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Jak G

Defenders, we need defenders!

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Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.

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[quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]Try telling that to Tony Pulis.

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Sorry did you say you worry about Barnetts lack of pace? This guy ran like a whippet before his injury....certainly quicker than Ward and Whitbread!

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Barnett is not slow, I think he is our best centre half by some distance. There will definitely be at least one more CB added and I would expect a right back as well...who they will be I have no idea.

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[quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]I agree to a certain extent, the obsession with ''hunger'' from some is getting a little annoying. However looking at Dann and Johnson, who would both be great signings, is interesting as both had no Premier League experience until they signed for Birmingham. Also look at Jagielka at Everton who made the step up. For me the number one targer at CB would be Matt Mills.

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[quote user="Largey"]Sorry did you say you worry about Barnetts lack of pace? This guy ran like a whippet before his injury....certainly quicker than Ward and Whitbread![/quote]

Took the words out of my mouth. The only defender with pace we have is Barnett! I do agree that we need at least one and preferably two other centre halves though. I think the Richie De Laet links make a lot of sense because he could act as a fourth option at centre half plus a second option at right back, which would appeal to Lambert.

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I did forget to say Barnett is undoubtedly still our best defender, I wouldn''t be worried about him starting again next season, but compared to some of the players he''s going to be facing I would definitely like to see the position strengthened.

Also must agree with the point made about Dann and Johnson not having any prem experience. Dann went from league 1 to Premiership in 3 seasons so it undoubtedly can be done.

Richie De Laet would be an ideal signing for me. Reasonably cheap young and can play across the back four. That along with a marquee defensive signing would be absolutely perfect. Perhaps someone from the continent?

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I think our starting back 5 next year will be...

Ruddy

Tierney, Barnett, _________, Martin.

 

Lambert is more than happy to axe players to the sub bench if they are not up to it(look at drury) Well maybe if we have a better choice to play there. None of this ''they got us here give them a chance''.

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[quote user="I am a Banana"]

I think our starting back 5 next year will be...

Ruddy

Tierney, Barnett, _________, Martin.

 

Lambert is more than happy to axe players to the sub bench if they are not up to it(look at drury) Well maybe if we have a better choice to play there. None of this ''they got us here give them a chance''.

[/quote]

I''d like to think we won''t be experimenting with Martin at LB and Tierney at RB

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Saw Lambert in Morrisons just after lunch, he was walking along shaking his bowed head and I''m sure he was muttering; "Defenders, defenders, how could I have forgot about the defenders?".

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Barnett is pretty rapid for a centre half and probably the best overall IMO of three we currently have.  If we can get another one in - peferably with prem experience and adequate pace - we should be OK in this area as Tierney can also play CB if it came to it. If Barnett had stayed fit I think we''d have conceded far fewer this season.  RB/LB need cover although the likes of Korey and Lappin I''m sure will be retained as squad players as they can provide cover for a number of roles including the full backs. (Aaron Lennon or Walcott on Lappin would be entertaining!)

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[quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]Pile of ill thought out nonsense. Mind you anyone who talks of an ''offensive line'' must imagine football is some sort of regimented choreographed idiocy as played on the other side of the pond. Amy anyone who talks of ''Barnett and his lack of pace'' appears not to have a clue.Perhaps this person could explain why Ward and Barnett will not be up to it because they were ''discarded'' yet by that measure any ''expereinced'' player we sign has also been discarded.Or why he or she had to conjure up some imaginary ''fear'' - one that has us having a ''fear of signing big name signings''. Always a good tactic. Make up something then reply to that rather what is true. The point about hungry players is not as suggested, an either one or the other choice. Of course the incoming players will have to have the ability/skill etc but out of those, my understanding is that within that group it will be those that show the potential drive and hunger that will be brought aboard. And when it''s defenders that are signed, known about or simply speculated about then I''m sure fans will be talking about them and I''m sure those players will be up to the task, big name or notPerhaps the OP could drop a line to Lambert as he/she could be right, and maybe it hasn''t occured to Lambert or anyone at the club that  "if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world"  - we would look silly if they didn''t find this out until Xmas or later.

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[quote user="Jak G"]I did forget to say Barnett is undoubtedly still our best defender, I wouldn''t be worried about him starting again next season, but compared to some of the players he''s going to be facing I would definitely like to see the position strengthened. Also must agree with the point made about Dann and Johnson not having any prem experience. Dann went from league 1 to Premiership in 3 seasons so it undoubtedly can be done. Richie De Laet would be an ideal signing for me. Reasonably cheap young and can play across the back four. That along with a marquee defensive signing would be absolutely perfect. Perhaps someone from the continent?[/quote]

A marquee-sized defender? You mean one who wears rent-a-tent sized shirts? :-)

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[quote user="Norfolk Mustard"]

[quote user="Jak G"]I did forget to say Barnett is undoubtedly still our best defender, I wouldn''t be worried about him starting again next season, but compared to some of the players he''s going to be facing I would definitely like to see the position strengthened. Also must agree with the point made about Dann and Johnson not having any prem experience. Dann went from league 1 to Premiership in 3 seasons so it undoubtedly can be done. Richie De Laet would be an ideal signing for me. Reasonably cheap young and can play across the back four. That along with a marquee defensive signing would be absolutely perfect. Perhaps someone from the continent?[/quote]

A marquee-sized defender? You mean one who wears rent-a-tent sized shirts? :-)

[/quote]We could sign Jason Scotland and put him at the back...other than that I''m struggling.If Barnett is slow then I suppose Usain Bolt is only moderately quick.

