Where do we go from here........?

[Arthur Whittle 0]

This isn''t about an anti board slanging match but i really want to know what fellow posters on this great site think. We''ve spent around 1 million on players and got in a few loans to cover players we deemed not good enough. Now as i type this teams like Bristol City are spending 2.25million on one player.Yes you could argue its silly money for such a player but i honestly think we are not going to get anywhere near the play offs with such transfer activity as ours. So if say we end up in a realistic 10-13th, what happens next season? Do we do the same again? Will players want to join a club still struggling in the Championship? Or will Roeders influence and contacts sell us to potential srarlets? We actually spent more last season,albeit with an unproven and ultimately rubbish manager, but it does suggest we are hoping for that bit of luck without really showing any ambition. I know this is all hypothetical but it''s an honest account of things as i see it, the board sitting on there hands still hoping for a stroke of luck content with Championship football. Thoughts......

[WeAreYellows49 0]

SAW to be totally honest I really don''t know, I do know I want the club to move onwards and upwards, the current squad, well who knows how they will do.  They might be as bad as the lot GR shipped out, but then they might all gel and set the league alight, it''s unknown at the minute.

There''s an awful lot of what if''s and maybe''s and I don''t know that anyone on here will come up with a feasable & realistic solution.

As for the board, my feelings are very clear on those, I won''t repeat those as it''s been stated before countless times.  However I really do feel they can take us no further forward, and until a big investor buys them out there is very little we can do, other than protest as a last resort if things go drastically downhill again this season.  But all this is too soon to be talking about for me, as I think that the team and GR have to be given a fair crack of the whip and to know the fans are firmly behind them.

To be fair to GR, his signings have so far been good, but, I am sure we will all make our own judgements when if by Xmas time things are not looking too rosey in the garden of CR.

 

[norfolkbroadslim 225]

Good post Arthur.

We don''t have the money to even compete in the Championship anymore.

We are short of a keeper and 2 strikers and maybe more.  We don''t have the quality in the squad to sustain a maintained push for promotion.

It''s all loans and players on the cheap.  Which isn''t necessarily a bad thing, but with our starting point of a minute squad lacking in quality, there is no way we can compete.

Top six consistently next season would be a miracle. 

In all honesty and seriousness I think we will finish anywhere from 14th - 8th position.

Long term, we can expect no better.  Lose Roeder and probably worse, the (relatively) little amounts of money that Delia and the board can afford for squad strengthening will soon get swamped even by Champuionship standards in a couple of years time.  We will struggle to stay in this league.

We need investment or some way of releasing money or another way of funding squad strengthening otherwise we will be struggling to stay in this league.  Long term if things stay pretty much as they are we will be flitting between League One and The Championship.[:(]

[O.T.B.C 1]

I think we will be in the mix come end of the season, but like you say, if we don''t, I can''t see the crowds and the training pitch alone pulling decent players. I think we still have the pulling power now, GR is well thought off, despite what people say. Its a shame we don''t have the money and I know it is the sign of the times, but we shouldn''t be in this situation. I can honestly see PC coming in, if we have a bad season. Again, I can''t see the point of any kind of demos etc against the board whilst the season is in play, if just effects the team and club too much. I will be one of the first up there having a go if it is a crap season.

There needs to be some proper answers and probably questions from both sides of the PC and Delia debate with regards to the offer. We don''t know the money situation with the club and to be honset we probably need to keep it this way, if we know, then other clubs know. Still think we have one big signing before the season starts. We have to face reality that we need loan players, we will buy cheap players and we won''t be able to compete whilst we don''t have some rich sugar daddy owner.

[FilletTheFishWife . 0]

down to the lake i fear

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="WeAreYellows49"]

SAW to be totally honest I really don''t know, I do know I want the club to move onwards and upwards, the current squad, well who knows how they will do.  They might be as bad as the lot GR shipped out, but then they might all gel and set the league alight, it''s unknown at the minute.

There''s an awful lot of what if''s and maybe''s and I don''t know that anyone on here will come up with a feasable & realistic solution.

