Attendances at Carrow Road - a demographic study.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but I don’t recall ever seeing a definitive answer to this question.

Why are the crowds at Carrow Road so big compared to the “glory years”?

I remember playing Wimbledon in December  1992 in front of a crowd of 13000!

Even during the European run a year later our league gates were only around 14000-16000.So why 17 years on and two divisons lowers are we playing in front of gates twice the size?

I remember some 10 years ago or so,under Rioch or Hamilton the club making a big play on the fact that they needed gates of 16000 to break even –which we just about managed, so it’s something that’s happened over that period of time – but exactly when and why?

I can’t think that the population of Norwich/Norfolk has increased that much in this period, whilst people outside of Norfolk always say “there’s nothing else to do in Norfolk-so thy have to go to football!” – is there an element of truth in this?!

So the question really is “Where were you when we were good”?

[Henry 0]

Good point, to which i have no answer whatsoever.I first started going in the late 80''s as things started to go well. Could turn up on the day and easily get a decent seat in the lower Barclay. Moved away to Sussex and London for a few years in the mid 90''s and when i came back found it difficult to get tickets. Really have no idea why ... perhaps the money involved in football made the game more fashionable and more attractive to a wider range of people [:^)]

[William Darby 0]

Delia and clever marketing to bring more women to games

[Sing Up The South Stand 0]

I think it''s more marketing, largely down to Andrew Cullen.

[Dronny Canary 0]

Quite simply, given the overall performance of the club over the past 3 years in particular, the people of Norfolk have shown support and patience that is way beyond what you would get at just about any club in this country.  It just defies logic!  I do think that a lot of excellent stuff has gone on off the pitch in terms of the facilities and promotion of the club among the people of Norfolk.  It''s just a shame that in recent years it''s not been matched by enough excellent stuff on the pitch.  I think we''re all praying that at last we''ve turned a corner on and off the pitch and are at last moving in a direction that all that support deserves.

[Robert Ketts Yellow Army 15]

Nothing else to do in Norwich. Poor quality football represents the only entertainment in an isolated backwater. Sorry chaps, it''s a fact.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="Robert Ketts Yellow Army"]Nothing else to do in Norwich. Poor quality football represents the only entertainment in an isolated backwater. Sorry chaps, it''s a fact.[/quote]Troll score: 7.5/10Nice flourish with the "it''s a fact" bit which should guarantee you the bites you''re looking for.

[William Darby 0]

[quote]Nothing else to do in Norwich. Poor quality football represents the only entertainment in an isolated backwater. Sorry chaps, it''s a fact.[/quote]If it''s because there''s nothing else to do in Norwich. How do you account for the majority of fans live outside Norwich?

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,800]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but I don’t recall ever seeing a definitive answer to this question.

Why are the crowds at Carrow Road so big compared to the “glory years”?

I remember playing Wimbledon in December  1992 in front of a crowd of 13000!

Even during the European run a year later our league gates were only around 14000-16000.So why 17 years on and two divisons lowers are we playing in front of gates twice the size?

I remember some 10 years ago or so,under Rioch or Hamilton the club making a big play on the fact that they needed gates of 16000 to break even –which we just about managed, so it’s something that’s happened over that period of time – but exactly when and why?

I can’t think that the population of Norwich/Norfolk has increased that much in this period, whilst people outside of Norfolk always say “there’s nothing else to do in Norfolk-so thy have to go to football!” – is there an element of truth in this?!

So the question really is “Where were you when we were good”?

[/quote]

I should have pointed out the significance of this match. This win took us 7 points clear at the top of the premier league!, In front of a gate comparable to that of the Johnstones paint trophy 1st Round this season.

[William Darby 0]

More women & marketing, it really is that simple.

[Buncey 1]

Combination of things:- A lot more women go, and as such more families- More children go, and as you probably remember when we were all kids when you got hooked on football you wanted to go no matter the weather- Cheaper children tickets, all of the river end, the corner of the city stand, and even the barclay prices are very very good for children. I think you''d struggle to find a club as accommodating for children and to have such cheap season tickets. When I first started going it was a section in the old stand and although prices were cheap back then, relatively they are even better.

[Robert Ketts Yellow Army 15]

 

It is because, despite its faults and remote location, we are  deeply proud of where we hail from and we wear our support for Norwich like badges of honour.

