Site for a new stadium?

[nutty nigel 7,535]

I could argue a case just as well for a pressing need to invest every penny we can in the team to maintain, let alone improve, our premier league status. Then someone has to make a choice....

 

 

[JF 694]

If we were to ever build a new stadium would the land that the club already own behind the ground, car park/coach park be big enough to build it there on site?

[GMF 744]

Hi Nutty

At what point does "the need to spend every penny on the team" give way to extending the ground capacity, which is clearly currently inadequate (just ask members how difficult it is to get tickets to most games) either through the use of premiership monies and / or further borrowing?

[nutty nigel 7,535]

[quote user="GMF"]Hi Nutty At what point does "the need to spend every penny on the team" give way to extending the ground capacity, which is clearly currently inadequate (just ask members how difficult it is to get tickets to most games) either through the use of premiership monies and / or further borrowing?[/quote]

 

Good question! I do understand the need to increase capacity but I think the associated risks are huge. I don''t think it''s an either or to finance it because even if it''s financed by new debt that debt will have to be paid through income. The idea that it pays for itself comes a lot further down the line if at all.

 

If we build a new stand we would have to accept one season of reduced capacity so it would impact our income immediately. It''s difficult enough competing with clubs backed by billionaires and would be even harder if we reduced our income.

 

So when is it worth taking the risk of increasing our chances of relegation? It''s a tough call to make. But if FFP seriously came in then it may be worth taking the risk. Because we would be competing on a level playing field where even with reduced capacity there would be premier league clubs with less income than us.

 

We could go for it now and take the gamble. But the worst scenario would be we were relegated in the season where we had reduced capacity. I would hate that. I''m loving the atmosphere at games again now. It''s too soon to go back to where we were in 2005/9.

 

 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="GMF"]Hi Nutty At what point does "the need to spend every penny on the team" give way to extending the ground capacity, which is clearly currently inadequate (just ask members how difficult it is to get tickets to most games) either through the use of premiership monies and / or further borrowing?[/quote]

 

Good question! I do understand the need to increase capacity but I think the associated risks are huge. I don''t think it''s an either or to finance it because even if it''s financed by new debt that debt will have to be paid through income. The idea that it pays for itself comes a lot further down the line if at all.

 

If we build a new stand we would have to accept one season of reduced capacity so it would impact our income immediately. It''s difficult enough competing with clubs backed by billionaires and would be even harder if we reduced our income.

 

So when is it worth taking the risk of increasing our chances of relegation? It''s a tough call to make. But if FFP seriously came in then it may be worth taking the risk. Because we would be competing on a level playing field where even with reduced capacity there would be premier league clubs with less income than us.

 

We could go for it now and take the gamble. But the worst scenario would be we were relegated in the season where we had reduced capacity. I would hate that. I''m loving the atmosphere at games again now. It''s too soon to go back to where we were in 2005/9.

 

 

[/quote]Those are also reasons as to why a new stadium is worth considering rather than expand CR.

[kingsway 94]

Its not a done deal that the first major build to increase capacity would be the City stand. I have heard the board have considered putting an upper tier on the Jarold stand first and this wouldn''t require the capacity to drop either cause the lower tier could continue to be used. This route is in my opinion the best way forward because of no disruption to present capacity and we''d get the overall capacity to 30-32,000. If we regularly filled Carrow Road with 30,000+ crowds (which would be very likely if stayed in the top flight) then a few years down the line the City stand could be done!

 

Tom Cavendish - It was well documented in the local press 2+ years ago that the current board investigated the possibilities of both expanding Carrow Road or moving to a new stadium and they worked out that the location of Carrow Road is ideal, something that should be cherished and the ground can be expanded to as much as 40,000 if needs be so this option is far far better than moving to another location which wouldn''t be as good logically as Carrow Road. Basically old boy your banging on about something that is very old hat, and therefore very unlikely to happen.

 

Anyone know if any work has started on the proposed temporary stand in front of the Hotel?

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="kingsway"]

Anyone know if any work has started on the proposed temporary stand in front of the Hotel?

[/quote]

This question was asked on another thread a couple of weeks ago and i went and looked for myself and absolutely nothing has happened.

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="kingsway"]

Its not a done deal that the first major build to increase capacity would be the City stand. I have heard the board have considered putting an upper tier on the Jarold stand first and this wouldn''t require the capacity to drop either cause the lower tier could continue to be used. This route is in my opinion the best way forward because of no disruption to present capacity and we''d get the overall capacity to 30-32,000. If we regularly filled Carrow Road with 30,000+ crowds (which would be very likely if stayed in the top flight) then a few years down the line the City stand could be done!

