mastoola 183 Posted January 6 (edited) Is Wagner the worst manager we have ever had? i will add to my list of Idah and Hernandez as the worst threads Edited January 6 by mastoola 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821 Posted January 6 Pound for pound, he's no worse than his predecessor. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mastoola 183 Posted January 6 1 minute ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: Pound for pound, he's no worse than his predecessor. But his predecessor had much more timber Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fen Canary 828 Posted January 7 46 minutes ago, mastoola said: Is Wagner the worst manager we have ever had? i will add to my list of Idah and Hernandez as the worst threads I don’t rate him and won’t be sad when he’s replaced, but I think he’s just bang average mid table rather than being totally abject. Is he really that much worse than Roeder, Gunn, Megson, Grant, Rioch, Hamilton, Smith? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terminally Yellow 2,448 Posted January 7 (edited) 7 hours ago, mastoola said: Is Wagner the worst manager we have ever had? i will add to my list of Idah and Hernandez as the worst threads No, and your views are formed on recency bias. Bryan Gunn, Glenn Roeder and Brian Hamilton were worse. Peter Grant is also possibly worse but he has characteristics which might save him. As for Idah and Hernandez they don't even make the bottom 8 for their respective positions. Edited January 7 by Terminally Yellow Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Hairy 3,773 Posted January 7 No, which does show we've had some absolute stinkers. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 4,375 Posted January 9 Allan Russell 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Paul101 93 Posted January 9 Rodent by a country mile 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 446 Posted January 9 On 06/01/2024 at 23:47, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: Pound for pound, he's no worse than his predecessor. He is when you compare points per game in the second tier. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 446 Posted January 9 On 07/01/2024 at 07:41, Terminally Yellow said: Bryan Gunn, Glenn Roeder and Brian Hamilton were worse. Peter Grant is also possibly worse but he has characteristics which might save him. Take away Wagner's first 10 games (honeymoon period) and his win record since, in the past 36 games, is on part with the Hamilton's, Gunn's and Roeders of this world. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Branston Pickle 3,661 Posted January 9 23 minutes ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: Take away Wagner's first 10 games (honeymoon period) and his win record since, in the past 36 games, is on part with the Hamilton's, Gunn's and Roeders of this world. I know, why not take all his wins out - he then looks even worse!! As would anyone. If you were around for Hamilton and Grant it really is no contest. 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton canary 134 Posted January 9 On 07/01/2024 at 00:33, Fen Canary said: I don’t rate him and won’t be sad when he’s replaced, but I think he’s just bang average mid table rather than being totally abject. Is he really that much worse than Roeder, Gunn, Megson, Grant, Rioch, Hamilton, Smith? Now there's a bunch of.... & yes i've seen all there teams play. Add Wagner to them please! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,821 Posted January 9 1 hour ago, JonnyJonnyRowe said: He is when you compare points per game in the second tier. But Smith had a team that had just been relegated from the Premier League and were preseason title favourites. Wagner inherited a worse team and the realistic target was to reach the playoffs. I'd argue that, pound for pound, Wagner has not performed worse than Smith. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 446 Posted January 9 59 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said: I know, why not take all his wins out - he then looks even worse!! As would anyone. If you were around for Hamilton and Grant it really is no contest. Neither of those had a squad with a wage bill commiserate with a club receiving parachute payments. Gunn wins the incompetency contest for being a former top flight goalkeeper and then sanctioning the Thoeklitos signing. Brian Hamilton resigned with us in 17th, we are 3 points above 17th right now and the teams in 15th and 16th are in better form than us. I'm not arguing against Hamilton-era being disastrous, I'm saying that some are understating our current predicament and how rubbish things are right now. If things are any better then it is very marginal. If Josh Sargent was out for the season we'd be just as bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JonnyJonnyRowe 446 Posted January 9 26 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: But Smith had a team that had just been relegated from the Premier League and were preseason title favourites. Wagner inherited a worse team and the realistic target was to reach the playoffs. I'd argue that, pound for pound, Wagner has not performed worse than Smith. This is a bit like having an argument about whether it would be better to be punched in the face by Anthony Joshua or Deontey Wilder. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Barham Blitz 653 Posted January 10 4 hours ago, Robert N. LiM said: Allan Russell I'd completely forgotten about that bizarre little interlude. Our version of Tactics Tim Sherwood. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarybubbles 1,919 Posted January 10 (edited) 7 hours ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: But Smith had a team that had just been relegated from the Premier League and were preseason title favourites. Wagner inherited a worse team and the realistic target was to reach the playoffs. I'd argue that, pound for pound, Wagner has not performed worse than Smith. And add on that Smith did a lot to widen the gap that emerged between club and fans with his antagonistic comments. He had no more respect for the fans than Webber did, and it seems our current owners now feel the same way. Edited January 10 by canarybubbles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
