Where’s all the money gone?

[Midlands Yellow 4,085]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

Oh, if only the club was compelled to document where the money has gone and present this to the shareholders at a meeting. Perhaps we could call the document the annual accounts and the meeting the annual general meeting. There could even be questions. How about that as an idea?

Couldn’t you start typing in yellow now to embrace both colours of our unique kit. 

[BigFish 1,988]

2 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Couldn’t you start typing in yellow now to embrace both colours of our unique kit. 

OK

[Midlands Yellow 4,085]

1 minute ago, BigFish said:

OK

Fantastic reply, respect. 

[Duncan Edwards 2,271]

24 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Where are these private jets in the accounts? When did they buy the club for 1 pound? Just because you make something up doesn’t mean it’s true…

So Watling walleted a quid? Essex paid 25,000 times that for a season ticket he hates. 

Anyway, if she’d juster stucker bored outside sayern 

 

FORCE HAIL 

 

It all Coulder bin so diffrunt. Like when you chaps were jealous of Mucus. 

[nutty nigel 7,645]

26 minutes ago, Duncan Edwards said:

 

 

It all Coulder bin so diffrunt. Like when you chaps were jealous of Mucus. 

True story

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by nutty nigel

[PurpleCanary 5,586]

Where has the money gone? On running a football club.

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,414]

16 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Where has the money gone? On running a football club.

Lies! We have to be able to play football to be called a football club 😂

[Indy 3,322]

16 hours ago, PurpleCanary said:

Where has the money gone? On running a football club.

Personally I now think it should be each minority share holders perk for buying these shares not only to have a free season ticket with a certain amount of shares but to have ten games a season where they get to be in the starting 11 on the pitch! They’ve paid to own the club and should be allowed to play on their pitch in front of their fans! Essex to start up front on Saturday!

[Cowboy 204]

17 hours ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Couldn’t you start typing in yellow now to embrace both colours of our unique kit. 

Or white, which would be nice! 😀

[Barham Blitz 664]

5 minutes ago, Indy said:

Personally I now think it should be each minority share holders perk for buying these shares not only to have a free season ticket with a certain amount of shares but to have ten games a season where they get to be in the starting 11 on the pitch! They’ve paid to own the club and should be allowed to play on their pitch in front of their fans! Essex to start up front on Saturday!

I suspect negotiations with his agent may prove difficult ...

Although it did put me in mind of this classic 'Arry Redknapp yarn which I always thought he had made up (or at least had grown in the telling,) but which turns out did actually happen.

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2013/sep/05/harry-redknapp-played-fan-west-ham

[hogesar 9,760]

23 minutes ago, Indy said:

Personally I now think it should be each minority share holders perk for buying these shares not only to have a free season ticket with a certain amount of shares but to have ten games a season where they get to be in the starting 11 on the pitch! They’ve paid to own the club and should be allowed to play on their pitch in front of their fans! Essex to start up front on Saturday!

If he misses the goal as much as he misses the point we're in for a real tough watch...

[Indy 3,322]

6 minutes ago, hogesar said:

If he misses the goal as much as he misses the point we're in for a real tough watch...

We love him really! He has his views based on his expectation and it just doesn’t sit right with me…

[essex canary 506]

42 minutes ago, Indy said:

Personally I now think it should be each minority share holders perk for buying these shares not only to have a free season ticket with a certain amount of shares but to have ten games a season where they get to be in the starting 11 on the pitch! They’ve paid to own the club and should be allowed to play on their pitch in front of their fans! Essex to start up front on Saturday!

As I won't be there on Saturday and I am denied use of the buy back scheme, the first thing they could try to negotiate is how to make good use of my seat. Not that it is important given the number of gaps at the 4 home games to date that I have attended and presumably no-one is able to claim buybacks?

If they switched themselves on they would operate like Shalke04. Sell all the seats at the start of the season then create a swap window for fans 2 weeks before the game that would still result in 10% availability for casuals. Maybe a full ground at fortress Carrow Road would be the outcome? Failing that our ED could sound out Fortuna Dusseldorf's plan for free stadium attendance for all fans funded by corporate sponsorship. The Germans do it better.

[Indy 3,322]

2 minutes ago, essex canary said:

As I won't be there on Saturday and I am denied use of the buy back scheme, the first thing they could try to negotiate is how to make good use of my seat. Not that it is important given the number of gaps at the 4 home games to date that I have attended and presumably no-one is able to claim buybacks?

If they switched themselves on they would operate like Shalke04. Sell all the seats at the start of the season then create a swap window for fans 2 weeks before the game that would still result in 10% availability for casuals. Maybe a full ground at fortress Carrow Road would be the outcome? Failing that our ED could sound out Fortuna Dusseldorf's plan for free stadium attendance for all fans funded by corporate sponsorship. The Germans do it better.