As for the board, my feelings are very clear on those, I won''t repeat those as it''s been stated before countless times.  However I really do feel they can take us no further forward, and until a big investor buys them out there is very little we can do, other than protest as a last resort if things go drastically downhill again this season.  But all this is too soon to be talking about for me, as I think that the team and GR have to be given a fair crack of the whip and to know the fans are firmly behind them.

To be fair to GR, his signings have so far been good, but, I am sure we will all make our own judgements when if by Xmas time things are not looking too rosey in the garden of CR.

 

[/quote]

I agree WAY! We don''t know and I have no idea what to expect.

I am struggling a bit at the thought of "the team" gelling and setting the team alight while "the board" are still at the wrong end of the table. [;)]

 

[The Walking Man 13]

[quote user="Sir Arthur Whittle MBE Lord of the Haymarket"]

This isn''t about an anti board slanging match but i really want to know what fellow posters on this great site think. We''ve spent around 1 million on players and got in a few loans to cover players we deemed not good enough. Now as i type this teams like Bristol City are spending 2.25million on one player.Yes you could argue its silly money for such a player but i honestly think we are not going to get anywhere near the play offs with such transfer activity as ours. So if say we end up in a realistic 10-13th, what happens next season? Do we do the same again? Will players want to join a club still struggling in the Championship? Or will Roeders influence and contacts sell us to potential srarlets? We actually spent more last season,albeit with an unproven and ultimately rubbish manager, but it does suggest we are hoping for that bit of luck without really showing any ambition. I know this is all hypothetical but it''s an honest account of things as i see it, the board sitting on there hands still hoping for a stroke of luck content with Championship football. Thoughts......

[/quote]

 

If we end in 10th- 13th then that''s hardly struglling, couter-acting the hyposthetical point of players wanting to join a ''struggling'' championship club...

 

You''ve unintentionally hit the nail on the head hear I feel. In my opinion championship football is not solely about who spends the most money, who has the most fans etc but, the biggest factor in getting promoted from this division is luck. Have a pretty consitant, free of injuries, throughout the year and any side is in with a chance...

 

What will happen in the future is anybody''s guess, and is only a guess [:D]

[O.T.B.C 1]

A squad without injuries, a half decent attack and defence will be up there, sounds simple I know, but look at Stoke, Reading and Derby in recent years, nothin special.

[timncfc 0]

teams like stoke and reading were built over a couple of years thats got to be our aim too,give players,staff time its not going to happen over night with the board we have so let glenn work his magic,which im sure he will just not this season,top half finish- happy with that

[O.T.B.C 1]

One other point that I need to bring up and it has been said on a few occasions is the youth system. I feel that it has equal importance if not more than the debate of ownership. You look at the Man City youth setup, brilliant and we need to have a set up like that.

Don''t know if this should be in this post, but as you can see, I have stuck it here too.

 

[Arthur Whittle 0]

[quote user="The Walking Man"][quote user="Sir Arthur Whittle MBE Lord of the Haymarket"]

This isn''t about an anti board slanging match but i really want to know what fellow posters on this great site think. We''ve spent around 1 million on players and got in a few loans to cover players we deemed not good enough. Now as i type this teams like Bristol City are spending 2.25million on one player.Yes you could argue its silly money for such a player but i honestly think we are not going to get anywhere near the play offs with such transfer activity as ours. So if say we end up in a realistic 10-13th, what happens next season? Do we do the same again? Will players want to join a club still struggling in the Championship? Or will Roeders influence and contacts sell us to potential srarlets? We actually spent more last season,albeit with an unproven and ultimately rubbish manager, but it does suggest we are hoping for that bit of luck without really showing any ambition. I know this is all hypothetical but it''s an honest account of things as i see it, the board sitting on there hands still hoping for a stroke of luck content with Championship football. Thoughts......

[/quote]

 

If we end in 10th- 13th then that''s hardly struglling, couter-acting the hyposthetical point of players wanting to join a ''struggling'' championship club...

