I don’t think we can defend well enough to win the playoffs

[hogesar 9,743]

3 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Whatever combinations of defenders we put out is just not good enough defensively and Wagner won’t allow us to play on the front foot if we get our noses in front in a game like that.

even in the scum game we nearly let them back in it in the last 15 minutes by sitting back.

Maybe Rowe’s return could allow us to put Kenny at the back with Duffy which looked our best pairing but I just have zero faith in any defence with Hanley, Baath, Gibson or McCullum (who I like generally) in it to defend well enough. 

Gibson and Duffy is our best chance, with Mclean and Nunez and Sara all playing in front.

McCallum is a problem in that he gave the ball away 30 times yesterday. But he's a weapon in other area. But from your defensive point of view, he and Baath were the biggest problems.

[BigFish 1,988]

3 hours ago, duke63 said:

Does anyone really want to be back in the EPL, winning 5 games all season and getting hammered week in week out? Its not entertaining, its not fun and makes me lose interest in football.

Yes

[Segura 84]

29 minutes ago, Fifty said:

There’s lots to be said about shape, missing chances. But in isolation for the 2 goals last night I think Gunn was weak, the second one in particular. They have been headed in from 2-3 yards out and he’s stuck to his line on the first and misjudged the cross/corner for the second.

He’s had a great season but it’s a flaw to his game and we have got away with a few before last night. I just think anything in the 6 yard box and especially more under the crossbar like last night he needs to be getting something on the ball in. 
 

He’s a big keeper and when he does come for crosses he does well so he has the ability.
 

Appreciate this might not be popular but goalkeepers rooted to their line has always been an irritation to me

This was exactly the first thing I thought when watching the highlights - as good as Gunny has been this season and in fairness he made one great save last night, I thought he was poor on those two goals.

I also share your irritation here, Gunn is developing into a fine keeper for us, but I don't thinks he's as commanding or aggressive as he should be - something which Krul was good at.

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

Any of our centre-half pairings are mediocre at best. I wouldn’t be disappointed if any of them are let go in the summer. 

[Indy 3,315]

1 minute ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Any of our centre-half pairings are mediocre at best. I wouldn’t be disappointed if any of them are let go in the summer. 

You mean All Of Them are let go! 😂😉

Edited April 10 by Indy

[Fifty 45]

1 hour ago, Six Pack said:

Wasn't he boxed in ?

Not really for the second one - misjudged and got underneath. Some pressure on first but he needs to deal with it 

[Old Shuck 188]

5 hours ago, Bomber said:

Good call

I agree but the problem there is that players who look good enough to be part of a side that achieve more in the Premier League than just go straight down again aren't going to hang around for 2-3 years as part of 'the plan'.

You either have a decent enough team to get promotion and they'll (mostly) stay...as would presumably be the case if we went up this season...or you have a decent enough side that just misses out and loses its best players because of that-which will also, presumably, be the case if we don't go up this season. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

2 hours ago, Indy said:

You mean All Of Them are let go! 😂😉

Problem is I doubt we’d get a penny for any of them. Free transfers on far lower wages if moved on.

[Thirsty Lizard 3,183]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Gibson and Duffy is our best chance, with Mclean and Nunez and Sara all playing in front.

McCallum is a problem in that he gave the ball away 30 times yesterday. But he's a weapon in other area. But from your defensive point of view, he and Baath were the biggest problems.

Think that's very unfair on him. He won an awful lot of important defensive headers last night - he's prodigious in the air for a full back - I hate to think what would have happened last night if Gianoullis had been playing there. 

[Indy 3,315]

3 hours ago, hogesar said:

Gibson and Duffy is our best chance, with Mclean and Nunez and Sara all playing in front.

McCallum is a problem in that he gave the ball away 30 times yesterday. But he's a weapon in other area. But from your defensive point of view, he and Baath were the biggest problems.

Given how many times Gibson gave the ball away, McLean too with some very ordinary passes in that second half to single McCullum out is a bit wrong.