[nutty nigel 7,618]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

I should have pointed out the significance of this match. This win took us 7 points clear at the top of the premier league!, In front of a gate comparable to that of the Johnstones paint trophy 1st Round this season.[/quote]

These are things that I have often wondered about too. The answers you are getting are far too simplistic. It''s not just the home support either. How does our away following compare? For instance 800 at Hartlepool and Yeovil for a Carling Cup game. Nearly 2000 at Brentford. I''m sure we never took that many on a regular basis and regardless of opposition in the early 90''s.

 

[The Fish Seller 0]

Perhaps people should have paid more attention to the word ''demographic'' in the title of this thread?The increase in attendance isn''t peculiar to Norwich during the period under discussion but has actually been enjoyed by most of the clubs in the football leagues. Plenty stats available on the internet, some of them even come from reliable sources.It''s not the ''Delia'' effect or the ''Cullen'' effect but a national trend most probably influenced most heavily by the switch to seated (family safe) stadia and the raising of the games profile predominantly due to the huge amounts of money poured into the game by Sky.[img]http://www.footballeconomy.com/images/attendance.jpg[/img]

Season	FA Premier	Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Total
2007/08	35,989	17,023	7,991	4,335	65,338
2006/07	34,361	18,222	7,485	4,134	64,202
2005/06	33,875	17,615	7,460	4,060	63,010
2004/05	33,890	17,410	7,740	4,500	63,540
2003/04	35,020	15,894	7,505	5,390	63,809
2002/03	35,462	15,436	7,045	4,459	62,402
2001/02	34,450	15,250	7,210	4,380	61,290
2000/01	32,906	14,335	6,340	3,915	57,496
1999/00	30,757	14,155	6,704	3,916	55,532
1998/99	30,586	13,665	7,510	3,813	55,574
1997/98	29,141	14,133	7,168	3,447	53,889
1996/97	28,463	12,514	5,768	3,350	50,095
1995/96	27,570	11,855	5,122	3,557	48,104
1994/95	24,294	10,882	5,511	3,384	44,071

[ncfcstar 292]

[quote user="Buckethead"]Perhaps people should have paid more attention to the word ''demographic'' in the title of this thread?The increase in attendance isn''t peculiar to Norwich during the period under discussion but has actually been enjoyed by most of the clubs in the football leagues. Plenty stats available on the internet, some of them even come from reliable sources.It''s not the ''Delia'' effect or the ''Cullen'' effect but a national trend most probably influenced most heavily by the switch to seated (family safe) stadia and the raising of the games profile predominantly due to the huge amounts of money poured into the game by Sky.[img]http://www.footballeconomy.com/images/attendance.jpg[/img]

Season	FA Premier	Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Total
2007/08	35,989	17,023	7,991	4,335	65,338
2006/07	34,361	18,222	7,485	4,134	64,202
2005/06	33,875	17,615	7,460	4,060	63,010
2004/05	33,890	17,410	7,740	4,500	63,540
2003/04	35,020	15,894	7,505	5,390	63,809
2002/03	35,462	15,436	7,045	4,459	62,402
2001/02	34,450	15,250	7,210	4,380	61,290
2000/01	32,906	14,335	6,340	3,915	57,496
1999/00	30,757	14,155	6,704	3,916	55,532
1998/99	30,586	13,665	7,510	3,813	55,574
1997/98	29,141	14,133	7,168	3,447	53,889
1996/97	28,463	12,514	5,768	3,350	50,095
1995/96	27,570	11,855	5,122	3,557	48,104
1994/95	24,294	10,882	5,511	3,384	44,071

[/quote]I was about to post something very similar, good work Buckethead.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Buckethead"]Perhaps people should have paid more attention to the word ''demographic'' in the title of this thread?

The increase in attendance isn''t peculiar to Norwich during the period under discussion but has actually been enjoyed by most of the clubs in the football leagues.

Plenty stats available on the internet, some of them even come from reliable sources.

It''s not the ''Delia'' effect or the ''Cullen'' effect but a national trend most probably influenced most heavily by the switch to seated (family safe) stadia and the raising of the games profile predominantly due to the huge amounts of money poured into the game by Sky.