 

You''ve unintentionally hit the nail on the head hear I feel. In my opinion championship football is not solely about who spends the most money, who has the most fans etc but, the biggest factor in getting promoted from this division is luck. Have a pretty consitant, free of injuries, throughout the year and any side is in with a chance...

 

What will happen in the future is anybody''s guess, and is only a guess [:D]

[/quote]

I agree,10-13th is hardly struggling but its not enough. Are we as supporters prepared as  whole to except such posistions and take those kind of positions season after season? I dont know, but i think its not the way forward. As for luck, well yes i agree you need luck,but most teams like Derby, Birmingham, West Brom have paid good money and good wages on highly respected and proven players to get out of this league.

[O.T.B.C 1]

13th is no where near good enough. We should always be looking at top 6 finishes.

[Beauseant 0]

While I think that all of the comments above are valid,I also think that its too early to be making too many judgements either way.As I''ve said on another thread it will inevitably take time for the squad to gel,and that''s not helped by how long some of the deals have taken/are taking.In addition,we still have players to come,and until we see the quality(or otherwise !) of them we shouldn''t be too pessimistic.GR has a budget and we can only speculate on what it is,but one thing that I learned from many years of football management is that the one thing you don''t do  is go too big too soon.If you can hold your nerve and be patient there will always be opportunities,and I would like to think that the promised 7-14 day target man is just such an opportunity.I will therefore reserve judgement until Glenn has played his full hand,although I agree that unless we get someone impressive I will be disappointed.However,even if that proves to be the case I still feel that this squad can do pretty well.

[Branston Pickle 4,150]

I personally think we will finish somewhere between 8th and 12th, and I am relatively happy with that.  Yes we want better but if we do that in Roeder''s first full season it will show progress.  Under Worthy, the side was built up gradually, and I don''t see why it can''t be done again.  

Just to disagree with the idea that you have to spend, at the start of last season I very much doubt that anyone would have had Hull and Stoke as promoted sides.  Neither had particularly spent a great deal of money, but spent it wisely and to a plan.  The whole point is that to get out of this league you need to get a group of players together who gel and perform (usually starting from defence) - and they don''t even need to from day 1.  Of the promoted sides in the last few seasons, almost all have relied heavily on loans - Stoke and West Brom had at least 5 in their squad last season (Stoke had more as had to leave at least one out in the infamous Sheff Wed game); the previous season Sunderland had plenty (incl several Man U) as did Derby, including our very own Lupoli.

 

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

I think we have been quite lucky in the transfer market so far.  I believe that in Clingan, Hoolahan and Bell we have 3 players who would all cost at least £1m each if we were having to pay a fair market value.  We have robbed Luton because of there league position and financial status, Hooly we know about and from what I have seen Forest were desperate for Clingan to stay.  I also think Lupoli and Omozusi could turn out to be inspired signings, we already know Bertrand is the business.  And lets not forget that the market is open until end of August, so we may not be finished yet. 

So there you go, I dont totally agree that we are lacking ambition, but I do worry about what would have been had we not played the market so cutely.  Biggest concern for me is if this side gels and does as well as we hope how do we finance the move to the next level.  But we can worry about that if and when it happens.

[Yellowfuture 71]

I think Roeder spoke about a three year plan,with that in mind he may well  view 10th as a good season.If we are to take a slow building approach then surely we need to be buying young players, or using our own accademy boys if any are up to it, developing them and playing them on a regular basis.

I cant see how building a team over a number of years equates to taking lots of players on loan? Where is the long term development in that?

All clubs need a vision, I would like to know what ours is because I cant see where we are trying to go with our current approach.

Everything points towards us treading water and probably hoping for little more than Championship survival and continued revenue from ticket sales.

Hope I`m wrong.

 

[BunnyB 0]

i think we will know by January because we will be able 2 see the squad in full flow

[Carlos Valderrama 0]

[quote user="thefutureisyellow"]

I think Roeder spoke about a three year plan,with that in mind he may well  view 10th as a good season.If we are to take a slow building approach then surely we need to be buying young players, or using our own accademy boys if any are up to it, developing them and playing them on a regular basis.

