Only 7 of the squad

[Tommo 51]

Are good enough to be playing at the level required for us to be mounting a serious promotion campaign. 
 

Gunn

Hanley

McLean

Sara

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent

 

of the above, I think 4 remain beyond this summer. Sara and Rowe will move on and if Sarge remains injury free, he will likely gain significant interest.

I am in the Wagner out camp and cannot fathom why we are not getting rid now. Financially it would seem getting rid now or in the summer will have little financial difference with it being a rolling 1 year contract.

is the silence from Knapper et al because

1. they still believe Wagner style of play is what we can be successful with if we get our major summer rebuild recruitment correct ? In which case he is avoiding coming out saying this as to not be publicly saying the current crop of players are not good enough to play this style of football.  

OR

2. is it that Cuesta is his sole target and only available in the summer ?

OR

3. Wagner is only 1 or 2 games away from being sacked ? 

 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,327]

Yes 

[The Raptor 1,211]

Not Hernandez? Who has actually won the championship twice? He's not good enough?

[splutcho 173]

7 minutes ago, The Raptor said:

Not Hernandez? Who has actually won the championship twice? He's not good enough?

No, he very clearly isn't.

[Conrad 170]

If you are right on those 7 being good enough for the championship, then if we were ever to be promoted again they would all need replacing. 

[Making Plans 936]

I don't know why anyone is still talking about a serious promotion campaign, at least not for this season.

In every respect, from Owner(s), Manager, Squad, Star Players, Financial Resources right through to our current Youth development, we are miles away from being either Promotion contenders and/or Premier League material.

We have had plenty of goes in the PL in recent years, often in a better allround situation than we have now, and every time we've been up there we have been found wanting in virtually every aspect of being competitive.

To their credit, and to put our efforts in perspective, when you consider some of the star players we had, Luton Town have given it a better go than we did.

Before mounting a serious promotion campaign we have so many issues and deficiencies to sort out and that process will take longer than what remains of this season and probably next season too.

 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 447]

1 hour ago, The Raptor said:

Not Hernandez? Who has actually won the championship twice? He's not good enough?

In the interests of balance, while he was effective in the first one in 2018-19, particularly off the bench, he registered 0 assists and 0 goals in 21 games in the 2020/21 season which is why in the summer after promotion he was ditched by Farke and sent out on loan.

Really he has had 1 productive season in 6 years, and that was 5 years ago.

[Macey 5]

1 hour ago, Tommo said:

Are good enough to be playing at the level required for us to be mounting a serious promotion campaign. 
 

Gunn

Hanley

McLean

Sara

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent

 

of the above, I think 4 remain beyond this summer. Sara and Rowe will move on and if Sarge remains injury free, he will likely gain significant interest.

I am in the Wagner out camp and cannot fathom why we are not getting rid now. Financially it would seem getting rid now or in the summer will have little financial difference with it being a rolling 1 year contract.

is the silence from Knapper et al because

1. they still believe Wagner style of play is what we can be successful with if we get our major summer rebuild recruitment correct ? In which case he is avoiding coming out saying this as to not be publicly saying the current crop of players are not good enough to play this style of football.  

OR

2. is it that Cuesta is his sole target and only available in the summer ?

OR

3. Wagner is only 1 or 2 games away from being sacked ? 

 

For me this is about right, but Hanley and McLean are not good enough in my opinion. If we get through Jan without losing Sara and Rowe we'll do well but come the summer we will lose them no doubt, as we'll have to sell, so where will that leave us then for next season! Up sh*t creek I would say.

I agree with @Making Plans though, this season is all but over in terms of promotion. Until everything is cleaned out top to bottom we will be in a mess for a while, that's just how it is now and I've personally giving up on any dreams of promotion, and to be honest don't care as much as I used to. Supported the club all my life, been a season ticket holder then stopped for a while but was on the waiting list but with how the club is being run now I just cba so I've got my deposit back. If the owners (specifically Delia) rants about the fans and comes across the way she does why should I care because to me it seems like they don't. The fans pour hard earned money into the club yet we don't seem to be respected like we once were. Yes Delia has done a lot for the club in the past but she should be able to recognise when its time for change, we've never been able to fully compete because of our model but I am proud that we have been able to somewhat to a point but its clear to see for everyone that it just cannot work anymore. For promotion and prem survival something needs to change, and that is how we are run so that we can afford those player that have the quality needed. 

[JonnyJonnyRowe 447]

On recent performances I think Nunez could feel hard done by not being included in this list.

Giannoulis I think has the quality in an attacking set up with stronger team mates.

Our main issue is that with everybody fit we can put out a decent XI for this level, but of course its not very often that everybody is fit, and we'd have absolutely no quality left on the bench at a time when teams can make more subs than ever.

 

[Tommo 51]

I agree that promotion is realistically over for us, even if we squeezed into 6th place (which really would demonstrate how poor the league is) we would more than likely fall short in the play off games. If we miraculously went up this season , I dread to think how the prem league season would go given that I only think we have 7 players good enough for a champ promotion push.

