Sara

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

Clearly not happy with having to play a deeper role judging by that interview.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,801]

Of course he's not. It's not where he should be playing and he knows it.

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

Just now, cambridgeshire canary said:

Of course he's not. It's not where he should be playing and he knows it.

Yeah, but he didn't even try and hide it. Thought he would be here until the summer, but wouldn't be surprised to see him knocking Knappers door down this month if Wagner isn't given the bullet.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

38 minutes ago, Ken Hairy said:

Yeah, but he didn't even try and hide it. Thought he would be here until the summer, but wouldn't be surprised to see him knocking Knappers door down this month if Wagner isn't given the bullet.

People keep saying Wagner hasn’t lost the dressing room, but you can’t watch Sara there or Sargent’s post-match interview last week and say there isn’t a wedge forming between coach and players.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 472]

2 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

People keep saying Wagner hasn’t lost the dressing room, but you can’t watch Sara there or Sargent’s post-match interview last week and say there isn’t a wedge forming between coach and players.

I actually feel a bit sorry for Wagner. I think he's very limited as a manager and I want to see us make the change, perhaps a caretaker for March to May then new manager at season end.

However he's yet another manager that has been lumbered with a bunch of Webber signings, not given everything he needs and then told to go and get results with them. Any manager worth their salt is going to come straight in and say "get me a defensive midfielder, preferably two, every other manager in the league has got one". 

Its really not just Wagner's ability, we literally don't have a defensive midfielder. Fassnacht probably the only player that Wagner specifically asked for, although admittedly he hasn't shown much. 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,857]

1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

I actually feel a bit sorry for Wagner. I think he's very limited as a manager and I want to see us make the change, perhaps a caretaker for March to May then new manager at season end.

However he's yet another manager that has been lumbered with a bunch of Webber signings, not given everything he needs and then told to go and get results with them. Any manager worth their salt is going to come straight in and say "get me a defensive midfielder, preferably two, every other manager in the league has got one". 

Its really not just Wagner's ability, we literally don't have a defensive midfielder. Fassnacht probably the only player that Wagner specifically asked for, although admittedly he hasn't shown much. 

I don't know, the signings this summer were wildly different from what Webber had brought in before and they do seem to fit into a Wagner style of play. I'm not sure how much influence Wagner had over the individual names, but the signings seem to have been made specifically for Wagner.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 472]

5 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

I don't know, the signings this summer were wildly different from what Webber had brought in before and they do seem to fit into a Wagner style of play. I'm not sure how much influence Wagner had over the individual names, but the signings seem to have been made specifically for Wagner.

At Huddersfield Wagner played Jonathan Hogg, a classic defensive midfielder and still at Huddersfield now, behind two physical midfielders in Billing and Mooy.

I struggle to believe that the decision not to sign one, or the failure to sign one, was to fit whatever Wagner wants to achieve.

Edited January 12 by JonnyJonnyRowe

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

I thought Sara was largely poor tonight, but is that because he's not happy, not as good as we think, or just played out of position?

I'm not sure we're making the best out of Sara and Nunez. Two clearly talented players but square pegs in round holes having to play so deep.

[jaberry2 556]

Sara has generally been far from his best for a while now. Wagner has mastered the art of ruining players

[Ian 1,136]

Would be very surprised if our number one target wasn't a proper DM and Barnes drops to the bench with Sara +1 further forward. I believe Wagner would rather play Sara further forward given how the season started, but we just don't have the personnel ATM.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 472]

1 minute ago, Ian said:

Would be very surprised if our number one target wasn't a proper DM and Barnes drops to the bench with Sara +1 further forward. I believe Wagner would rather play Sara further forward given how the season started, but we just don't have the personnel ATM.

That is exactly what I said should happen on another thread.

Solid DM in, Sara almost behind the striker, Nunez could hopefully play a bit more box-to-box also.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

35 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

At Huddersfield Wagner played Jonathan Hogg, a classic defensive midfielder and still at Huddersfield now, behind two physical midfielders in Billing and Mooy.

I struggle to believe that the decision not to sign one, or the failure to sign one, was to fit whatever Wagner wants to achieve.

Good point about the Hudds midfield… Sara about as close to a Billing clone as you can get. A Btec Bellingham if you will… all of those type players need a defensive mid in there with them to free them to show their swashbuckling best. Shame Hayden never worked out as he was the right profile of player we needed.

Seems it’s been our bogey position for years since Tetteys legs went. We just can’t quite find the right replacement. Much like Chelsea with strikers or Man U with keepers after Schmeichel left.