 

Tom Cavendish - It was well documented in the local press 2+ years ago that the current board investigated the possibilities of both expanding Carrow Road or moving to a new stadium and they worked out that the location of Carrow Road is ideal, something that should be cherished and the ground can be expanded to as much as 40,000 if needs be so this option is far far better than moving to another location which wouldn''t be as good logically as Carrow Road. Basically old boy your banging on about something that is very old hat, and therefore very unlikely to happen.

 

Anyone know if any work has started on the proposed temporary stand in front of the Hotel?

[/quote]

 

There is another argument for doing it that way. Do the City Stand first and the 4,000 or so fans there (presumably mainly season ticket holders) have to be relocated somewhere when there isn''t anywhere to relocate them. A massive loss of revenue.

However if the club does The Jarrold first and uses the extra 4,000 or so extra seats there for casual sales rather than for season tickets, then the eventual overspill from the City stand could be accommodated there. Once the City standers went back then the new Jarrold seats could be used for casual or season ticlet sales, or a mixture.

The problem is that (until you did the City as well, which you might not need to) you would have an absurd-looking stadium, with one gigantic stand facing a Southern League-size stand on the other side. Also I assume the City Stand is in need to renovation anyway, given its age, and it would make sense from that perspective to do it first.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="kingsway"]

 I have heard the board have considered putting an upper tier on the Jarold stand first and this wouldn''t require the capacity to drop either cause the lower tier could continue to be used..[/quote]

Rather surprised that there would be no disruption but if that is the case surely the same applies to The City Stand. Can you expand on the " I have heard" please Kingsway ?

[kingsway 94]

If the timescale of a Jarold upper tier was planned out (which big building projects are anyway) properly then it I think it would be possible to do it without any games having to be played with the capacity of the Jarold stand effected!

 

"I have heard" is nothing concrete because I don''t believe hardly anyone involved at Carrow Road, including members of staff know what is being planned exactly but I was told by someone that a Board member indicated to them that the Jarold stand expansion  may be the best option to go with first!

 

Would the ground look silly with a two tiered Jarold stand opposite the current way too small City stand?

Possibly but this would be better than the capacity of the ground being cut to about 22-23,000 if the City stand was rebuilt first! 

[ricardo 7,395]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="nutty nigel"]

[quote user="GMF"]Hi Nutty At what point does "the need to spend every penny on the team" give way to extending the ground capacity, which is clearly currently inadequate (just ask members how difficult it is to get tickets to most games) either through the use of premiership monies and / or further borrowing?[/quote]

 

Good question! I do understand the need to increase capacity but I think the associated risks are huge. I don''t think it''s an either or to finance it because even if it''s financed by new debt that debt will have to be paid through income. The idea that it pays for itself comes a lot further down the line if at all.

 

If we build a new stand we would have to accept one season of reduced capacity so it would impact our income immediately. It''s difficult enough competing with clubs backed by billionaires and would be even harder if we reduced our income.

 

So when is it worth taking the risk of increasing our chances of relegation? It''s a tough call to make. But if FFP seriously came in then it may be worth taking the risk. Because we would be competing on a level playing field where even with reduced capacity there would be premier league clubs with less income than us.

 

We could go for it now and take the gamble. But the worst scenario would be we were relegated in the season where we had reduced capacity. I would hate that. I''m loving the atmosphere at games again now. It''s too soon to go back to where we were in 2005/9.

 

 

[/quote]Those are also reasons as to why a new stadium is worth considering rather than expand CR. [/quote]Sorry to inject a bit of realism but a new stadium won''t happen anytime in the next 25 years if not at all. Expansion of the present site is the only option and even that is problematic.

[Beetley Yellow 57]

[quote user="PurpleCanary"]

There is another argument for doing it that way. Do the City Stand first and the 4,000 or so fans there (presumably mainly season ticket holders) have to be relocated somewhere when there isn''t anywhere to relocate them. A massive loss of revenue.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, there are ways and means if some engineering thought is put

to it- Leicester Tigers RUFC managed it at Welford Road  [url]http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=731484&page=12[/url].

Whether (1) We could achieve the transition between new and old in the close

season and (2) whether we have sufficient space behind the City Stand on the

old Carrow Road to do similar are different questions all together.

 

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Dereham Tifoso"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

There is another argument for doing it that way. Do the City Stand first and the 4,000 or so fans there (presumably mainly season ticket holders) have to be relocated somewhere when there isn''t anywhere to relocate them. A massive loss of revenue.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, there are ways and means if some engineering thought is put to it- Leicester Tigers RUFC managed it at Welford Road  [url]http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=731484&page=12[/url]. Whether (1) We could achieve the transition between new and old in the close season and (2) whether we have sufficient space behind the City Stand on the old Carrow Road to do similar are different questions all together.