[GJL Mid-Norfolk Canary 1,776]

1 hour ago, The Raptor said:

Not Hernandez? Who has actually won the championship twice? He's not good enough?

No...in the same way Tettey isnt anymore

[Rolf Harris 31]

Why get rid of wagner when the season is a write off? Players will be released at the end of their contracts. Freeing up cash. Players will be sold to generate fund. Next year will be a rebuild and then we don't know. See if we can push on again or we will fade away and stagnate in this league. 

[Canaries north 151]

I can accept that we might not be able to get the manager we want at this moment in time, but even though this season is as good as over, we can't just drift like we are. Things are getting toxic and even a holding manager until the end of the season would be better. Could that be someone already at the club or a manager at the end of their career just to see us over. It could even be a manager out of work looking to get back in who would take half a season with us to show people what he can do. I'm sure there are plenty of managers out there who would take a job until the end of the season knowing that we have someone already lined up. 

[The Real Buh 3,444]

It’s a scandal that none of the senior leadership of Norwich City should survive. They all need to be sacked. All of them. 

[Tommo 51]

I agree we should be getting rid now but can only assume the outstanding candidate for Knapper is Carlos Cuesta or indeed someone else currently in employment. However them getting a good look at our squad and also convincing some now to stay beyond this summer would be better than continuing with this situation.

 

lack of quality out there in the free market - I would (controversially) say that out of anyone available I would personally have a look at Marsch , largely did a decent job at Leeds and pretty passionate bloke with an eye for attacking football. Don’t see Cooper dropping down leagues. 

[Indy 3,301]

4 hours ago, Tommo said:

Are good enough to be playing at the level required for us to be mounting a serious promotion campaign. 
 

Gunn

Hanley

McLean

Sara

Rowe

Sainz

Sargent

 

of the above, I think 4 remain beyond this summer. Sara and Rowe will move on and if Sarge remains injury free, he will likely gain significant interest.

I am in the Wagner out camp and cannot fathom why we are not getting rid now. Financially it would seem getting rid now or in the summer will have little financial difference with it being a rolling 1 year contract.

is the silence from Knapper et al because

1. they still believe Wagner style of play is what we can be successful with if we get our major summer rebuild recruitment correct ? In which case he is avoiding coming out saying this as to not be publicly saying the current crop of players are not good enough to play this style of football.  

OR

2. is it that Cuesta is his sole target and only available in the summer ?

OR

3. Wagner is only 1 or 2 games away from being sacked ? 

 

Wouldn’t it be great if Cuesta & Whiltshire are coming in the summer! I seriously doubt it!

But there is a decent Championship team here, Gunn,

Fischer, Warner, Thompkinson, McCallum

Sara, Nunez

Sainz, Gibbs, Rowe

Sargent.

I fully appreciate some are not there yet, out on loan and still learning, but I strongly believe both CB are as good as any we have now, Duffy, Baath & Gibson are really no better! Hanley, we can debate as he’s solid but makes mistakes too!

That midfield and attacking line should be superb at this level! Maybe we need a good run of games to see the best of this core next year!

Not forgetting McLean & Hanley will be here to help guide that team! Build on that with quality not old aging journeymen on big paydays not really motivated!

We have the core of a very good team, championship winning probably not but not far off top 6 next season with the right set up, coaches and additions!

[Petriix 2,842]

4 hours ago, Conrad said:

If you are right on those 7 being good enough for the championship, then if we were ever to be promoted again they would all need replacing. 

You might not have done it intentionally, but you've basically hit the nail on the head. In my opinion only Gunn, Sara and Rowe would get into any current Premier League squad and I doubt any would make the starting 11 for any top flight team; certainly not one with aspirations of finishing outside the bottom three. Rowe has huge potential but we're otherwise pretty threadbare compared to the quality we've sold on (or released). 

That's why many of us were so disappointed with our recruitment when we were last promoted. The fact that McLean is correctly regarded as one of our most important players shows how badly wrong Webber got it. We needed to be upgrading our central midfield. Onel was alway 'lively but limited' and we're totally lacking in the creativity and cohesion that players like Cantwell and Dowell brought to the team.

But, hey, there's a transfer window open. Maybe we could sign a couple of decent players to plug some of the gaps... 

[daly 505]

Fisher and Gibbs

You are joking 

[Indy 3,301]

2 minutes ago, daly said:

Fisher and Gibbs

You are joking 

Don’t write off Fisher, the lads young and I remember a very young Lewis having the same issues to start with when he broke through!

Gibbs like I said has been tried in so many positions and not really showed much in any of them! But there’s a lot of people in the game think he’s got a lot of potential so I’ll give him the benefit of doubt this season! Maybe a young coach with fresh ideas might give him one job to do and get the potential out of him!

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,327]

6 minutes ago, daly said:

Fisher and Gibbs

You are joking 

That's the spirit. Get behind the youngsters. 

[Indy 3,301]

2 minutes ago, GodlyOtsemobor said:

That's the spirit. Get behind the youngsters. 

