

With all the money around in the PL (inc. before the latest tv deal) there are undoubtedly good quality individual players in every team but the central point i''m making is that the TEAM that goes out on the pitch can be affected by off pitch instability, and hence the team often doesn''t add up to the sum of its parts. Conversely, a really well run, stable club with players playing for each other and the shirt, often adds up to more than the sum of its parts. I think there will be more than enough of the former to keep us away from relegation, provided we continue as we are and nothing disastrous happens. IMO there are a number of clubs that are still badly run or are particularly susceptible to making disruptive decisions, such that they affect the performance of the team. If you want an example, you only need to look at the last game we played!

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I think we have moved on now from being happy with 17th place. City have a strong squad to take forward next season with RvW and at least 4-5 new PL quality players coming in during pre-season. I''d be happy with consolidating a mid-table finish again (between 8th and 13th), but we should be aiming at the upper end of that group. I think Watford and Hull will both struggle, and possibly Cardiff as well. Stoke and Sunderland may also struggle, but I think Southampton should survive. If Villa lose Benteke, and possibly Wiemann as well, they could also be in trouble. The key is to concentrate on our own strengths though and not worry about the others.

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[quote user="a1canary"]

...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it,[/quote]

Yes, very stupid

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="a1canary"]

...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it,[/quote]

Yes, very stupid

[/quote]

 

Purely and attention grabbing thread title of course... After all, as a certain person has oft repeated in the last 9 months,

"there are no easy games in this, the Barclays Premier League."

He''s a sponsor''s dream is our manager!

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Its going to be tough.   Its a tough league and we will have to fight as hard as ever to stay in it and progress higher.    We''ve seen it this season.   The unbeaten run and in seventh place at one point. But you only have to lose a little form - and that can happen to the best teams - before you find yourself looking over your shoulder again.  We''re not going to find teams rolling over in front of us because we have been in the league for two full seasons.  We are still going to be one of the teams that other teams will expect to beat, so its going to be anything but easy.  

But we are a club with a great team ethic and a good manager and that will count for a lot in the final outcome.  There will undoubtedly be worse teams than us, but there will be better teams than us too.    Mid table would be very acceptable again. 

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[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]I think we have moved on now from being happy with 17th place. City have a strong squad to take forward next season with RvW and at least 4-5 new PL quality players coming in during pre-season. I''d be happy with consolidating a mid-table finish again (between 8th and 13th), but we should be aiming at the upper end of that group. I think Watford and Hull will both struggle, and possibly Cardiff as well. Stoke and Sunderland may also struggle, but I think Southampton should survive. If Villa lose Benteke, and possibly Wiemann as well, they could also be in trouble. The key is to concentrate on our own strengths though and not worry about the others.[/quote]

I agree - this season i would have been happy with 17th (although not happy with the inevitable stress that would have accompanied it!).  Lots of people actually said the same thing at the start of the season but when it came to it and 17th looked like it could well be where we finished, lots of people were not at all happy. I suggest if we look like having a similar season, more fans will be even more unhappy and will be calling for the manager''s head.

I would be fine with top half and i think that is a realistic ambition. Sacking the manager in February when we''re say 14th, would be very stupid however, despite the number of fans who would be calling for it if that were the scenario.

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[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="a1canary"]

...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it,[/quote]

Yes, very stupid[/quote]

 

Purely and attention grabbing thread title of course... After all, as a certain person has oft repeated in the last 9 months,

"there are no easy games in this, the Barclays Premier League."

He''s a sponsor''s dream is our manager!

[/quote]Making assumptions at this early stage is pretty pointless.You need half a dozen games to get a feel of the strength of various teams and probably 12 games before making an educated guess at how the season is going to pan out.. Looking at Statto Index after 12 games it''s surprising how close it is to the final table. Liverpool and Spurs went up a bit and WBA came down a bit. (hardly unexpected). The bottom half dozen are already in place.

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[quote user="ricardo"][quote user="a1canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="a1canary"]

...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it,[/quote]

Yes, very stupid

[/quote]

 

Purely and attention grabbing thread title of course... After all, as a certain person has oft repeated in the last 9 months,

"there are no easy games in this, the Barclays Premier League."

He''s a sponsor''s dream is our manager!

[/quote]

Making assumptions at this early stage is pretty pointless.

You need half a dozen games to get a feel of the strength of various teams and probably 12 games before making an educated guess at how the season is going to pan out.. Looking at Statto Index after 12 games it''s surprising how close it is to the final table. Liverpool and Spurs went up a bit and WBA came down a bit. (hardly unexpected). The bottom half dozen are already in place.
[/quote]

Like i said, the title was just a headline grabber. If you think that is my assumption, that i think it will be easy, you are wrong, i don''t. I was though expressing a view that the way clubs are run has a big influence on the way they peform, and i think (not assume) there are a number of candidates next year for clubs that could make poor decisions that affect their performance in the league. And that as a result, since our club is run brilliantly, for now at least, by Messrs McNally and co, this could give us an advantage.