I can’t disagree with you there and agree Germans generally do it better! 😂👍

[Duncan Edwards 2,271]

Cambridge

Burnley

Kings Lynn

Schalke

Fortuna Dusseldorf 

 

More clubs than Mousehold Pitch and Putt… 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Duncan Edwards
😉😂

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

19 hours ago, BigFish said:

Oh, if only the club was compelled to document where the money has gone and present this to the shareholders at a meeting. Perhaps we could call the document the annual accounts and the meeting the annual general meeting. There could even be questions. How about that as an idea?

That is after the horse has bolted. I am asking where the money has gone we accrued at the start of the season.

Edited September 25, 2023 by keelansgrandad

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

So if its running a football club then we are paying Waitrose prices for Farm Foods products.

[vos 155]

5 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

That is after the horse has bolted. I am asking where the money has gone we accrued at the start of the season.

I am assuming you are talking about transfer sales monies. Apart from a few exceptions nobody in football has any money and so most deals are in gradual instalments - including Sky  - and talking of which our income from them is now considerably down.

[nutty nigel 7,645]

It doesn't seem to matter how much money there is in football it all goes down the same drain. Fans then demand more of other people's money so they can have bigger more shiny drains...

[hogesar 9,760]

35 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

That is after the horse has bolted. I am asking where the money has gone we accrued at the start of the season.

Well, we probably don't have it yet.

[chicken 2,649]

1 hour ago, keelansgrandad said:

So if its running a football club then we are paying Waitrose prices for Farm Foods products.

If only it was that simple eh? 

Not only that, it's pretty false. 

When we're in the premier league we're paying little in terms of transfer fees, certainly not premier league typical transfer fees. Even at £10m you are looking at pretty bang average. £8.5m for a striker? Likely to be a gamble or a good championship level striker.

We haven't even spent more than £10m yet.

If you mean in wages - yes and no. Again though, we have to make ourselves attractive to players and one way of doing that is better wages.

I mean, either the money is being robbed off us or we are actually spending it on trying to make things work on the pitch? Our wage bill has been cut, we shall see by how much next summer, but likely to be in line with the loss of parachute payments and having to work on a smaller budget going forwards. I believe Gibson was the highest earner after Pukki and Krul so it's likely his contract will not be renewed unless he signs on reduced terms. That they haven't done that already, to me, suggests he is likely on his way next summer.

The difficulty isn't that we have bought Farm Foods for Waitrose Prices,  it really doesn't work like that. Food/groceries can't improve or realise potential - they are what they are. We have to shop in a sort of middle ground, like we have done since promotion under Worthington but actively spoken about and promoted under Lambert. Those imbetweenies. Even more so now our market is a bit more limited. We need to find players before other clubs do - difficult, or a player that other clubs weren't prepared to take a gamble on yet like Sara or Buendia.

 

[By Hook or Ian crook 917]

Wages is where a majority of the money has gone if the accounts are correct. 

[essex canary 506]

33 minutes ago, By Hook or Ian crook said:

Wages is where a majority of the money has gone if the accounts are correct. 

Correct. Our transfer fees were low by lower PL standards even but not really so for our wages.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

2 hours ago, hogesar said:

Well, we probably don't have it yet.

That is fine. I have just been asking where it has gone. If we don't have it, is that why we have apparently borrowed?

[essex canary 506]

7 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

That is fine. I have just been asking where it has gone. If we don't have it, is that why we have apparently borrowed?

We effectively mortgaged the parachute payments and initially suggested we would pay back from that source. In reality it would not be possible to reduce the wage bill quickly enough to do that hence Norfolk Group"s loans.

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

1 hour ago, chicken said:

If only it was that simple eh? 

Not only that, it's pretty false. 

When we're in the premier league we're paying little in terms of transfer fees, certainly not premier league typical transfer fees. Even at £10m you are looking at pretty bang average. £8.5m for a striker? Likely to be a gamble or a good championship level striker.

We haven't even spent more than £10m yet.

If you mean in wages - yes and no. Again though, we have to make ourselves attractive to players and one way of doing that is better wages.

I mean, either the money is being robbed off us or we are actually spending it on trying to make things work on the pitch? Our wage bill has been cut, we shall see by how much next summer, but likely to be in line with the loss of parachute payments and having to work on a smaller budget going forwards. I believe Gibson was the highest earner after Pukki and Krul so it's likely his contract will not be renewed unless he signs on reduced terms. That they haven't done that already, to me, suggests he is likely on his way next summer.

