On the subject of homophobia in football

[cambridgeshire canary 6,735]

Seems a letter was handed out at Wolves to the stewards. Now I know that Wolverhampton is not exactly a place known for being an intellectual hotspot but I will give them some credit for "brighton take it up the bum" as clearly that one took them all day to come up with. Did they steal these from a kids playground in 1970?

Edited August 21, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Midlands Yellow 3,995]

This is a strange post but could keep the night lively. 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,735]

5 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

This is a strange post but could keep the night lively. 

You gotta do something to keep the week before the next match entertaining 😉

[GenerationA47 752]

Good on them

Can’t help pointing out that it almost reads like a hymn sheet (or should that be Him sheet)

[The Real Buh 3,444]

Apart from stuff like this being obviously really bad and in some cases classified as hate speech and illegal it’s always wound me up that it’s just so unoriginal. Racist chants, homophobic chants etc it’s just all very low hanging fruit for the generic lowlife very unintelligent people.

Make offensive chants original again. Chanting about being gay at Brighton fans or whatever is just lame as hell.

Come up with a chant thats so original and cuts so deep they can’t help but applaud you. That should always be the aim.

[Yobocop 1,099]

Not norwich related and the OP is not well placed to discuss issues of this nature 

[South Sider 114]

4 minutes ago, Yobocop said:

Not norwich related and the OP is not well placed to discuss issues of this nature 

the forum states: Matches, tactics, players, rivals, gossip and much more

i would say this falls under the much more category

also hompohobia is always a conversation worth having, until it exists no more

[Yobocop 1,099]

Just now, South Sider said:

the forum states: Matches, tactics, players, rivals, gossip and much more

i would say this falls under the much more category

also hompohobia is always a conversation worth having, until it exists no more

I don’t disagree (probably falls under the ‘much more’ category)

 I would completely be on board with discussing this very important issue if it weren’t for the fact the OP started it as they have no actual interest in anyone’s opinion and only posts items they think will spark conversation 

[South Sider 114]

Just now, Yobocop said:

I don’t disagree (probably falls under the ‘much more’ category)

 I would completely be on board with discussing this very important issue if it weren’t for the fact the OP started it as they have no actual interest in anyone’s opinion and only posts items they think will spark conversation 

i agree the poster is a bit of an idiot, but if it sparks this particular conversation, what is the issue?

[Yobocop 1,099]

13 minutes ago, South Sider said:

i agree the poster is a bit of an idiot, but if it sparks this particular conversation, what is the issue?

There isn’t one at all 

[If wed kept Howie.. 208]

I'm not happy with the mixed fonts, inconsistent formatting and structure of that.

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

Might as well lob this in.
 

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,931]

Have we reached the point where society can't do any more to change these people? If anyone hasn't got it by now then surely they never will? 

[canarybubbles 1,923]

3 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

Have we reached the point where society can't do any more to change these people? If anyone hasn't got it by now then surely they never will? 

When we have a government whose only hope of re-election is stoking culture wars, I imagine these people feel encouraged in their bigotry.

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,432]

Society makes things complicated. 

Surely the answer is for people to be told to stop being offensive. Offensive is now catagorised. Some of the catagories are decided by lobbying groups rather than decency . 

On Sunday , West Ham fans were chanting “Sterling , your a c*nt” , in unison. Nothing said. Not many people would argue that is very offensive. Others would even say it’s part of football (god help us) 

If they had shouted “Sterling your a *insert description based on race here* c*nt” , there would be a public outcry . 
 

If you shout at a Brighton fan “your shàgging your boyfriend” - up goes the balloon. 
Shout at a Norwich fan “your shàgging your sister” it doesn’t get a mention. 
 

Decency might be the answer. You don’t actually need to say any of it. Why didn’t the Wolves leaflet say that? 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Graham Paddons Beard

[Nuff Said 5,145]

11 hours ago, The Real Buh said:

Apart from stuff like this being obviously really bad and in some cases classified as hate speech and illegal it’s always wound me up that it’s just so unoriginal. Racist chants, homophobic chants etc it’s just all very low hanging fruit for the generic lowlife very unintelligent people.

Make offensive chants original again. Chanting about being gay at Brighton fans or whatever is just lame as hell.

Come up with a chant thats so original and cuts so deep they can’t help but applaud you. That should always be the aim.

This. As I was reading it I thought most of them wouldn’t even have made it into The Inbetweeers. 