Is that ok for you? You or Snowy don''t have to agree, like i say, it''s a view, not an assumption.

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This is a bit of fun rather than educated, I agree that we should be looking ahead with rather more confidence this time. Not sure I agree on Sunderland though- my feeling is that DiCanio will not last long and they will be looking for a new man so we can''t rely on him being a disruptive force for the entire season. As to Southampton I am not yet convinced- they had some good early results under the new guy but slipped down again and could have got dragged in had Swansea not beaten Wigan. None of  Cardiff, Hull or Leicester/Palace seem terrifying. If Fulham lose Berbatov they could also struggle. The bottom half all just looks a little less strong next time around as I stand here now.

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[quote user="a1canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="a1canary"][quote user="ricardo"][quote user="a1canary"]

...ok, that''s a stupid thing to say on the face of it,[/quote]

Yes, very stupid[/quote]

 

Purely and attention grabbing thread title of course... After all, as a certain person has oft repeated in the last 9 months,

"there are no easy games in this, the Barclays Premier League."

He''s a sponsor''s dream is our manager!

[/quote]Making assumptions at this early stage is pretty pointless.You need half a dozen games to get a feel of the strength of various teams and probably 12 games before making an educated guess at how the season is going to pan out.. Looking at Statto Index after 12 games it''s surprising how close it is to the final table. Liverpool and Spurs went up a bit and WBA came down a bit. (hardly unexpected). The bottom half dozen are already in place.[/quote]

Like i said, the title was just a headline grabber. If you think that is my assumption, that i think it will be easy, you are wrong, i don''t. I was though expressing a view that the way clubs are run has a big influence on the way they peform, and i think (not assume) there are a number of candidates next year for clubs that could make poor decisions that affect their performance in the league. And that as a result, since our club is run brilliantly, for now at least, by Messrs McNally and co, this could give us an advantage.

Is that ok for you? You or Snowy don''t have to agree, like i say, it''s a view, not an assumption.

[/quote]A fair enough comment but even in the best run clubs things can quickly turn to dust.According to "Jeff on Canary Call" all is not well between management and directors so stability is not something we should rely on. So many things crop up unexpectedly in football (last year the Lambert saga) that it is more than a little presumptuous to say which teams will or will not be in turmoil over the next few months. Stoke''s change of direction may or may not adversely affect them. Trouble at Southampton could bubble up again. Newcastle and Fulham managers may come under pressure. The Sunderland / De Canio saga already seems a bit fraught, etc etc.Too many known unknowns let alone the unknown ones.Better to await a few concrete results before laying any cards on the table.

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It will boil down to how much money the promoted teams have to spend. If sugar daddies throw £30 million on transfers, the league could be very tight again.

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[quote/] Add WBA to the list too.

I still think their manager could end up back at Chelsea as Mourinho''s assistant and they will lose a big part of their team if Lukaku doesn''t return on loan next season.[quote/]

agree with this fully. Odemwingie is surely on his way out too, so their strike force will need a revamp!

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[quote user="Yelloow Since 72"]I think we have moved on now from being happy with 17th place. City have a strong squad to take forward next season with RvW and at least 4-5 new PL quality players coming in during pre-season. I''d be happy with consolidating a mid-table finish again (between 8th and 13th), but we should be aiming at the upper end of that group. I think Watford and Hull will both struggle, and possibly Cardiff as well. Stoke and Sunderland may also struggle, but I think Southampton should survive. If Villa lose Benteke, and possibly Wiemann as well, they could also be in trouble. The key is to concentrate on our own strengths though and not worry about the others.[/quote]

Strong rumours here in the midlands that Wiemann is on his way here!!!!

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[quote user="Evesham Canary"] Strong rumours here in the midlands that Wiemann is on his way here!!!![/quote]

 

Whilst I will await developments on whether there is any traction on this, it would provide the perfect wind up opportunity to the Villa fans![:P]

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[quote user="SpanishCanary"][quote/] Add WBA to the list too.

I still think their manager could end up back at Chelsea as Mourinho''s assistant and they will lose a big part of their team if Lukaku doesn''t return on loan next season.[quote/]

agree with this fully. Odemwingie is surely on his way out too, so their strike force will need a revamp![/quote]

Why would Clarke go back as number two? That would be like getting a job as a restuarant manager doing well then the following year going back to work at McDonald''s

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[quote user="refjezdavies"]Why would Clarke go back as number two? That would be like getting a job as a restuarant manager doing well then the following year going back to work at McDonald''s[/quote]Agree with this. Also Clarke''s relationship with Mourinho means that if Lukaku is loaned out in the premiership again then there is only one club he will go to and that''s WBA. It also puts them in pole position to borrow other Chelsea players if Lukaku is not loaned out or goes abroad

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