I cant see how building a team over a number of years equates to taking lots of players on loan? Where is the long term development in that?

All clubs need a vision, I would like to know what ours is because I cant see where we are trying to go with our current approach.

Everything points towards us treading water and probably hoping for little more than Championship survival and continued revenue from ticket sales.

Hope I`m wrong.

 

[/quote]

Because so far we have added 4 of our own and bulked up with 4 loans.  Next close season we will add another 2 or 3 of our own so we will only need to bulk up with 1 or 2.  After that the squad should be just where you want it and the only loans you add are the real gems of quality that will make you better.

Also by bringing in youngsters that are of a better quality than our own it sets a benchmark for the youngsters to aspire to.  It also gives us an extra year for the promising ones to develop.  Whats the point spending £1-2m on a 22/23 year old player when say a young Korey Smith or Tom Adeyami is on the verge of breaking through and just needs that extra to polish or bulk up.

I dont have a problem with playing the loan market at all.  I also think the squad is shaping up nicely considering how little we have actually spent. 

[Barclay_Boy 0]

There''s only one way this will ever get better SAW, and that''s when enough people think like you and I, and get angry enough to force a change, Sad thing is, that will only happen if things get worse to start off with. Too many people still up on that fence, happy with mediocre finishes anywhere between 8th and 18th.

[. 0]

Apathy from the stands will allow things to drift further into the mire. Roeder will not be able to inspire the average quality players brought in...and without a Dion Dublin or Huckerby to call on it will not be pretty.

A relegation scrap........

[nutty nigel 7,902]

[quote user="Barclay_Boy"]There''s only one way this will ever get better SAW, and that''s when enough people think like you and I, and get angry enough to force a change, Sad thing is, that will only happen if things get worse to start off with. Too many people still up on that fence, happy with mediocre finishes anywhere between 8th and 18th.[/quote]

But plenty of people do think like you and SAW Barclay_Boy. If you read this message board I should think there''s quite a healthy percentage on here would not happy sitting on the fence accepting mediocre finishes. So why is there not enough anger to force a change? And......

[quote user="Neil Cluckcaster"]

Apathy from the stands will allow things to drift further into the mire. Roeder will not be able to inspire the average quality players brought in...and without a Dion Dublin or Huckerby to call on it will not be pretty.

A relegation scrap........

[/quote]

... given the apathy from the stands why are these healthy percentage of Pink Un Posters not making themselves heard on match days?

 

[Evil Monkey 52]

Excellent thread Arthur.  Right now my mind is addled by a bottle of red, too much FM and not enough sleep, so I''ll proffer my thoughts tomorrow when I''m at work and looking for reasons to get out of actually doing any! [:)]

[Big Down Under 0]

Good thread.As a club, we need to;- Keep Roeder. With our limited transfer budget, we need a manager who can spot talented bargains (Hoolahan, Bell, Clingan I expect will fall into this category) and who has the contacts to bring in good loans (Omozusi, Bertrand, Evens). - Limit off field spending (no more land deals please) to maximise his budget. - Seriously look at the academy. If it isn''t going to turn a profit for us, get rid of it. We should be selling decent young players for profit, not spending a fortune on them and letting them go for nothing.- Keep Delia away from the media, she is a PR disaster area.- Keep open lines of communication with Cullum. When he has liquidated more assets, I want him to buy out Delia.As fans, we need to;- Get 100% behind the team. We all seem to expect a slow start whilst the team gels, give them time. A top 10 finish would be a real improvement, so long as we are playing the right way (no hoofball) I would be happy with this- Understand that gate receipts play only a relatively minor role in financing a Champs club in 2008. Rich board members are far more important. Ours aren''t rich enough to compete, but that are doing what they can- Drop the Cullum stuff. Its over, stop harping on about it.- Remember the Delia Out stuff doesn''t help the club or the team.

