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C.Martin set to sign for Derby

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http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/12691/8699836/Transfer-News-Derby-set-to-sign-Chris-Martin-from-Norwich-permanently

Sounds like the deal is all but done! Good move for Chrissy, and I can just walk to the other side of town and watch him play next season if I want haha!

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Don''t know if it''s because he''s one of ours, but even up to now I''d still hoped it would happen for him here. Fantastic finisher and scored some important goals for us.

Good luck SCM.

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I always thought he could have been the next teddy sheringham same amount of pace ,Maybe clough jnr  who also played the same role /

 best in the hole behind a striker can get the best out of him !

but there is only one man who can make that happen and that''s chris himself

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http://www.dcfcfans.co.uk/forum/6-transfer-talk/

Had a look on their fans forum. There is actually quite a split between who do and who don''t rate him. The majority sides with the ones that don''t! Reads to me that they''d prefer James Vaughan haha!

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Thanks for the goals in league 1, just another victim of our rapid ascent of the leagues. When a player has done well for us, like him and more recently Lappin, it always makes me happy to see them get a solid move to a good team.

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Never got given a fair chance to prove himself at this level so we can never say for certain that he wasn''t good enough.Was arguably best suited to play in Wes'' position, but didn''t have as much craft to move Wes out (even if he has better finishing).Good luck at Derby, shame that''s another one of our most promising youngsters who''s grown up and not really fulfilled their potential...

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Good luck Chrissy, thanks for the memories.

Who knows, perhaps now that he doesn''t have the constant criticism of some ''supporters'' hanging around his neck he may be able to take his game on closer to where many thought it could be.

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]Yes never delivered on his early promise

Didn''t he start the first 4 or 5 PL games under Lambett? In which case that''s all the chance you''re going to get in the modern game at the top level.[/quote]Jackson got a lot more chances than that and did jack all with them...

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I can''t remember Jackson getting a start in the PL, never mind 4 or 5 games in a row.  He''s been brought on as a sub on isolated occasions (normally in games where we have gone behind late on this season), and also failed to make a real impact in the PL. 

 

I don''t think Jackson will ever establish himself as a first choice team member while we''re in the Prem.

 

Both of them are examples of the fact that a player gets a very limited chance to prove himself at the top level. 

 

Kei is another example - despite scoring a couple of goals (really) and many fans wanting to sign him permanently (including me) the club has decided not to sign him.

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]I can''t remember Jackson getting a start in the PL, never mind 4 or 5 games in a row. [/quote]Jackson started games against QPR (x2), WBA, Bolton, Swansea, Man Utd, Wigan, Wolves, Arsenal and Villa last season.And against QPR, Spurs, West Ham, Liverpool, and Newcastle this seasonYou''re right in saying he hasn''t really had many games in a row and has been used more as an impact player, but the 15 starts in 35 total apps is a lot more chances in the prem than Chris Martin''s 4 starts in 5 total apps... [quote]Both of them are examples of the fact that a player gets a very limited chance to prove himself at the top level.[/quote]I''m sorry, but 35 games is more than enough for a player to demonstrate if they are good enough for this level, even if half of them have been sub appearances. Jackson was given the chance and did nothing with it - Martin didn''t get that chance...[quote]Kei is another example - despite scoring a couple of goals (really) and many fans wanting to sign him permanently (including me) the club has decided not to sign him.[/quote]Because just like Jackson, he doesn''t score enough or look dangerous enough at this level to justify the purchase. Both are examples of hard working players with a good attitude that are simply let down by their quality in relation to the league. It''s not a slight on either of them, but neither of them are going to take the club forwards either.

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I''d forgotten how many starts Jackson had last season, although of course Lambert used to change things around a lot more.

 

The way I see it, if you get a set of starts together in the PL, that''s your chance to make the shirt your own.  Martin had that chance under Lambert at the start of last season and failed to take it.  Jackson also had the chance under Lambert and did enough to persuade the manager to use him intermittently but clearly Holt and Morison were ahead of him as strikers under Lambert, although he did benefit from the way Lambert rotated the squad.  But Jackson failed to do enough to get established as a first choice, only as a squad member.