The difficulty isn't that we have bought Farm Foods for Waitrose Prices,  it really doesn't work like that. Food/groceries can't improve or realise potential - they are what they are. We have to shop in a sort of middle ground, like we have done since promotion under Worthington but actively spoken about and promoted under Lambert. Those imbetweenies. Even more so now our market is a bit more limited. We need to find players before other clubs do - difficult, or a player that other clubs weren't prepared to take a gamble on yet like Sara or Buendia.

 

Yes but I am not discussing potential or selliing on. I am talking about what Saturdays are about. Watching your team playing and hopefully winning. I am told it was because of the money we spent in the EPL that has had a knock on effect. And that it has led to a big player's wages account.

So in fact it is portraying a picture that we aren't this wonderfully well run club defying the odds. We have apparently bought too high and sold too low. Sacked a manager who performed well but couldn't sustain EPL membership because we could only afford bang average in a league that demands more than that. And paid wages for players that simply aren't worth it. Sara is treated special by many of the supporters. But lets be honest he isn't in the same class as Hucks, Wes or Emi. And not even Vrancic to me.

And much of this on the watch of an SD who doesn't to be here.

[chicken 2,649]

12 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

Yes but I am not discussing potential or selliing on. I am talking about what Saturdays are about. Watching your team playing and hopefully winning. I am told it was because of the money we spent in the EPL that has had a knock on effect. And that it has led to a big player's wages account.

So in fact it is portraying a picture that we aren't this wonderfully well run club defying the odds. We have apparently bought too high and sold too low. Sacked a manager who performed well but couldn't sustain EPL membership because we could only afford bang average in a league that demands more than that. And paid wages for players that simply aren't worth it. Sara is treated special by many of the supporters. But lets be honest he isn't in the same class as Hucks, Wes or Emi. And not even Vrancic to me.

And much of this on the watch of an SD who doesn't to be here.

Then your analogy is even worse!

Again a few folks, like yourself, use "well run club" when referring to the footballing side but as a phrase, represents the club as a whole. The club IS well run. We have had some of the poorest owners in the top two tiers for many years now. Whilst we watch other clubs of varying comparative sides do worse with more backing, or better, we have considerably out-performed our transfer outlays especially if you look at net spend.

If you listen only to people who say that expenditure is a guarantee for success and then use that as the basis to determine what a well run club is, you'll likely be coming up with all of the wrong answers.

As a club, we actually demonstrate more success with lower cost gambles. If you look back at the players  - post millennium - that have broken our transfer record, they have been very hit and miss. Not as individuals but as a group - so whilst Ashton was a hit, we had several like Naismith, Rashica, Van Wolfswinkel etc who never quite made the grade with us so you have the evidence you need to know that measure is heavily flawed. It certainly wasn't the majority view.

On top of that, you can never say that cheap players are going to be flops either, or old players. Our recent success has been built upon players exactly like that.

When we went up under Farke the first time, we had a squad of maybe players or players already considered on the rubbish heap. Kruls' career was seen to be on the wane, injury amongst other factors saw him seen as a back up keeper and not a first choice. Pukki's career had long since taken him out of any respectably ranked European top flight, he'd flopped pretty much everywhere he had been. Tribal was so good he was released. Stiepermann wasn't playing top flight football in Germany. Zimmermann was on the brink of quitting football altogether such was the lack of interest in him as a player - in his early 20s! Rhodes' reputation, even then, was on the decline. McLean was cheap. Klose was our most expensive player and had spent most of his time crocked, Hanley was the 2nd most expensive I think.

That's before you revisit the best Norwich City freebie 11. Dublin, Nedergaard, Edworthy etc etc etc.

Anyone who has been supporting this club for more than 20yrs should well and truly know this by now. Even Martin Peters came to us with the general view being that his career was on a downward trajectory. Some would argue the same about Huckerby.

There are so many more factors in whether or not a player is a success. I think someone said during the summer that Webber said something about "moneyball" which is that the stats are all great up until a point, even interviews and getting to know players through introductions won't tell you the other key aspects. One is footballing intelligence, as in, can they take on / absorb new information so they can be developed, and how quickly can they do that? Especially if routinely drilled to play a certain, rigid, way for several years.

And that's before you consider language barriers, culture shock, home sickness, just not warming to an area or your new surroundings... hell, personal things like splitting up with a partner and no longer wanting to be in the same postcode, feeling alone without your support network. Getting on with team mates - many of us will have experienced jobs or roles where we just don't feel like we fit in. And as some people who come to Wolfwinkels defense say, brought in to do a job and then used completely differently to the way that they have carved a career out.