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]surely this is the pecking order for CB? 1- barnett 2- whitbread 3- ward[/quote]

I would hope so!  I really like Barnett and Whitbread is also good but I really do not rate Ward.  He seems to lack a bit of conviction when he is defending and doesn''t always look very strong.  In the air I don''t think he is great either.  He seems to position himself well but seems to get under the ball and not really clear it properly.  Having said that I have seen him put in a tremendous amount of last ditch blocks this season.  If Ward starts the season as a starter I will be really worried.

 

If there is one position where I would like a ''big name'' or at least someone with experience then it is a centre back because we need a leader there and we don''t really have one at the moment.  Having said that I can''t see us signing Roger Johnson or Scott Dann because I would presume they would go to bigger and more established Premier League clubs.  Upson on the other hand has a very, very slight chance of coming here because this is where he is from.  As someone else also said I would love Matt Mills from Reading here.

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[quote user="John"][quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]Try telling that to Tony Pulis.[/quote]Says the person who doesnt think Steve Morison isnt good enough!

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[quote user="CT"][quote user="John"][quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense. It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this). If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt. I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]

Try telling that to Tony Pulis.
[/quote]

Says the person who doesnt think Steve Morison isnt good enough!
[/quote]

Did you mean to say the person in question does think Morison is good enough?

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I agree we need more defenders but its only the start of June and in Lambert we trust!

If we sign the very over rated and dropping like a stone local lad Matthew Upson, I''ll be very disapointed because he wouldn''t be a step up from messrs Ward, Whitbread and Barnett!

Anyway I think our current defenders at their best could do it in the Premiership, are better than Blackpools but they will need help!

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[quote user="CT"][quote user="John"][quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]Try telling that to Tony Pulis.[/quote]Says the person who doesnt think Steve Morison isnt good enough![/quote][^o)]Literacy has clearly got the better of you yet again CT.As for my thread, notice i never said he "wasn''t good enough" with respect to performing for us next season; only on the basis of the statistics and genuine feedback from his performances the price tag seems ''very'' dubious when compared with that of Grahams, and former record breaking signings of ours. Nor does he seem likely to provide the dynamism provided by Holt that some seem to expect from him, on account of either his background or build, one is led to assume.I''m beginning to wonder why your reading of a title alone gives you license to jump to a conclusion CT? Skipping the content is bad practice.

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Still don''t understand why Ward seems to be the weak link in many peoples eyes. He gets criticised for not concentrating/switching off, not being strong enough and not winning things in the air.

 

Yet we''ve seen Zak Whitbread make costly mistakes leading to goals and losing important headers in key areas too. But for some reason he doesn''t get the same stick that Ward does.

 

But that''s often the way with Norwich fans, they get something in their heads about a player and they can''t see what''s really going on.

 

Ward was there for 39 of our 46 league games this season - he was a huge player for us. Zak and Barnett were only there for half a season each and now Ward is apparently meant to slip down the pecking order to 3rd or 4th choice centreback - even though he''s obviously been the managers first choice in that position.

 

I''m just pleased Norwich have got three defenders as good was Whitbread, Barnett and Ward.

 

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[quote user="GJP"]

Still don''t understand why Ward seems to be the weak link in many peoples eyes. He gets criticised for not concentrating/switching off, not being strong enough and not winning things in the air.

 

Yet we''ve seen Zak Whitbread make costly mistakes leading to goals and losing important headers in key areas too. But for some reason he doesn''t get the same stick that Ward does.

 

But that''s often the way with Norwich fans, they get something in their heads about a player and they can''t see what''s really going on.

 

Ward was there for 39 of our 46 league games this season - he was a huge player for us. Zak and Barnett were only there for half a season each and now Ward is apparently meant to slip down the pecking order to 3rd or 4th choice centreback - even though he''s obviously been the managers first choice in that position.

 

I''m just pleased Norwich have got three defenders as good was Whitbread, Barnett and Ward.

 

[/quote]

 

I think if Barnett didn''t get injured then we would have seen a lot less of Ward with Barnett and Whitbread as the first choice centre backs.  I like Whitbread but I don''t think he is that good.  He does make mistakes but I think he makes a lot less than Ward and I think he is just a little bit better than Ward in all departments.

