Newest immigration figures are in

[cambridgeshire canary 6,789]

Not quite the 700,000 thousand plus a year some predicted but quickly getting to it. And that's not counting illegal migration of course. (Which of course the Tories are screaming about solving but then not doing anything about it) Does make for some interesting reading.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingjune2023

Edited November 23, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Foxy2600 305]

Tories screaming about it, Socialists will encourage it….or maybe they have a cunning plan? Ignore it…

[Naturalcynic 653]

A greater number than the population of Manchester. Clearly not sustainable on an ongoing basis.

[TheRock 171]

That is quite alarming when cosidered against the fact there are only ~22.5 million homes in the UK for a population of ~70 million. That's a 1% increase in UK population without even adding births and illegal migration.

 

Yet Labour and Tories both seem to want 500,000 homes a year, something which has never been achieved, even in the 70's only 350,000 was achieved once when Councils were building their own mass stock. Anyone who works in the town planning and construction industry will tell you that 500,000 a year is impossible given the current planning system constraints, lack of labour and moderate interest rates meaning FTBs cannot get their first mortgages. Developers will only build as quick as they can sell, which anyone in the industry will tell you that even in an economic boom in the last 10 years, we couldn't even get near 250,000 new homes nationally which was the golden figure that Cameron's administration always wanted.

 

Put into perspective, unless Starmer/Sunak are plannning on building 3 (yes, three!) new cities the size of Newcastle every a year, we won't even cover the current net migration figures, let alone all other factors as to why new housing is typically needed (First time buyers, aging population, landlords/investors, divorces, social housing requirements, ending homelessness).

Edited November 23, 2023 by TheRock

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Any net migration figures for balance or is that too much for some?

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

36 minutes ago, TheRock said:

That is quite alarming when cosidered against the fact there are only ~22.5 million homes in the UK for a population of ~70 million. That's a 1% increase in UK population without even adding births and illegal migration.

 

Yet Labour and Tories both seem to want 500,000 homes a year, something which has never been achieved, even in the 70's only 350,000 was achieved once when Councils were building their own mass stock. Anyone who works in the town planning and construction industry will tell you that 500,000 a year is impossible given the current planning system constraints, lack of labour and moderate interest rates meaning FTBs cannot get their first mortgages. Developers will only build as quick as they can sell, which anyone in the industry will tell you that even in an economic boom in the last 10 years, we couldn't even get near 250,000 new homes nationally which was the golden figure that Cameron's administration always wanted.

 

Put into perspective, unless Starmer/Sunak are plannning on building 3 (yes, three!) new cities the size of Newcastle every a year, we won't even cover the current net migration figures, let alone all other factors as to why new housing is typically needed (First time buyers, aging population, landlords/investors, divorces, social housing requirements, ending homelessness).

Its time we looked at housing and what it needs to be.

First there is ownership versus rental.

Second there is empty houses.

Third there is where to build new houses.

Fourth what kind of houses should we build.

[Pyro Pete 1,916]

No, no, no, it's all the fault of those refugees crossing the channel.

Oh sorry, we don't actually refer to them as human beings anymore. It's 'Stop the boats' - not help refugees fleeing war/persecution etc.

Because if we blame refugees, and confuse stupid people by conflating asylum seekers with immigrants, no-one will notice our government's spectacular inability to manage government-controlled immigration.

[TheGunnShow 5,989]

Just checked for 2021 and births were 694,685, deaths were 666,659. Not much natural growth in the population, that's for sure.

There's definitely a need for much more affordable housing but there isn't remotely enough being built as others have said (not to mention some serious maintenance issues as the mould case in Rochdale showed, or indeed the relatively new block built in Woking that's been evacuated). There's also a need to massively upgrade our ability to handle asylum seekers with more speed as the UK has the second biggest backlog after Germany, and they take in a hell of a lot more. That backlog has skyrocketed and there's a problem with caseworkers not making too many decisions, presumably due to lack of experience and the complexity of the cases they have to handle.

Can't see beyond an increase in the pension age again or indeed increasing the number of years someone has to pay NI or similar before being able to claim a pension, although that's never going to be a vote winner.

Think the most stark statistics not being mentioned are these: in 1980 the average home cost around £20K, the average salary was around £6K, so the average house was around 3.5x an average income. Nowadays that home is worth around £240K, but the average salary is around £28K, so now around 8.5x average income. House prices have gone up eleven times over, wages around five times.