On paper, largely, ALL signings look good for various reasons, but they can't all be successes. And as we have found recently, many can be brilliant successes at this level but fail to translate that into the next level. Some might even say that extends to the head coach too. 

[NeymarSmith 133]

I reckon in years to come, we all will look back on the webbers particularly Stuart, and regard them in the light of the complete charlatans that they are, and because of their business inside the club, how worse we are for it

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 hours ago, chicken said:

Then your analogy is even worse!

Again a few folks, like yourself, use "well run club" when referring to the footballing side but as a phrase, represents the club as a whole. The club IS well run. We have had some of the poorest owners in the top two tiers for many years now. Whilst we watch other clubs of varying comparative sides do worse with more backing, or better, we have considerably out-performed our transfer outlays especially if you look at net spend.

If you listen only to people who say that expenditure is a guarantee for success and then use that as the basis to determine what a well run club is, you'll likely be coming up with all of the wrong answers.

As a club, we actually demonstrate more success with lower cost gambles. If you look back at the players  - post millennium - that have broken our transfer record, they have been very hit and miss. Not as individuals but as a group - so whilst Ashton was a hit, we had several like Naismith, Rashica, Van Wolfswinkel etc who never quite made the grade with us so you have the evidence you need to know that measure is heavily flawed. It certainly wasn't the majority view.

On top of that, you can never say that cheap players are going to be flops either, or old players. Our recent success has been built upon players exactly like that.

When we went up under Farke the first time, we had a squad of maybe players or players already considered on the rubbish heap. Kruls' career was seen to be on the wane, injury amongst other factors saw him seen as a back up keeper and not a first choice. Pukki's career had long since taken him out of any respectably ranked European top flight, he'd flopped pretty much everywhere he had been. Tribal was so good he was released. Stiepermann wasn't playing top flight football in Germany. Zimmermann was on the brink of quitting football altogether such was the lack of interest in him as a player - in his early 20s! Rhodes' reputation, even then, was on the decline. McLean was cheap. Klose was our most expensive player and had spent most of his time crocked, Hanley was the 2nd most expensive I think.

That's before you revisit the best Norwich City freebie 11. Dublin, Nedergaard, Edworthy etc etc etc.

Anyone who has been supporting this club for more than 20yrs should well and truly know this by now. Even Martin Peters came to us with the general view being that his career was on a downward trajectory. Some would argue the same about Huckerby.

There are so many more factors in whether or not a player is a success. I think someone said during the summer that Webber said something about "moneyball" which is that the stats are all great up until a point, even interviews and getting to know players through introductions won't tell you the other key aspects. One is footballing intelligence, as in, can they take on / absorb new information so they can be developed, and how quickly can they do that? Especially if routinely drilled to play a certain, rigid, way for several years.

And that's before you consider language barriers, culture shock, home sickness, just not warming to an area or your new surroundings... hell, personal things like splitting up with a partner and no longer wanting to be in the same postcode, feeling alone without your support network. Getting on with team mates - many of us will have experienced jobs or roles where we just don't feel like we fit in. And as some people who come to Wolfwinkels defense say, brought in to do a job and then used completely differently to the way that they have carved a career out.

On paper, largely, ALL signings look good for various reasons, but they can't all be successes. And as we have found recently, many can be brilliant successes at this level but fail to translate that into the next level. Some might even say that extends to the head coach too. 

No we are never going to agree because we have different attitudes about what we want or expect from our club. You will bring facts and data to support your view and I wouls be happy to do the same with my argument but it will be to no avail. To be brutally honest I think I have passion and you have reason.

[chicken 2,649]

57 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

No we are never going to agree because we have different attitudes about what we want or expect from our club. You will bring facts and data to support your view and I wouls be happy to do the same with my argument but it will be to no avail. To be brutally honest I think I have passion and you have reason.

And again, you are wrong.

Reason and passion are not mutually exclussive. Equally, 'facts' rarely line up 100% with 'passion' because relying purely upon emotion means you introduce an element that is unpredicatble and somtimes, because we are human, illogical.

What I can do is seperate the two.

If you say the club is badly run, you are talking about the whole kit and caboodle. That is evidentially incorrect when you take into account our model and what we have achieved with it.

I don't think you'll find we are any less passionate about football and on the footballing front we have, and will continue to agree on many aspects.

It's just being mature enough to understand that we don't have to agree on all of the aspects yet we can still agree on where we want the club to be.

Often the issue with some tools on here, and you know I don't mean you kg, is that if you don't agree with them 100% you don't agree with them at all.

Hence accusations of being pro-Delia or a happy clapper despite evidence to the contrary etc.