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We certainly need defenders. Last season we conceded more than most teams in the top half of the table, and this season we have premiership attackers against us!

We have a good attacking style, but it does to leave the wings and defence with little cover.

If we sign Bradley Johnson, his tackling will provide some toughness to defending, but for all the back four, how will they cope with the pace of the Premiership?

We have been mentioned as being interested in La Laet of Manure, although so are Pompey. He is quick. Perhaps se shall make progress there, although I think that he normally plays at LB, where we already have Tierney and Drury.

The other question concerns the goalkeeping position. Ruddy improved during the season, and will improve more, but do we need an experienced keeper in case of injury? (Perhaps we could always get a loan!)

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[quote user="oTbC"]Barnett is pretty rapid for a centre half and probably the best overall IMO of three we currently have.  If we can get another one in - peferably with prem experience and adequate pace - we should be OK in this area as Tierney can also play CB if it came to it. If Barnett had stayed fit I think we''d have conceded far fewer this season.  RB/LB need cover although the likes of Korey and Lappin I''m sure will be retained as squad players as they can provide cover for a number of roles including the full backs. (Aaron Lennon or Walcott on Lappin would be entertaining!)[/quote]Oh dear! [:$]

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[quote user="mrs miggins"]surely this is the pecking order for CB?

1- barnett

2- whitbread

3- ward[/quote]

Not in my book... it would be the exact reverse of that!I am sure that you and many others would prefer a defense that just gives the opposition the ball to attack us again and again and again though because of their poor distribution???

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I think the reason we have gone for strikers first is simply that they tend to be in shorter supply than defenders, and therefore command higher prices. We haven''t got that much cash to spare compared to most Premier League clubs, so we don''t want to leave it to the end of the transfer window and get dragged into a bidding war for the few strikers that are left. Defenders, on the other hand, are more numerous and fetch lower prices, so there is less likely to be a desperate "auction" situation in August. Therefore we can leave them to be sorted out later.

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[quote user="City1st"][quote user="Jak G"]Unless I''ve missed something this board all seems pretty occupied with our offensive line, which is well and good and I must admit I am more then satisfied with our signings, I can help but think we really should be investing heavily in the defense.

It''s all well and good scoring goals but if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world (Blackpool a pefect example of this).

If we have a look especially at the CB''s we have it doesn''t make for good reading. Elliot Ward and Barnett both have minor prem experience and were discarded by West Ham and West Brom. I especially worry about Barnett and his lack of pace and can see him struggling. Behind them who do we have Whitbread with no prem experience and with less then a full season of games in the yellow and green shirt.

I do feel we should be looking at bringing in two CB''s maybe they don''t both have to be big money prem signing but atleast one should be around the level of a Dann or Roger Johnson or an Upson? Fans need to get over this fear of signing big name signings because their not ''hungry''. Inevitably it''s going to be experience and natural talent that keep us up not hunger.[/quote]Pile of ill thought out nonsense. Mind you anyone who talks of an ''offensive line'' must imagine football is some sort of regimented choreographed idiocy as played on the other side of the pond. Amy anyone who talks of ''Barnett and his lack of pace'' appears not to have a clue.Perhaps this person could explain why Ward and Barnett will not be up to it because they were ''discarded'' yet by that measure any ''expereinced'' player we sign has also been discarded.Or why he or she had to conjure up some imaginary ''fear'' - one that has us having a ''fear of signing big name signings''. Always a good tactic. Make up something then reply to that rather what is true. The point about hungry players is not as suggested, an either one or the other choice. Of course the incoming players will have to have the ability/skill etc but out of those, my understanding is that within that group it will be those that show the potential drive and hunger that will be brought aboard. And when it''s defenders that are signed, known about or simply speculated about then I''m sure fans will be talking about them and I''m sure those players will be up to the task, big name or notPerhaps the OP could drop a line to Lambert as he/she could be right, and maybe it hasn''t occured to Lambert or anyone at the club that  "if you can''t defend then your going to concede goals against the most clinical strikers in the world"  - we would look silly if they didn''t find this out until Xmas or later.

[/quote]

I understand what your saying City1st and perhaps my argument didn''t portray itself in the intended maner. Perhaps ''fear'' of big name signings was the wrong phrase when simply all I meant was that I have seen signings mooted on this message board only for them to be ignored due to a lack of supposed ''hunger'' when said player is clearly and experienced player.

Furthermore it seems that I was suggesting that Lambert didn''t understand we need defenders and he wasn''t looking for any. This was not what I was trying to confer as I have no doubt he will ultimately deliver some quality defensive signings and imagine he is spending as much time scouting defenders as he is any other part of the pitch (In Lambert We Trust)

Instead my point was aimed at this board as I felt people were concentrating solely on the strikers and midfielders we were signing and being linked with and I saw very little conversation on the defensive part of our team and who we should be aiming to sign.

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