 

[/quote]

 

Fulham are doing something similar, effectively building a second tier behind and on top of the bottom tier, so the bottom tier can still be used in the meantime. But, as you indicate, there may well not be room behind the City Stand to do that. Which is presumbaly why Bowkett''s solution, though he admitted it was not ideal, was to knock down the City Stand and start from scratch. Taking up to 18 months, costing at least £20m, plus the loss of revenue, and the probem of where to try to house 4,000 City Standers.

[Beetley Yellow 57]

Ahh, fair enough, I didn''t know a full demo / rebuild had been commented on. Googling the Fulham scheme it seems a sensible solution too. Briefly looking at the available space behind the City Stand last I passed the ground, it isn''t a massive width. Assuming we own the old Carrow Road (and I''m not sure on this either?) we''d still need the full width for a Welford Rd / Fulham type of solution, then losing the benefit of the access road (... unless we build over it as per Old Trafford.... :) ).

Plus, no sign of any corner infill developments whatsoever when I attended a meeting at the ground the week-before-last. The new pitch looks good though :).

[Syteanric 1]

I am sure I read somewhere we can''t actually fit a 2nd tier on the jarrold....

A shame tbh but I would think the city stand and river end need an overhaul 1st

[ncfcstar 292]

[quote user="Dereham Tifoso"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

There is another argument for doing it that way. Do the City Stand first and the 4,000 or so fans there (presumably mainly season ticket holders) have to be relocated somewhere when there isn''t anywhere to relocate them. A massive loss of revenue.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, there are ways and means if some engineering thought is put

to it- Leicester Tigers RUFC managed it at Welford Road  [url]http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=731484&page=12[/url].

Whether (1) We could achieve the transition between new and old in the close

season and (2) whether we have sufficient space behind the City Stand on the

old Carrow Road to do similar are different questions all together.

 

[/quote]I used to live in Leicester, and the Tigers had a huge car park where the new stand currently stands so it was an easy solution for them.  Plus they are intending to move the pitch 90 degrees once other renovation/rebuild has taken place (or that was the original plan anyway) so the stand had to be built behind the one that did exist.

[Eastonpromise 0]

[quote user="Dereham Tifoso"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

There is another argument for doing it that way. Do the City Stand first and the 4,000 or so fans there (presumably mainly season ticket holders) have to be relocated somewhere when there isn''t anywhere to relocate them. A massive loss of revenue.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, there are ways and means if some engineering thought is put to it- Leicester Tigers RUFC managed it at Welford Road  [url]http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=731484&page=12[/url]. Whether (1) We could achieve the transition between new and old in the close season and (2) whether we have sufficient space behind the City Stand on the old Carrow Road to do similar are different questions all together.

 

[/quote]

I may be wrong but I am sure the club bought the road behind the City Stand for the purpose of expanding onto when they put a 2nd tier on the City Stand

[PurpleCanary 5,562]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"][quote user="Dereham Tifoso"][quote user="PurpleCanary"]

There is another argument for doing it that way. Do the City Stand first and the 4,000 or so fans there (presumably mainly season ticket holders) have to be relocated somewhere when there isn''t anywhere to relocate them. A massive loss of revenue.

[/quote]

Not necessarily, there are ways and means if some engineering thought is put to it- Leicester Tigers RUFC managed it at Welford Road  [url]http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=731484&page=12[/url]. Whether (1) We could achieve the transition between new and old in the close season and (2) whether we have sufficient space behind the City Stand on the old Carrow Road to do similar are different questions all together.

 

[/quote]

I may be wrong but I am sure the club bought the road behind the City Stand for the purpose of expanding onto when they put a 2nd tier on the City Stand

[/quote]

 

That may well be true, but that doesn''t necessarily mean there is enough building space there to do what Leicester Tigers and Fulham are doing, which is to build behind an existing stand to create a second tier. My suspicion is that there isn''t the room, and that you could only expand.the City Stand by knocking it down.

[vinyl collector 0]

The only real place if we ever built a new ground, would be the showground, but at this moment of time, we don''t need a new one and for at least 10 yrs, i can''t see us wanting one, surely spend the money on the team etc....

OTBC.