 

Once you''re out of the team you need to do enough in training to keep yourself in contention if/when an opening comes in the first team.  This is the part we don''t see as fans (we do hear rumours about attitude etc).  For Chris Martin, he never got back in the team last season (despite Lambert rotating the squad and of course Lambert knew him from previous seasons).  He had another chance last summer in pre-season when the new manager came in, but it was decided to send him out on loan instead.  That was his last chance.

 

Jackson this year has done enough to convince the manager he is a useful squad member but no more.

 

You may feel CM could have done better at Prem level, but my point is that in the Prem, players get very limited chances.  CM started last season as first choice for us but didn''t take that chance, and despite Lambert''s rotation policy that was it for the season.  He had a last chance to put himself in contention when there was a change of manager but ended up being loaned out.  He had his chances but didn''t take them.

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[quote user="Its Character Forming"]Once you''re out of the team you need to do enough in training to keep yourself in contention if/when an opening comes in the first team.  This is the part we don''t see as fans (we do hear rumours about attitude etc).  For Chris Martin, he never got back in the team last season (despite Lambert rotating the squad and of course Lambert knew him from previous seasons).[/quote]Really, really hard to do that when you''ve been loaned out for the season...[quote]He had another chance last summer in pre-season when the new manager came in, but it was decided to send him out on loan instead.  That was his last chance[/quote]You mean like the chance Vaughan was given, where he looked our best striker in pre-season and then got loaned out for the season instead...Or maybe like the chance Becchio has been given under Hughton...Clearly your idea of a chance and mine are VERY different!

[quote]my point is that in the Prem, players get very limited chances.[/quote]

Which is exactly the point I was making. Jackson has had close to 10 times the chances that Martin has at this level and has failed to impress in the vast majority of them, Martin had a 4 game spell where he did little wrong even if he didn''t impress that much, but was sent on loan to get more experience as he maybe wasn''t quite ready, and was then dumped by Hughton this season because he''d rather play 10 defenders than actually play someone who might score...

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Because of injury when we were promoted from League One Chrissie has never had a full season in the Championship.

This move will give him that opportunity that you have said that he has not had.

Let''s hope he makes the most of it.

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Another player lost on a free - can''t help but feel for all the years of experience we gave him, we should have got some money out of this one

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Whatever the rights and wrongs of Chris Martin''s career at Norwich, one thing is indisputable.

 

His goals and his performances were a key part of our promotion from League 1 and of the start of the Lambert period. It is arguable whether his goals got us promoted but they certainly got us the Championship.

 

He was a hero of that team and like others who have moved on like Darrel Russell, he deserves our thanks and respect for getting us on the way to where we are today.

 

I think we should ignore the might have beens and the maybes. For one season he was a top player and for that season and for where that season led us, he must always have a place of honour at Carrow Road.

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I think the lack of chances that Vaughan and Becchio have had support the point I''m making about Martin.

 

For Chris Martin his last chance (having failed to take his best chance under Lambert) was when a new manager came in last summer to impress him enough in pre-season training to get a squad place.  Obviously he didn''t do enough hence being loaned out, coming back, then being sent out on loan again and now sold.  In the Prem you don''t just walk into the first team, you need to do enough to persuade the manager to let you play, which Martin has obviously failed to do with Hughton.  You may feel he should have had more of a chance but as the manager makes that decision based on what the players do in training, neither you nor I saw him in training so can''t say why.  Like it or not that''s all the chance he had, and that''s the way it is at the top level of football.

 

As for Vaughan it was a surprise to many of us when he was loaned out - as you say, he looked good in pre-season, but again didn''t do enough to persuade the manager to even keep him in the squad.  Ditto Becchio has had just what one start, and I only saw highlights of that game so couldn''t really judge his performance, and he failed to get ahead of Kei in the pecking order.

 

Personally I think both Vaughan and Becchio could complain more than Martin about not being given a decent chance.  Martin''s best chance was when he started the PL campaign under Lambert.  Given that Lambert had been Martin''s manager for two seasons at that point, when he dropped Martin and  never really tried him again, he obviously felt he''d seen enough not to keep playing Martin in the Prem.  And that''s as good a chance as you can expect in the Prem really, better than the chances Vaughan/Becchio have had so far.  It''s not good enough when you do get your chance to do "little wrong even if he didn''t impress that much".