There's the key problem. 

[NFN FC 1,123]

Very unsustainable!

I think around 210,000 of these are Ukrainian refugees. 

 

[benchwarmer 625]

According to reports, the largest single group is overseas students.  The numbers have rocketed.  Why?  Because our universities are underfunded so they fund themselves by fees from students from abroad.  The government diverts our attention by focusing on boat people.

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by benchwarmer

[littleyellowbirdie 2,586]

Overseas students generate a lot of income. It's a service export industry for us. As for boat people v students, it's people who pay for themselves with recognised qualifications in the UK market v people the state has to spend money on housing, training, application processing etc.

[Naturalcynic 653]

47 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Any net migration figures for balance or is that too much for some?

Those are net migration figures, i.e. the balance between those leaving and those arriving.  

[king canary 7,655]

36 minutes ago, benchwarmer said:

According to reports, the largest single group is overseas students.  The numbers have rocketed.  Why?  Because our universities are underfunded so they fund themselves by fees from students from abroad.  The government diverts our attention by focusing on boat people.

 

 

25 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Overseas students generate a lot of income. It's a service export industry for us. As for boat people v students, it's people who pay for themselves with recognised qualifications in the UK market v people the state has to spend money on housing, training, application processing etc.

I work in this sector and this is a huge hot topic right now. Universities are underfunded (and often ran down by this Government) but there is no apatite for raising tuition fees, nor for great Government funding so international students are a key revenue generator.

The issue right now is that we're seeing less students from China, who historically don't bring many dependants with them and more from India and Nigeria, who do. So the more we see students from these markets then the higher these figures go.

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

Well - It seem FOM wasn't the problem !

Also the 30,000 or so 'small boats' are insignificant on these figures.

The weird thing is we still can't get the immigrants we want - dentists etc.

Also the net emigration is up. Go west young man. Brain drain?

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[king canary 7,655]

8 minutes ago, Yellow Fever said:

Well - It seem FOM wasn't the problem !

 

Yes, and going back to student numbers it actually hurts it because again, European students tend to bring less dependents.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,789]

1 hour ago, Pyro Pete said:

No, no, no, it's all the fault of those refugees crossing the channel.

Oh sorry, we don't actually refer to them as human beings anymore. It's 'Stop the boats' - not help refugees fleeing war/persecution etc.

Because if we blame refugees, and confuse stupid people by conflating asylum seekers with immigrants, no-one will notice our government's spectacular inability to manage government-controlled immigration.

The real question is how many of those in the boats are fleeing countries at war vs how many are economic migrants looking for free handouts?

Nevermind that the biggest issue with the boats is not the people in them but the human smugglers and various criminal gangs who are happy to charge ridiculous sums of money that many of those giving away will often end end up in debt with and who will often lie and try and spin fantastical tales of how Europes streets are beautiful utopias were money grows on trees and how the streets are paved with gold and all for very unsafe and illegal journeys that have sadly often ended up with many deaths but of course said smugglers don't care about any of that as they've already been paid

Edited November 23, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,586]

1 hour ago, king canary said:

Yes, and going back to student numbers it actually hurts it because again, European students tend to bring less dependents.

Do the student visa rules allow people to bring dependants? That's quite surprising.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,586]

1 hour ago, Yellow Fever said:

Well - It seem FOM wasn't the problem !

Also the 30,000 or so 'small boats' are insignificant on these figures.

The weird thing is we still can't get the immigrants we want - dentists etc.

Also the net emigration is up. Go west young man. Brain drain?

 

It's not insignificant in terms of processing costs legal costs, housing costs, training for employment... all out of the taxpayer's pocket.

Edited November 23, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Tetteys Jig 830]

What’s the master plan if we’re not prepared to take a surplus of migrants to make up for the shortfall caused by our lacklustre and aging population?

[king canary 7,655]

25 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Do the student visa rules allow people to bring dependants? That's quite surprising.

Yes, for PG courses as those are often studied by people who are older and have families etc.

The net economic impact is a huge positive still but the bigger the number the bigger the political football it becomes.

[Rock The Boat 1,332]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

The real question is how many of those in the boats are fleeing countries at war vs how many are economic migrants looking for free handouts?