[Big Down Under 0]

Sorry meant to add, our aim should be (over a three year plan)- This season 08/09 top 10 finish - Next season 09/10 top 6 finish- Season after 10/11 top 2 finish

[Mark .Y. 375]

Well, we are just about at the start of a new season. I think GR has done well with his limited budget and expect two more strikers to follow, one potentially being a "big money" purchase. I think at the moment, given the two new strikers, we are capable of a top-half of the table finish but I don''t expect us to make the play-offs. For the future, it is clear to me we need new investment from somewhere.

Now, the real point of me contributing to this thread. I know I am in the minority and fully expect a kicking for this but I am afraid I don''t rate GR very highly. I believe he is a reasonable operator in the transfer market but I don''t think too much of his managerial or tactical skills. I understand those who say he "saved" us last season and that in itself is indisputable (although there are many who may have come in and done the same job), one of my key concerns was the poor run that followed the good run. I believe the mark of a good manager is how he deals with things when they are not going quite right and I didn''t see anything to suggest that GR could turn things around at the back end of last season. I don''t think the end of season could come quick enough for him. He has rebuilt the team of course but most clubs have a poor run at some time during the season and that is when, for me, he will need to prove himself.

OK, kick away !!!

 

Mark .Y.

     

[mr carra 0]

There is actually a very good reason there isn’t more anger and that is that we are a pretty well-run club.  Of course it isn’t always as successful as we’d like on the pitch but then no club is.

 

Every footballing decision a club makes is a gamble – there are no real certainties – a player that looks great for one team can look hopeless at another while players that look hopeless for one club (Akinbiye and Sheron here, for instance) can bang in goals for fun elsewhere.  The same applies to managers – Walker could do no wrong in his first spell here but failed at Everton and looked a total mediocrity in his second spell here.  Worthy was a terrific Championship manager from 2001 to 2004 and a hopeless one after we got relegated.   That sort of thing simply cannot reliably be predicted in advance (it’s easy with hindsight, which so many people on here seem to have in abundance).  Luck plays a huge in getting the chemistry right in any particular season.  

 

As a result pretty much all clubs fluctuate between good seasons and bad seasons.  We are no different, it is just that ours have been a bit more clumped together recently – good seasons in the early part of the decade, undeniably bad seasons for the past three.  But the people on the board making decisions now are the same ones, making decisions on the same basis, as those that brought us such fantastic times in 2002 and 2004.  Things just worked out then and haven’t recently – that doesn’t tell us anything much about the Board but a lot about football.  However fortunes can change back just as quickly.  The much-admired Charlton board who achieved Prem status for quite a few years (presumably exactly what we are looking for from our Board) are, I suspect, the very same people who are now within one year of overseeing their club becoming an average Championship club with no parachute payments and a Championship-sized budget. 

 

This simply isn’t one of the biggest 20 clubs in the country – we have no right to expect to be in the Premiership (we can certainly hope for it!).  Are we a badly run club?  Look at the other similar sized clubs that played predominantly in the top division in the 70s/80s/90s – Coventry, Leicester, Ipswich, Southampton.  All have suffered far greater financial trauma than us in recent years and none are significantly better off than us at this moment (a couple would appear to be worse off).  It is because we are a well-run club that we have remained pretty financially stable and, like the rest of this division, if the footballing decisions work out right for us we are always capable of having a good season.  Only time will tell if this will be one…

 

But there certainly doesn''t appear to be anything to be angry about as though we are suffering from some great injustice.  But I guess that’s modern entitlement culture for you….

[Yellow Submarine 0]

[quote user="mr carra"]

There is actually a very good reason there isn’t more anger and that is that we are a pretty well-run club.  Of course it isn’t always as successful as we’d like on the pitch but then no club is.

 

Every footballing decision a club makes is a gamble – there are no real certainties – a player that looks great for one team can look hopeless at another while players that look hopeless for one club (Akinbiye and Sheron here, for instance) can bang in goals for fun elsewhere.  The same applies to managers – Walker could do no wrong in his first spell here but failed at Everton and looked a total mediocrity in his second spell here.  Worthy was a terrific Championship manager from 2001 to 2004 and a hopeless one after we got relegated.   That sort of thing simply cannot reliably be predicted in advance (it’s easy with hindsight, which so many people on here seem to have in abundance).  Luck plays a huge in getting the chemistry right in any particular season.  