We are kind of caught between two styles it seems though. We don’t just want some thug in the middle as we’re trying to play a decent, technical game but really we end up regressing to counter attacking where a thug mopping things up would be ideal in there.

I genuinely think the attack is one of the best and strongest in depth in the division bar the newly relegated prem sides, just can’t quite find the right formula to settle on in the middle.

[CDMullins 446]

Horrible stuff,

Watching Nunez drop in between the centre halves and Sara been stationed 10-15 yards Infront of him.

Our two players most likely to hit a positive, proactive pass stood on the edge of our own box.

Edited January 12 by CDMullins

[Mason 47 1,403]

Looks well and truly jaded based on tonight. Couldn't really do anything right.

Happy with the win of course, but impossible not to feel that we have some brilliant assets not being utilised correctly. Sara, Sainz, Sargent and Rowe primarily doing what we used to call '****-laps' for the defense and very rarely getting to do any meaningful attacking. Even Nunez, who has now adapted pretty well to the Championship centre midfield slog, has lost that attackers glimmer to make it work.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

48 minutes ago, Tetteys Jig said:

Good point about the Hudds midfield… Sara about as close to a Billing clone as you can get. A Btec Bellingham if you will… all of those type players need a defensive mid in there with them to free them to show their swashbuckling best. Shame Hayden never worked out as he was the right profile of player we needed.

Seems it’s been our bogey position for years since Tetteys legs went. We just can’t quite find the right replacement. Much like Chelsea with strikers or Man U with keepers after Schmeichel left.

We are kind of caught between two styles it seems though. We don’t just want some thug in the middle as we’re trying to play a decent, technical game but really we end up regressing to counter attacking where a thug mopping things up would be ideal in there.

I genuinely think the attack is one of the best and strongest in depth in the division bar the newly relegated prem sides, just can’t quite find the right formula to settle on in the middle.

Unfortunately the only player since Tettey that’s looked good in that role was only a loan player who we never had a hope of signing.

[Tetteys Jig 830]

17 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Unfortunately the only player since Tettey that’s looked good in that role was only a loan player who we never had a hope of signing.

Not like they are nowhere to be found though…I guess we have Adam Forshaw this season but you’d think there would be someone from the lower leagues or abroad that our scouts could have found to shake things up.

[canarybubbles 1,944]

8 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

I thought Sara was largely poor tonight, but is that because he's not happy, not as good as we think, or just played out of position?

I'm not sure we're making the best out of Sara and Nunez. Two clearly talented players but square pegs in round holes having to play so deep.

It may also be that he's simply tired. In terms of midfield, he has had to carry this team a lot this season. We're asking him to be a DM, a water carrier, a box-to-box, and a creative AM all at the same time.

As well as the tiredness, though, when I've watched him in the last few matches, I get the impression that the joy has gone out of his game. It's sad to see because I think he's a marvellous player.

[mccanary 85]

12 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

It may also be that he's simply tired. In terms of midfield, he has had to carry this team a lot this season. We're asking him to be a DM, a water carrier, a box-to-box, and a creative AM all at the same time.

As well as the tiredness, though, when I've watched him in the last few matches, I get the impression that the joy has gone out of his game. It's sad to see because I think he's a marvellous player.

Tired???  A young , fit athlete working about 25 hours a week??

B0ll0cks

 

Let him do 50 hours on a building site , then you can say he might be Tired. 

Edited January 13 by mccanary

[canarybubbles 1,944]

20 minutes ago, mccanary said:

Tired???  A young , fit athlete working about 25 hours a week??

B0ll0cks

 

Let him do 50 hours on a building site , then you can say he might be Tired. 

a) There's mental tiredness as well as physical tiredness.

b) I doubt very much that he is working 25 hours a week. Players have to maintain their fitness as well as train and play games.

c) An obvious thing to say, but playing professional football is not the same as working on a building site. The rewards are much greater, but so is the mental pressure.

[mccanary 85]

5 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

a) There's mental tiredness as well as physical tiredness.

b) I doubt very much that he is working 25 hours a week. Players have to maintain their fitness as well as train and play games.

c) An obvious thing to say, but playing professional football is not the same as working on a building site. The rewards are much greater, but so is the mental pressure.

a) players have ample time to unwind and access to the best of services and facilities 

b)you're probably right.....less than 25 hours actual physical work 

c)the mental pressure on a guy running his own business is far in excess of playing a game you love.....