[img]http://www.footballeconomy.com/images/attendance.jpg[/img]

Season	FA Premier	Div 1	Div 2	Div 3	Total
2007/08	35,989	17,023	7,991	4,335	65,338
2006/07	34,361	18,222	7,485	4,134	64,202
2005/06	33,875	17,615	7,460	4,060	63,010
2004/05	33,890	17,410	7,740	4,500	63,540
2003/04	35,020	15,894	7,505	5,390	63,809
2002/03	35,462	15,436	7,045	4,459	62,402
2001/02	34,450	15,250	7,210	4,380	61,290
2000/01	32,906	14,335	6,340	3,915	57,496
1999/00	30,757	14,155	6,704	3,916	55,532
1998/99	30,586	13,665	7,510	3,813	55,574
1997/98	29,141	14,133	7,168	3,447	53,889
1996/97	28,463	12,514	5,768	3,350	50,095
1995/96	27,570	11,855	5,122	3,557	48,104
1994/95	24,294	10,882	5,511	3,384	44,071

[/quote]

That does not tell the whole story because Norwich have nearly doubled their crowds and other clubs have not. The Norwich figures are included in the above figures so it makes the overall football average look better than it is. Take out the Norwich figures and the Norwich rise is massively better than the average.

The main difference for Norwich has been Delia and clever marketing to bring more families to games.

We even have an U21s price band (most clubs don''t) which helps to keep young fans at the club as they get older - rather than face adult prices as soon as they as 16.

Norwich have been brilliant at getting more people from the same household to go to games.

Don''t under estimate the ''Delia effect'' as her image certainly helps to attract more families.

The community department also does a great job at getting families more interested in the club.

 

 

[Shaun Tilly Lace 0]

Football is certainly enjoying something of a boom at the moment and has done for several seasons now - I think our "old friends" SKY TV have something to do with it with their pile it high, sell it to the masses approach to football. Anybody who has a satellite dish and SKY subscription would find it impossible to go through a day''s viewing without football being mentioned at least a thousand times somewhere on their channels and so viewers become almost brainwashed into watching the game. I think City have always been reasonably well supported too, partly down to our geographical isolation and partly because the club is held in great affection by most local people. Can you imagine the likes of Hull, Fulham, Burnley or Reading selling out games - even in the top flight - 20 years ago? They do now.

[tom cavendish 0]

[quote user="Pablopubicperm"]Can you imagine the likes of Hull, Fulham, Burnley or Reading selling out games - even in the top flight - 20 years ago? They do now.[/quote]

Because they are in top flight football.They were not selling out games in league 2!

[Bill 1,788]

A few misconceptions I''m afraidIf what his been suggested then why has the same effect been rolled out over other clubs ?''We take'' is not strictly true. The Yeovil game had only two City coaches. Virtually every supporter I spoke to were based somewhere in the South West. Games like Brentford away allow London based City fans to watch the team. Norfolk has a very high percentage of it''s population living and/or working out of the county.The reality, which will stick in the craw of many on here, is that the club has become very aggressive and skilled at marketing itself and especially it''s tickets. The huge variety of prices for tickets suggests not incompetence but a shrewd use of what is known as cross price elasticity, whereby the price is regularly adjusted to get the maximum return ie sell beer at a fiver and you sell ten pints, sell it at a quid and you sell fifty pints. The club is constantly adjusting their prices - look at the last home game.You only have to see how other club''s work to see how far much further advanced City are. You can sit in the Jarrold with your ticket purchased a day or so before and be sat next to a kid who has paid not much more for their season ticket. This may not generate normous revenue but it does add to what is know as the value of the product - who wants to sit in a half empty stadium ?All in all City fans are loyal. Football is something you ''inherit'' at an early age and stays with you for live. Fair play to the club for recognising that and a even greater respect to the supporters for responding so well.If there ain''t much to be proud of at the moment on the pitch there certainly is when I look round at Carrow Road at a few minutes to three on a saturday afternoon.You ''bootiful'' people !

[Downloads 35]

Norwich have invested heavily in the future supporters is another answer.

Kids and Students get in very cheap. When eligibility for the cheap tickets passes, you still have supporters wanting to attend even though their cheap price has gone.

I think the way Norwich has built up the fam base is great and and is to be commended. Its a shame i can''t speak to highly about the football.