 

As a result pretty much all clubs fluctuate between good seasons and bad seasons.  We are no different, it is just that ours have been a bit more clumped together recently – good seasons in the early part of the decade, undeniably bad seasons for the past three.  But the people on the board making decisions now are the same ones, making decisions on the same basis, as those that brought us such fantastic times in 2002 and 2004.  Things just worked out then and haven’t recently – that doesn’t tell us anything much about the Board but a lot about football.  However fortunes can change back just as quickly.  The much-admired Charlton board who achieved Prem status for quite a few years (presumably exactly what we are looking for from our Board) are, I suspect, the very same people who are now within one year of overseeing their club becoming an average Championship club with no parachute payments and a Championship-sized budget. 

 

This simply isn’t one of the biggest 20 clubs in the country – we have no right to expect to be in the Premiership (we can certainly hope for it!).  Are we a badly run club?  Look at the other similar sized clubs that played predominantly in the top division in the 70s/80s/90s – Coventry, Leicester, Ipswich, Southampton.  All have suffered far greater financial trauma than us in recent years and none are significantly better off than us at this moment (a couple would appear to be worse off).  It is because we are a well-run club that we have remained pretty financially stable and, like the rest of this division, if the footballing decisions work out right for us we are always capable of having a good season.  Only time will tell if this will be one…

 

But there certainly doesn''t appear to be anything to be angry about as though we are suffering from some great injustice.  But I guess that’s modern entitlement culture for you….

[/quote]

Great thread, and great reply mr carra!

I would just like to add. What if Glenn has so far purchased all the players he set out to buy at the start of the summer? And why does everyone assume there is no money to spend? I believe if we''re going to make a "big money" signing ( I don''t think you judge a teams credentials or ambition on how much money they spend) it will be towards the end of the transfer window, which, remember folks, is still 30 days away! 

[ron obvious 1,711]

Well done Arthur for sparking a genuine & mature debate about the club. It was interesting to see BDUs take on the bigger picture, he''s normally too busy trying to bring some rationality to debates about how much the Board is stealing from the club to do anything else! Anyone who thinks he is an apologist for Delia & co. should read this thread.I quite understand Mark. Y.''s concerns about Roeder. I suspect he took the position that, after the good run, the club was far enough away from relegation (but as yet unready to chase promotion) to enable him to experiment with the squad - & playing Gibbs helped keep him in with Wenger, obviously a good thing. As it happens it was a bloody risky strategy! I, like everybody else, also worry about what''s going on with Pattison; I don''t believe he''s lost all footballing ability overnight, but he looked anxious & full of nerves against Spurs right from the start. Roeder''s either got to sort him or sstop playing him. It does make you worry about his man-management skills.P.S. have you noticed how the text speak crowd have avoided this thread? I wonder if all those long words & paragraphs have foxed them. So, in conclusion, I would like to communicate my aspiration that a cocatenation of felicitious happenstances engender a modicum of approbation from all who, with absolute veracity, can award themselves the appelation: a supporter of Norwich City Footballing Club.So there.

[Evil Monkey 52]

To my mind, the recent struggles of this club are a combination of poor

past decisions and the changing climate of football in general.

It began when the board dallied over the purchase of Ashton, continued

through hanging onto Worthington too long and then got worse with the

appointment of Peter Bloody Grant.  The combination of these three

mistakes have set us back greatly and with transfer fees rocketing

we''re now playing catch-up with a good portion of the rest of the

league.  The board are culpable, but the appointment of Roeder has

at least set us back on course and they now need to ensure that they

back him with funds for a striker, which may yet happen as Yellow

Submarine has said, and I too have a gut feeling about.