 

[canarycop 209]

8 hours ago, Mason 47 said:

Looks well and truly jaded based on tonight. Couldn't really do anything right.

Happy with the win of course, but impossible not to feel that we have some brilliant assets not being utilised correctly. Sara, Sainz, Sargent and Rowe primarily doing what we used to call '****-laps' for the defense and very rarely getting to do any meaningful attacking. Even Nunez, who has now adapted pretty well to the Championship centre midfield slog, has lost that attackers glimmer to make it work.

I must have been watching something completely different. I thought Sara was very good last night. The amount of interceptions he made in the defensive areas was unreal. Agree he should be further forward but he really is developing into a very special player. In Sara and Rowe we have two really good assets that if we can keep hold of will make the club a lot of money.

[nu_matik 167]

54 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

It may also be that he's simply tired. In terms of midfield, he has had to carry this team a lot this season. We're asking him to be a DM, a water carrier, a box-to-box, and a creative AM all at the same time.

As well as the tiredness, though, when I've watched him in the last few matches, I get the impression that the joy has gone out of his game. It's sad to see because I think he's a marvellous player.

To be fair, Sara has regularly talked about playing 50+ games every season for years in Brazil 

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,857]

11 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

At Huddersfield Wagner played Jonathan Hogg, a classic defensive midfielder and still at Huddersfield now, behind two physical midfielders in Billing and Mooy.

I struggle to believe that the decision not to sign one, or the failure to sign one, was to fit whatever Wagner wants to achieve.

Those three very rarely played together during Wagner's two full seasons at Huddersfield though. Over 2016/17 (when they were promoted) and 2017/18 (when they stayed up), Billing only started 21 of 87 possible league games including the playoffs, and was generally a backup to the other two.

Wagner may well have wanted a defensive midfielder last summer as well, but whether he did or he didn't, the players that were brought in generally seemed like 'Wagner players'.

[JonnyJonnyRowe 472]

2 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Those three very rarely played together during Wagner's two full seasons at Huddersfield though. Over 2016/17 (when they were promoted) and 2017/18 (when they stayed up), Billing only started 21 of 87 possible league games including the playoffs, and was generally a backup to the other two.

Wagner may well have wanted a defensive midfielder last summer as well, but whether he did or he didn't, the players that were brought in generally seemed like 'Wagner players'.

Hogg was the DM, and he played him.

[mrdi 373]

13 hours ago, Capt. Pants said:

I thought Sara was largely poor tonight, but is that because he's not happy, not as good as we think, or just played out of position?

I'm not sure we're making the best out of Sara and Nunez. Two clearly talented players but square pegs in round holes having to play so deep.

I’m really hoping a true deep-lying CM/CDM is at the top of the shopping list, so we can ‘release’ Sara from that part of the pitch and have him pulling strings at the sharp end again. 

I don’t think Wagner trusts anyone else to fulfil the role right now, so Sara’s literally being asked to take one for the team, so to speak. I also have a feeling that Wagner would prefer not to be leaning quite so heavily on Barnes in the 10 role, but until reinforcements arrive there are precious little viable alternatives. 

[debbie does norwich 13]

16 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

Clearly not happy with having to play a deeper role judging by that interview.

Which interview? Can someone post a clip please?

[Capt. Pants 4,277]

5 minutes ago, mrdi said:

I’m really hoping a true deep-lying CM/CDM is at the top of the shopping list, so we can ‘release’ Sara from that part of the pitch and have him pulling strings at the sharp end again. 

I don’t think Wagner trusts anyone else to fulfil the role right now, so Sara’s literally being asked to take one for the team, so to speak. I also have a feeling that Wagner would prefer not to be leaning quite so heavily on Barnes in the 10 role, but until reinforcements arrive there are precious little viable alternatives. 

Barnes did well last night, certainly put in a shift. Sargent looked way off on that sandpit of a pitch though so sadly Bashley will have to do the lions share of the running for a couple of more weeks yet.

Our transition from defence to attack still isn't great and I can't help thinking we have to get an extra man in midfield and that means Barnes will be sacrificed.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,857]

2 hours ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Hogg was the DM, and he played him.

Just not very often 😉

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,389]

The answer is sign a CDM to play alongside Nunez,, push Sara up. Sorted. 

[Ken Hairy 3,781]

2 hours ago, debbie does norwich said:

Which interview? Can someone post a clip please?

Was before the game on Sky last night,  directly asked how he's enjoying it playing deeper this season, long and short of it was 'not much'