[The Fish Seller 0]

[quote user="City1st"]If there ain''t much to be proud of at the moment on the pitch there certainly is when I look round at Carrow Road at a few minutes to three on a saturday afternoon.You ''bootiful'' people ![/quote]Very nicely put City1st!! [Y]Whatever spin might be put on it by the sellers or the purchasers there is no doubt in my mind that when this club does eventually change hands it will be the loyal 25,000 attendees and the equally as loyal travelling fans and exiles who will have played a huge part in securing the future of the club. We must stick out further than Gary Linekers toe in the penalty box on any list of clubs ''of interest'' to people looking to buy into football.

[kdncfc 0]

Much as it pains me to say it the marketing side of things has been just about the only thing that the Smith and Jones regime has managed to get right. If they had performed even half as well on the pitch we would have now been midtable in the prem with a 32k stadium and averaging around 30k a game.

[Bobert 0]

[quote user="Mr McNally''s Alter Ego"]Delia and clever marketing to bring more women to games
{quote]

Yes and dare I say it..... the improved catering, and general facilites such as toilets, the Gunn Club, stewarding, etc. Years ago I used to fear for my sons and their safety but I no longer fear for my grandsons two of whom will be at the match today with my wife..... and to think it is safe enough for them to make the journey from Ipswich on the train and walk to the ground. Unbelievable when you come to think about it.

[crowey66 0]

Football now is very fashoinable and players are''nt just players anymore.They are media stars and household names,simlpe as that.

[Mister Chops 7]

[quote user="City1st"]All in all City fans are loyal. Football is something you ''inherit'' at an early age and stays with you for live. Fair play to the club for recognising that and a even greater respect to the supporters for responding so well.If there ain''t much to be proud of at the moment on the pitch there certainly is when I look round at Carrow Road at a few minutes to three on a saturday afternoon.You ''bootiful'' people ![/quote]Well said!

[paul moy 235]

No doubt the popularity of football on Sky has been a major factor in growing people''s interest in football, but I also believe that the growth of all-seater stadia and pre-match experience(bars etc), with the added comfort for all, the major reduction of hooliganism, cheap prices for youngsters and OAPs also being contributing factors.

[norfolkchance1 0]

[quote user="GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary"]

I’m sure this has been discussed before but I don’t recall ever seeing a definitive answer to this question.

Why are the crowds at Carrow Road so big compared to the “glory years”?

I remember playing Wimbledon in December  1992 in front of a crowd of 13000!

Even during the European run a year later our league gates were only around 14000-16000.So why 17 years on and two divisons lowers are we playing in front of gates twice the size?

I remember some 10 years ago or so,under Rioch or Hamilton the club making a big play on the fact that they needed gates of 16000 to break even –which we just about managed, so it’s something that’s happened over that period of time – but exactly when and why?

I can’t think that the population of Norwich/Norfolk has increased that much in this period, whilst people outside of Norfolk always say “there’s nothing else to do in Norfolk-so thy have to go to football!” – is there an element of truth in this?!

So the question really is “Where were you when we were good”?

[/quote]

two words

nigel worthington

[corbs 0]

The Board and Delia must take credit for this overall. I would nevertheless take issue with the way pre-purchased season tickets are counted in the attendance figures. I would prefer only bums on seats to be counted. My own gut feeling is that the hard core base remains fairly modest, but we have done well in building up the corporate, more middle class fan (and women), and we have been ''inclusive'' bringing in the floating fan i.e I know spectators who follow other Clubs, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle, but who attend Carrow Road, and even bring their kids. Nevertheless, even at a time when football remains, popular, it remains something of a mystery why we do so well.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

Lower unemployment, rising population, improved transport links, a rise in the status of Norwich as a City, the clubs clever "catch`em young" policy, the staged payments on season-tickets and ease of buying tickets online- particularly as so much of our support lives in rural areas.

The fact is we have a huge catchment area and are at last taking some advantage of it.  Take Birmingham, touted as a big club simply because they are in the second city, yet unable to fill their ground even in the Prem.- but Greater Brum has a population of 3 million with SIX clubs and plenty of other sports and liesure activities.  Norfolk and North Suffolk has a population of 1 million with sod-all apart from NCFC.....

[Mello Yello 2,302]

Out in the sticks, stare at field full of sugar beet on a Saturday?.....Or stare at a pitch full of cabbages on a Saturday?

It''s also very much a social thing.....