Obviously this isn''t a thread about the board''s mistakes per se, but it

is against this backdrop that I have set my expectations for the coming

seasons.  Roeder himself has spoken of a three year plan, and he

may well be right.  Last season was all about survival, and for me

this coming season must be about consolidation and improvement. 

Top 10 would be about right for me for 2008/9, followed by a summer of

further team rebuilding and a push for promotion in 2009/10.

This isn''t a lack of ambition on my part, or being happy to be a

little, mid-table club, its simply that the series of set-backs I''ve

listed have put us back to square one.  Right now it feels to me

like Worthy''s second season in charge; new manager replaces one of the

worst in recent history, survives relegation, rebuilds the squad and

eventually pushes for promotion.  The similarities are quite scary

really, and it shouldn''t be this way but it is.

Right now I''m clinging to those similarities and hoping Roeder can pull

the proverbial rabbit out of the hat before next Saturday.  The

coming season will be the one that makes or breaks the board.  If

they fail to back Roeder and we struggle, that will certainly be it for

them, and I''m sure a certain Mr Cullum will be waiting in the wings to

make a move.  If, however, they do back him and we push on, then

we can consider that a minor success and look forward to the next

season.

Unfortunately it is all a case of ifs and buts, for we simply do not

know how much money this board has, whether any secret investment has

gone through, or which players Glenn has been targeting.

Either way, methinks its going to be an interesting year...

[First Wazzock 1,014]

[quote user="mr carra"]

There is actually a very good reason there isn’t more anger and that is that we are a pretty well-run club.  Of course it isn’t always as successful as we’d like on the pitch but then no club is.

 

Every footballing decision a club makes is a gamble – there are no real certainties – a player that looks great for one team can look hopeless at another while players that look hopeless for one club (Akinbiye and Sheron here, for instance) can bang in goals for fun elsewhere.  The same applies to managers – Walker could do no wrong in his first spell here but failed at Everton and looked a total mediocrity in his second spell here.  Worthy was a terrific Championship manager from 2001 to 2004 and a hopeless one after we got relegated.   That sort of thing simply cannot reliably be predicted in advance (it’s easy with hindsight, which so many people on here seem to have in abundance).  Luck plays a huge in getting the chemistry right in any particular season.  

 

As a result pretty much all clubs fluctuate between good seasons and bad seasons.  We are no different, it is just that ours have been a bit more clumped together recently – good seasons in the early part of the decade, undeniably bad seasons for the past three.  But the people on the board making decisions now are the same ones, making decisions on the same basis, as those that brought us such fantastic times in 2002 and 2004.  Things just worked out then and haven’t recently – that doesn’t tell us anything much about the Board but a lot about football.  However fortunes can change back just as quickly.  The much-admired Charlton board who achieved Prem status for quite a few years (presumably exactly what we are looking for from our Board) are, I suspect, the very same people who are now within one year of overseeing their club becoming an average Championship club with no parachute payments and a Championship-sized budget. 

 

This simply isn’t one of the biggest 20 clubs in the country – we have no right to expect to be in the Premiership (we can certainly hope for it!).  Are we a badly run club?  Look at the other similar sized clubs that played predominantly in the top division in the 70s/80s/90s – Coventry, Leicester, Ipswich, Southampton.  All have suffered far greater financial trauma than us in recent years and none are significantly better off than us at this moment (a couple would appear to be worse off).  It is because we are a well-run club that we have remained pretty financially stable and, like the rest of this division, if the footballing decisions work out right for us we are always capable of having a good season.  Only time will tell if this will be one…

 

But there certainly doesn''t appear to be anything to be angry about as though we are suffering from some great injustice.  But I guess that’s modern entitlement culture for you….

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I have also got to say good thread SAW and good reply Mr Carra.

But as always we are left to ask why has the board constantly failed to match the ambition of ''the best fans in the world''?

In part I think it must be down to our strong fan base - We have a home fan sell out again, but if your club didn''t have this luxuary you would have to put more money in to attract the fans in an attempt to maximise gate receipts. They know full well it will be a full house whatever and therefore have no pressure to spend.