I think he’s definitely a better option all round and had we got a decent mobile and intelligent CB pairing we would see more from him.

[hogesar 9,743]

6 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Think that's very unfair on him. He won an awful lot of important defensive headers last night - he's prodigious in the air for a full back - I hate to think what would have happened last night if Gianoullis had been playing there. 

 

1 minute ago, Indy said:

Given how many times Gibson gave the ball away, McLean too with some very ordinary passes in that second half to single McCullum out is a bit wrong.

I think he’s definitely a better option all round and had we got a decent mobile and intelligent CB pairing we would see more from him.

Mclean lost possession 13 times, Nunez 11 times. Gibson, Baath and Stacey were all around the same number (14, 9 and 12 I think).

McCallum was genuinely 31 times. That is, irrespective of everything else, suicidal in terms of the core fundamentals of defensive work, even if I agree he was good in other ways.

I'm not singling him out, the amount of times he lost possession is what's singling him out!

 

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

Without even reading through this thread, our defence has been problematic for years. Maybe, just maybe if we had a proper CDM our CBs wouldn’t lose their heads every time we are under pressure.

[Satriales 693]

7 hours ago, duke63 said:

Does anyone really want to be back in the EPL, winning 5 games all season and getting hammered week in week out? Its not entertaining, its not fun and makes me lose interest in football.

I would rather we had a proper plan that might take two or three seasons but with a team that might be able to compete.

 

No but the £££ always helps.

[Satriales 693]

33 minutes ago, Thirsty Lizard said:

Think that's very unfair on him. He won an awful lot of important defensive headers last night - he's prodigious in the air for a full back - I hate to think what would have happened last night if Gianoullis had been playing there. 

And he has a decent long throw which lead to the first goal.

[nutty nigel 7,619]

This is a massive step forward and vote of confidence in Webber and his team. Not long ago the claims where we couldn’t defend well enough to get in the play offs. 
Great positivity Jimbo💛💚👍

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

Just now, nutty nigel said:

This is a massive step forward and vote of confidence in Webber and his team. Not long ago the claims where we couldn’t defend well enough to get in the play offs. 
Great positivity Jimbo💛💚👍

To a point you’re correct, but if promoted praise the Lord Webber isn’t here to recruit a PL team. Great with little or no money and hopeless with plenty.

[It's Character Forming 1,166]

3 hours ago, Segura said:

This was exactly the first thing I thought when watching the highlights - as good as Gunny has been this season and in fairness he made one great save last night, I thought he was poor on those two goals.

I also share your irritation here, Gunn is developing into a fine keeper for us, but I don't thinks he's as commanding or aggressive as he should be - something which Krul was good at.

The thing for me is that Wednesday won an endless succession of corners and Gunn came to punch out several of them, it was just the pressure that wore down the defence I thought.  Presumably the highlights just show the goals, not all the corners/crosses leading up to them.

[nutty nigel 7,619]

8 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

To a point you’re correct, but if promoted praise the Lord Webber isn’t here to recruit a PL team. Great with little or no money and hopeless with plenty.

And with one post the positivity moves to the possibility of winning the play offs and competing in the PL 💛💚👍

Lakey eat your heart out…

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

26 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

And with one post the positivity moves to the possibility of winning the play offs and competing in the PL 💛💚👍

Lakey eat your heart out…

*If was the key word Nutty, 8/1 chance but stranger things happen at sea. 

[Midlands Yellow 4,079]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

 

Mclean lost possession 13 times, Nunez 11 times. Gibson, Baath and Stacey were all around the same number (14, 9 and 12 I think).

McCallum was genuinely 31 times. That is, irrespective of everything else, suicidal in terms of the core fundamentals of defensive work, even if I agree he was good in other ways.

I'm not singling him out, the amount of times he lost possession is what's singling him out!

 

I hope you were counting them during the match live Hoggy and didn’t look em up. 