canarycop 206 Posted January 10 I really thought, having seen the faces of the three amigos at Saturdays game that Wagner would have been gone by now. Maybe they are being told by Delia and Michael to toe the line. I can't really see any explanation as to why the club would purposely put themselves in a position where they would allow fans just to walk away which is what's happening now. Fans pay to be entertained and that ain't happening. Wagners style of football is awful because there isn't any style. I really struggle to work out what system we are trying to play. Things can only get better but they may get worse before that happens starting on Friday Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nexus_Canary 1,016 Posted January 10 On 06/01/2024 at 23:43, mastoola said: Is Wagner the worst manager we have ever had? i will add to my list of Idah and Hernandez as the worst threads No dean Smith still had the golden tea cup 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 2,551 Posted January 10 (edited) On 07/01/2024 at 00:47, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said: Pound for pound, he's no worse than his predecessor. I love how people desperately beat this drum to deflect on how badly they f*ked up in believing anybody could do better than Smith. 😆 Pound for pound, Wagner's tenure has been a bigger failure, sending us far lower without even the consolation of having a reputation elsewhere that can land us decent loan signings. Edited January 10 by littleyellowbirdie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 2,551 Posted January 10 (edited) 4 hours ago, canarybubbles said: And add on that Smith did a lot to widen the gap that emerged between club and fans with his antagonistic comments. He had no more respect for the fans than Webber did, and it seems our current owners now feel the same way. Rubbish. Fans were w**kers towards Smith well before he started showing any signs of it getting to him. The sort of sad people who think a manager clapping them is the most important thing just wouldn't give him a chance. But you got your way and now we have a properly cr*p manager. Well done. Give yourself a round of applause. Anyone who really thinks Smith was worse than Wagner should be just shutting the f*k up about everything right now in my view to save themselves from embarrassing themselves further. You're a self-opinionated idiot who can't bear that you were wrong. If it's any consolation, you're clearly not the only one. Maybe that's why your morale is so low. Edited January 10 by littleyellowbirdie 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 2,551 Posted January 10 On 07/01/2024 at 00:43, mastoola said: Is Wagner the worst manager we have ever had? i will add to my list of Idah and Hernandez as the worst threads To answer the question though, no I don't think he's the worst manager we've ever had; the players are clearly behind him, which hasn't been true of every manager we've had, and I'd argue real failure is when you've lost the confidence of your players. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feedthewolf 4,846 Posted January 10 Dear me, someone's starting early today! Stay classy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy 197 Posted January 10 12 hours ago, Branston Pickle said: I know, why not take all his wins out - he then looks even worse!! As would anyone. If you were around for Hamilton and Grant it really is no contest. A bit like when you give a urine sample (or pee on a wound to sterilise it) always take a mid-stream sample. If you go with the first bit of flow you get all the stale substances from under your foreskin (Smith's detritus). If you go with the last bit you get all the detritus the bottom of your bladder (the current omnishambles with no-one who has a clue in the boardroom). So yes, ignore the first and last 10 games when assessing any manager's abilities. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Feedthewolf 4,846 Posted January 10 Just now, Cowboy said: A bit like when you give a urine sample (or pee on a wound to sterilise it) always take a mid-stream sample. If you go with the first bit of flow you get all the stale substances from under your foreskin (Smith's detritus). If you go with the last bit you get all the detritus the bottom of your bladder (the current omnishambles with no-one who has a clue in the boardroom). So yes, ignore the first and last 10 games when assessing any manager's abilities. This is a beautiful analogy. Have you considered taking up motivational speaking? 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy 197 Posted January 10 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said: This is a beautiful analogy. Have you considered taking up motivational speaking? I do exactly that at the headquarters of a large, multi-national porcelain plumbing fixtures manufacturer. Edited January 10 by Cowboy 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
littleyellowbirdie 2,551 Posted January 10 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said: Dear me, someone's starting early today! Stay classy. Oh come on. Do you think Dean Smith is the worst manager we've had? People who believe that are clearly morons. And if they're saying it and don't believe it, they're even more stupid. ' Actually the sorts of idiots who keep on saying Smith is worse have probably helped Wagner keep his job. Now there's an own goal for you. Edited January 10 by littleyellowbirdie Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nuff Said 5,142 Posted January 10 44 minutes ago, Cowboy said: A bit like when you give a urine sample (or pee on a wound to sterilise it) always take a mid-stream sample. If you go with the first bit of flow you get all the stale substances from under your foreskin (Smith's detritus). If you go with the last bit you get all the detritus the bottom of your bladder (the current omnishambles with no-one who has a clue in the boardroom). So yes, ignore the first and last 10 games when assessing any manager's abilities. If I were to start a band in the next few months, I would strongly consider calling it Smith’s Detritus. 👍 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Robert N. LiM 4,375 Posted January 10 2 hours ago, Cowboy said: all the stale substances All the stale substances? The mind boggles Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cowboy 197 Posted January 10 26 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said: All the stale substances? The mind boggles Y'know... Cheese and pickle. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