 

As for Jackson, he did enough to persuade Lambert to use him as a squad player in the Prem, although generally behind Holt/Morison in the pecking order.  Partly I think this might have been because of his style of play, i.e. he puts himself about and is reasonably quick so a better overall help to the team.  Could Martin have contributed more ?  Well, Lambert obviously decided not, and Hughton came to the same conclusion.  This year under Hughton, Jackson has had a few starts, and dropped down the pecking order, so most of us expect him to be transferred this summer too, if we stay up.  You can say that Jackson has had more of a chance than Martin over the two seasons, but my point is that Jackson earned that by doing enough (in training and on the pitch) to persuade the managers to give him more playing time.

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[quote user="Indy_Bones"]Never got given a fair chance to prove himself at this level so we can never say for certain that he wasn''t good enough.

Was arguably best suited to play in Wes'' position, but didn''t have as much craft to move Wes out (even if he has better finishing).

Good luck at Derby, shame that''s another one of our most promising youngsters who''s grown up and not really fulfilled their potential...
[/quote]

How long do you give him before you decide he''s had his chance? Where do you draw the line?

 

Who are the other promising youngsters who haven''t really fulfilled their potential? Or are we talking about some of the very average (at best) prospects who were just overrated and never really that promising?

 

I''d say Chris Martin going on to be a regular player at Championship level is a pretty good result. How many of his colleagues from his youth team days are playing at that level?

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Funniest Chris Martin rumour was that Fergie wanted him at United. Had he signed Chris Martin, it would have ranked worse than Djemba Djemba as his history of signings for United.

For me the signing of Chris Martin for Derby represents what I''ve heard a few Derby fans say lately. The club are standing still under Nigel Clough. Chris won''t score enough to get them in the play-offs. He''s just a player who might nick you the odd goal, try hard at the start but then lose his place through lack of effort.

League 1 player all day long for me.

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[quote user="GJP"]How long do you give him before you decide he''s had his chance? Where do you draw the line?[/quote]A fair question GJP and not one you can really give any sort of definitive answer on.With some players it''s blindingly obvious that they''re not good enough in a very short space of time (anyone remember the shambles that was Ali Dia?), others have to be given longer and a fair run in the team to truly assess them however, and I personally don''t think 4 starts was enough to do that for Martin.If he''d had the same chances as Jackson has and still wasn''t pulling up any trees, then fair enough we could have said that he was probably Championship level at best (which is exactly how I feel about Jackson) and simply moved on, but without that, it''s premature to simply write him off or claim that he didn''t do enough to impress the manager (much like apparently Tierney, Fox and Becchio haven''t...), especially when it''s very unclear exactly what the manager is looking for!Let''s face it, if Vaughan wasn''t given the time of day by Hughton despite his pre-season form, then what chance did Martin really have?

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[quote user="Row D Seat 7"]Funniest Chris Martin rumour was that Fergie wanted him at United. Had he signed Chris Martin, it would have ranked worse than Djemba Djemba as his history of signings for United. .[/quote]

 

I''d forgotten that one, there was a time when we were seriously worried they''d poach him from us. 

 

I agree with the comments that he did contribute a lot for us in L1 to be fair, and an important squad player in the Champ.  Grateful to him for his contribution.

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I think he has been given a chance whilst out on loan, and not really shown anything to suggest he''s good enough for the prem. The only Derby fan I know thinks he is a terrible signing based on only 2 goals in 13 and "not being able to control a ball".

Did us a job when we needed him to, had limited chances since League 1, but that perhaps suggests he just isn''t good enough. I think he''d make a decent squad player in the championship, which is probably what he''ll be at Derby.

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When you get to this level in football you need to give everything. It can''t be half-hearted. We are all hearing input from those that worked for Sir Alex Ferguson as to what his requirements were of those that played for him. If you didn''t toe the line on his requirements you were either out or sat down. It didn''t matter who the player was, superstar or not.

If you have talent ( and in my opinion, Chris Martin did ) then you can get away with less than 100% commitment at a lower level. That does not cut it, however, when you have to face top level players who are prepared to give 100%. Climbing the ladder in sports is like climbing the ladder in life, there are many who are blessed with the opportunity of getting their foot in the door but want to sneak out the window because they think they can. 

 

Now he has a fresh opportunity at a good club and a decent level. I hope he takes it.

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