[ZLF 274]

He made 55 passes with a 63% success rate which is 20 pass possession losses, not good but also not 31;   what makes up the other 11?

[hogesar 9,743]

5 minutes ago, ZLF said:

He made 55 passes with a 63% success rate which is 20 pass possession losses, not good but also not 31;   what makes up the other 11?

It's "possession lost" so not just misplaced passes (of which yes, he is one of the worst) but also for being tackled, interceptions etc. For comparison vs Ipswich he lost it half as much

[hogesar 9,743]

16 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

I hope you were counting them during the match live Hoggy and didn’t look em up. 

I keep a tally chart on a notepad

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,386]

5 hours ago, OTBC06 said:

I actually can't remember a decent solid defence we have had for a very very long time. It would probably have Drury in there though. But really, what has been our most solid defence in the past 20 years. 

Edworthy Fleming Mackay Drury

[Virtual reality 716]

If we get to the playoffs and I think we will, I  doubt any team will relish the prospect of playing us. The real problems begin if we go and win the bloody thing! Where the hell do you begin with this team in the premier league with the limited money that will be available?

[Channon’s Windmill 330]

1 hour ago, Virtual reality said:

If we get to the playoffs and I think we will, I  doubt any team will relish the prospect of playing us. The real problems begin if we go and win the bloody thing! Where the hell do you begin with this team in the premier league with the limited money that will be available?

Absolutely this, I’m not one who would say nah, who wants promotion because it brings £ , but we would seriously rival the Derby low points tally without spending massively.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

9 hours ago, Jim Smith said:

Whatever combinations of defenders we put out is just not good enough defensively and Wagner won’t allow us to play on the front foot if we get our noses in front in a game like that.

even in the scum game we nearly let them back in it in the last 15 minutes by sitting back.

Maybe Rowe’s return could allow us to put Kenny at the back with Duffy which looked our best pairing but I just have zero faith in any defence with Hanley, Baath, Gibson or McCullum (who I like generally) in it to defend well enough. 

I don't agree. Literally anybody can beat anybody on the right day in this league.

It's by no means a dead cert, but it's definitely achievable. It's not like we don't win more games than we lose.

Edited April 10 by littleyellowbirdie

[Thirsty Lizard 3,183]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

 

Mclean lost possession 13 times, Nunez 11 times. Gibson, Baath and Stacey were all around the same number (14, 9 and 12 I think).

McCallum was genuinely 31 times. That is, irrespective of everything else, suicidal in terms of the core fundamentals of defensive work, even if I agree he was good in other ways.

I'm not singling him out, the amount of times he lost possession is what's singling him out!

 

Genuinely interested where you got these figures from Hoggy. I was able to watch most of the match, but not all of it, but didn't get the impression that McCallum was particularly guilty of giving away posession. 

There is of course a whole lot of context missing here. For example if McCallum put a dangerous cross into the box which a stretching Wednesday defender just managed to get a head on first, does that count as a loss of possession?

You do realise that if you can't answer these questions you'll be condemning me to watch the whole match again on the official site with a pen and paper collating how many times each of our players lost the ball. 😅

Edited April 10 by Thirsty Lizard

[littleyellowbirdie 2,594]

1 hour ago, Virtual reality said:

If we get to the playoffs and I think we will, I  doubt any team will relish the prospect of playing us. The real problems begin if we go and win the bloody thing! Where the hell do you begin with this team in the premier league with the limited money that will be available?

If/when we get promoted then we have the unknown quantity of what Attanassio and partners are prepared to put in to keep their investment in the Premier League.  That's uncharted territory and we'll only know the answer when we get there.

[Sufyellow 223]

9 hours ago, duke63 said:

Does anyone really want to be back in the EPL, winning 5 games all season and getting hammered week in week out? Its not entertaining, its not fun and makes me lose interest in football.

I would rather we had a proper plan that might take two or three seasons but with a team that might be able to compete.

 

I would agree except if Ipswich go up we will not hear the end of it.