[TIL 1010 4,746]

[quote user="Eastonpromise"]I may be wrong but I am sure the club bought the road behind the City Stand for the purpose of expanding onto when they put a 2nd tier on the City Stand [/quote]

The Club do not own the road behind the City Stand.The double yellows and parking bays with the necessary signage still comes under the city authorities or i think you would find Mr McNasty would have a uniformed Jobsworth out there littering windscreens with tickets to gain the Club more revenue.

Don''t you just love those uniformed Jobsworths who creep up behind you as you park or sitting behind a desk checking your ID.[;)]

[tom cavendish 0]

I wouldn''t be surprised if Norwich Airport closes in the future and that site becomes housing and a new stadium.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

I can''t see Norwich being allowed to build a stadium anywhere that isn''t close to a rail station - or at least with good road access. This would rule out places like the Showground, airport or even County Hall.

[yellow blood 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]I wouldn''t be surprised if Norwich Airport closes in the future and that site becomes housing and a new stadium.
[/quote]

Given up on the U.E.A. then?

Where would the new airport be located, just out of interest?

[lake district canary 0]

Carrow Rd is the envy of many football clubs.   Those who work in an environment where ''change'' is seen as ''progress'' need to learn that this is not always the case.  Some things are best left just as they are.    We have a great football ground, great atmosphere, ideally situated near the city, railway etc. and  with the capacity to improve and extend.

 

 

 

There''s an old fashioned saying, but it still rings true...............................

 

 

 

IF IT AIN''T BROKE,  DON''T FIX IT!!

 

 

 

 

 

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="yellow blood"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]I wouldn''t be surprised if Norwich Airport closes in the future and that site becomes housing and a new stadium.[/quote]

Given up on the U.E.A. then?

Where would the new airport be located, just out of interest?

[/quote]Stansted.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I can''t see Norwich being allowed to build a stadium anywhere that isn''t close to a rail station - or at least with good road access. This would rule out places like the Showground, airport or even County Hall.[/quote]A lot of people park at County Hall anyway and it isn''t far from the railway station. The airport site already has a park and ride scheme in place and will likely be linked by the planned NDR.The showground is just off the A47 so less traffic going into the city centre.

[Herman 9,765]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I can''t see Norwich being allowed to build a stadium anywhere that isn''t close to a rail station - or at least with good road access. This would rule out places like the Showground, airport or even County Hall.[/quote]

A lot of people park at County Hall anyway and it isn''t far from the railway station.

The airport site already has a park and ride scheme in place and will likely be linked by the planned NDR.

The showground is just off the A47 so less traffic going into the city centre.

[/quote]

But CR is ideally located for all fans.It''s in easy walking/bus distance for all the locals.For the exiled fan it is near the train station/parking areas.And ditto for the away fans.Also the money that comes into the city is a massive benefit.If the stadium is on the outskirts of the city a higher proportion of fans would go straight home after the game,rather than lingering about,hitting the pubs and restaurants etc.

[Bethnal Yellow and Green 1,558]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="Bethnal Yellow and Green"]I can''t see Norwich being allowed to build a stadium anywhere that isn''t close to a rail station - or at least with good road access. This would rule out places like the Showground, airport or even County Hall.[/quote]

A lot of people park at County Hall anyway and it isn''t far from the railway station.

The airport site already has a park and ride scheme in place and will likely be linked by the planned NDR.

The showground is just off the A47 so less traffic going into the city centre.

[/quote]

County Hall is the only one that would ever be approved on access issues. Airport and Showground too far from a station and no possible way to link to a station.

 

Anyway - no point discussing airport, showground or County Hall as those bits of land would never become available at a price Norwich could afford (if ever). Also, Norwich aren''t going to move stadium anytime soon.

[yellow blood 0]

[quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="yellow blood"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]I wouldn''t be surprised if Norwich Airport closes in the future and that site becomes housing and a new stadium.
[/quote]

Given up on the U.E.A. then?

Where would the new airport be located, just out of interest?

[/quote]

Stansted.
[/quote]

Haha! So all regional airports will move to London then? I thought you were cracked before but I''m now certain of it.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="yellow blood"][quote user="tom cavendish"][quote user="yellow blood"]

[quote user="tom cavendish"]I wouldn''t be surprised if Norwich Airport closes in the future and that site becomes housing and a new stadium.[/quote]

Given up on the U.E.A. then?

Where would the new airport be located, just out of interest?

[/quote]Stansted.[/quote]

Haha! So all regional airports will move to London then? I thought you were cracked before but I''m now certain of it.

[/quote]I didn''t say that. However, if you check the accounts of Norwich Airport you will see that it keeps making massive losses. A lot of local people go to Stansted because it is cheaper and has a far greater number of flight options. You have to wonder how long Norwich Airport can keep making losses for.