They are the future, not Forshaw, Duffy, Barnes, Baath, Hwang! We need to get behind them the youngsters and they would hopefully get less slack then seasoned professionals on massive wages underachieving!

Edited January 7 by Indy

[JonnyJonnyRowe 447]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Don’t write off Fisher, the lads young and I remember a very young Lewis having the same issues to start with when he broke through!

Did Jamal Lewis ever stop having those issues?

One of the most over rated young players I can remember. Watford fans don't particularly rate him either.

[Indy 3,301]

Just now, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

Did Jamal Lewis ever stop having those issues?

One of the most over rated young players I can remember. Watford fans don't particularly rate him either.

Probably not but was good enough to gain us promotion and get a 12 million pound move so if Fisher does that I’d say great!

[unique 435]

19 minutes ago, Petriix said:

You might not have done it intentionally, but you've basically hit the nail on the head. In my opinion only Gunn, Sara and Rowe would get into any current Premier League squad and I doubt any would make the starting 11 for any top flight team; certainly not one with aspirations of finishing outside the bottom three. Rowe has huge potential but we're otherwise pretty threadbare compared to the quality we've sold on (or released). 

That's why many of us were so disappointed with our recruitment when we were last promoted. The fact that McLean is correctly regarded as one of our most important players shows how badly wrong Webber got it. We needed to be upgrading our central midfield. Onel was alway 'lively but limited' and we're totally lacking in the creativity and cohesion that players like Cantwell and Dowell brought to the team.

But, hey, there's a transfer window open. Maybe we could sign a couple of decent players to plug some of the gaps... 

Chasms, Petriix…..chasms…….

 

chasms……..

[JonnyJonnyRowe 447]

3 minutes ago, Indy said:

Probably not but was good enough to gain us promotion and get a 12 million pound move so if Fisher does that I’d say great!

You don't need your defenders to be all that good when you spend most of the game in the opposition half, hence why wise men (i.e. not Wagner) say that attack is the best form of defence.

[Indy 3,301]

1 minute ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

You don't need your defenders to be all that good when you spend most of the game in the opposition half, hence why wise men (i.e. not Wagner) say that attack is the best form of defence.

You’ve just answered why Fisher is our future, his forward play and delivery for someone this young is very good! He’s just signed from lower leagues and not that far off being a starter! Christ if people think he’s any worse than Stacey we really do have a problem next year!

All I said was give the lad a chance he’s played a handful of games at a fairly high level and doing ok!

[ged in the onion bag 855]

Not Hanley and definitely not McLean for me in that list and Sainz hasn’t done enough yet to suggest he’s consistent enough so 4!

Its kinda strange the some fans are getting excited at the mention of a coach who we’ve hardly heard of before just cos he’s from Arsenal.    Coaches don’t necessarily make good managers just like footballers don’t!      
 

All I can imagine is he’s likely to be better than the one we’ve got.   
 

Club still chasing promotion I see.  Clueless and utterly incompetent…. We are on a trajectory to L1, not the play-offs!   

[Unthink road 132]

3 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said:

You don't need your defenders to be all that good when you spend most of the game in the opposition half, hence why wise men (i.e. not Wagner) say that attack is the best form of defence.

This is a very valid point. However when we let in a few, the call is for a solid defence. I agree a more positive plan may produce a better performance/result. We did this under Farke, although the players we recruited suited his stye of play perfectly. Technically good players on the ball who understood their teammates. 

[Indy 3,301]

8 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Not Hanley and definitely not McLean for me in that list and Sainz hasn’t done enough yet to suggest he’s consistent enough so 4!

Its kinda strange the some fans are getting excited at the mention of a coach who we’ve hardly heard of before just cos he’s from Arsenal.    Coaches don’t necessarily make good managers just like footballers don’t!      
 

All I can imagine is he’s likely to be better than the one we’ve got.   
 

Club still chasing promotion I see.  Clueless and utterly incompetent…. We are on a trajectory to L1, not the play-offs!   

Can I just point out that both the top two teams in the championship recruited their manager / coaches from premiership teams coaches set up!

No appointment is ever guaranteed but our last two were big failed managers sacked and both taken us further down in quality & performances! 

Call me strange for wanting someone with a clean background and coming from a successful system with the youth set up! Someone Knapper knows well!

Those calling for Warnock are the ones who need to be mentioned!

Edited January 7 by Indy

[JonnyJonnyRowe 447]

25 minutes ago, Indy said:

You’ve just answered why Fisher is our future, his forward play and delivery for someone this young is very good! He’s just signed from lower leagues and not that far off being a starter! Christ if people think he’s any worse than Stacey we really do have a problem next year!

All I said was give the lad a chance he’s played a handful of games at a fairly high level and doing ok!

I wasn't questioning that at all, regarding Fisher, just pointing out that I don't think Jamal Lewis was all that good.

I hope the link to the Wolves right back on loan is genuine and that we let Fisher go and get more game time for the rest of this season though, looks like he needs it.