Nevermind that the biggest issue with the boats is not the people in them but the human smugglers and various criminal gangs who are happy to charge ridiculous sums of money that many of those giving away will often end end up in debt with and who will often lie and try and spin fantastical tales of how Europes streets are beautiful utopias were money grows on trees and how the streets are paved with gold and all for very unsafe and illegal journeys that have sadly often ended up with many deaths but of course said smugglers don't care about any of that as they've already been paid

In many cases, the exploitation does not end on arrival at our shores. The traffickers will transport those who do not have the cash to pay for the bot journey with the provisio that once reaching the UK, the victims will be placed in jobs to pay off the debt owed to the traffickers. Those jobs often involve criminal activity such as maintaining dope farms, sex work and dodgy restaurants. The victims can be trapped for years.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,586]

1 hour ago, Rock The Boat said:

In many cases, the exploitation does not end on arrival at our shores. The traffickers will transport those who do not have the cash to pay for the bot journey with the provisio that once reaching the UK, the victims will be placed in jobs to pay off the debt owed to the traffickers. Those jobs often involve criminal activity such as maintaining dope farms, sex work and dodgy restaurants. The victims can be trapped for years.

That is one of the stronger arguments for just giving up trying to police illegal immigration, since the fear of being caught will be a factor in keeping them under the control of their handlers.

Maybe an amnesty and registration programme for those who declare themselves with proof of where they came from, indefinite leave to remain conditional on no later convictions and deportation if they do commit crimes, with an island off Scotland as a backstop to send them if they can't be deported for human rights issues.

Edited November 23, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

4 hours ago, Naturalcynic said:

Those are net migration figures, i.e. the balance between those leaving and those arriving.  

His headline said immigration. That was 1.2 and emigration 0.5.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,789]

2 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

What’s the master plan if we’re not prepared to take a surplus of migrants to make up for the shortfall caused by our lacklustre and aging population?

You know given the housing crisis and cost of living crisis which is in part being driven by very large numbers of people in this country (Both in terms of the native population and migrant population) would it really be that awful if our population declined? If anything if you ask me a very large population decline in this country while causing short term issues would in the long term possibly prove to have some benefical effects.

 

People do tend to forget this is a very small island. We are not exactly a Russia or America with vast hundreds of miles of wilderness just waiting for us to tear down and build upon. Can't keep on building forever.

Edited November 23, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Naturalcynic 653]

6 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

His headline said immigration. That was 1.2 and emigration 0.5.

Yes, you’re right, his headline did say immigration, although the graph made it clear that it was actually net migration.

[How I Wrote Elastic Man 1,192]

53 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

That is one of the stronger arguments for just giving up trying to police illegal immigration, since the fear of being caught will be a factor in keeping them under the control of their handlers.

Maybe an amnesty and registration programme for those who declare themselves with proof of where they came from, indefinite leave to remain conditional on no later convictions and deportation if they do commit crimes, with an island off Scotland as a backstop to send them if they can't be deported for human rights issues.

That sounds a lot like the FOM process 

It's a good idea, but I'm not sure if the UK has the administrational system to implement it properly 😔

[Yellow Fever 3,818]

Just an observation. We had much lower (3 or 4 times) net migration when we were in the SM. Also those that came where culturally similar and worked in jobs we needed and also tended not to bring their large families with them. They also happily went back later I.e. the Poles.

Perhaps if we rejoined the SM and its rules we could get back to the previous levels. Nevermind, I'm sure the Brexiteers got what they voted for 😉

Edited November 23, 2023 by Yellow Fever

[Hook's-Walk-Canary 213]

3 hours ago, Tetteys Jig said:

What’s the master plan if we’re not prepared to take a surplus of migrants to make up for the shortfall caused by our lacklustre and aging population?

I've been told by Lefties for years that the immigrants are coming here to do the jobs the British don’t want to do...

So I guess congratulations to the Tories for creating 672,000 new jobs in one year would be in order 🙃

[Well b back 3,274]

115,000 of those were via NHS and the care sector visa’s, as I have pointed out a number of times previously.

I guess voting Brexit, got rid of the Europeans and replaced them with yet higher numbers from, Asia, Africa and the America’s. I wonder if that was the Boris and Nigel plan ?

[Well b back 3,274]

7 minutes ago, Hook's-Walk-Canary said:

I've been told by Lefties for years that the immigrants are coming here to do the jobs the British don’t want to do...

So I guess congratulations to the Tories for creating 672,000 new jobs in one year would be in order 🙃

Not anymore as according to your mate Mogg we no longer should be growing fruit and vegetables, we should be importing it.