[Nuff Said 5,145]

18 minutes ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Decency might be the answer. You don’t actually need to say any of it. Why didn’t the Wolves leaflet say that? 

The leaflet was to be given to stewards and was about spotting and reporting homophobic chants and behaviour, not what to do to make it better.

[Capt. Pants 4,246]

11 hours ago, South Sider said:

i agree the poster is a bit of an idiot, but if it sparks this particular conversation, what is the issue?

I suppose it's a bit of an issue if you treat it as clickbait to get likes on a football forum. 

The whole OP was a bit weird really.

 

[canarybubbles 1,923]

This is a complicated issue. Of course hate speech should be stamped out and people should just show common decency towards other people. But also I don't want to live in a world where I police myself before I say anything. Firstly, because that feels uncomfortable and unnatural and dishonest. But also because merely having a list of words or expressions that are verboten changes nothing. Except for the most rabid or stupid among them, racists, misogynists and homophobes are well aware of what they can say and not say in public, but that doesn't change their attitude, it merely hides it.

I don't know where the balance lies, but personally I think a culture that produced shows like Till Death Do Us Part and Rising Damp was much healthier in many ways than the sanitised public culture we have now where we pretend that the whole problem is a tiny hidden minority of bad people while the rest of us 'don't have a racist bone in our bodies' as the cliché goes.

[sgncfc 1,228]

When I'm driving, it's possible I might call someone a bald-headed ****. I don't really think he's a ****. He's just a driver making a mistake who happens to be bald. I might actually get on quite well with him and we might enjoy a pint together. I don't hate him.

The fact that I call him a bald-headed **** says more about me than about him. 

It isn't hate speech, it's just me being an idiot. 

Football fans are idiots, mostly. Sometimes not though. I don't have an issue with the Sterling chant for instance. 

[Branston Pickle 3,661]

7 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Society makes things complicated. 

Surely the answer is for people to be told to stop being offensive. Offensive is now catagorised. Some of the catagories are decided by lobbying groups rather than decency . 

On Sunday , West Ham fans were chanting “Sterling , your a c*nt” , in unison. Nothing said. Not many people would argue that is very offensive. Others would even say it’s part of football (god help us) 

If they had shouted “Sterling your a *insert description based on race here* c*nt” , there would be a public outcry . 
 

If you shout at a Brighton fan “your shàgging your boyfriend” - up goes the balloon. 
Shout at a Norwich fan “your shàgging your sister” it doesn’t get a mention. 
 

Decency might be the answer. You don’t actually need to say any of it. Why didn’t the Wolves leaflet say that? 

Well we all know about that arsehole from Everton when our fans were incorrectly accused of racist chanting.   I did find it odd/hard to properly justify to non-football people that the actual chant was “you fat ****”, as if that’s a perfectly normal thing to say to someone. 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,432]

22 minutes ago, sgncfc said:

When I'm driving, it's possible I might call someone a bald-headed ****. I don't really think he's a ****. He's just a driver making a mistake who happens to be bald. I might actually get on quite well with him and we might enjoy a pint together. I don't hate him.

The fact that I call him a bald-headed **** says more about me than about him. 

It isn't hate speech, it's just me being an idiot. 

Football fans are idiots, mostly. Sometimes not though. I don't have an issue with the Sterling chant for instance. 

Cant argue with any of that . I'll be at Carrow Road calling the Ref, ITFC fans, some opposition  player time wasting, everything under the sun. 

My point is more that some offensive comments now have a societal weight whereas others are apparently less offensive. Training the Wolves stewards what to watch for when you are playing Brighton with 100% emphasis on homophobia adds to the issue. Will the Wolves stewards be trained in chants involving incest when Norwich next play there ,or male prostitution when Chelsea turn up, or references to the Munich air disaster for Man Utd? 

 

[Graham Paddons Beard 2,432]

29 minutes ago, Branston Pickle said:

Well we all know about that arsehole from Everton when our fans were incorrectly accused of racist chanting.   I did find it odd/hard to properly justify to non-football people that the actual chant was “you fat ****”, as if that’s a perfectly normal thing to say to someone. 

Interesting point BP. We were Ok saying "fat" but not "black"  (even though the real issue was, as you say the t0sser that worked at Everton and went out of his way to cause trouble for us- I was there that day and it was always Fat , and clearly aimed at Rooney ) .

Today however Body Shaming could come into play. 

Might be best to just support our own players. I must remember that if I ever see Luke Chambers play again.  

 

[Greavsy 2,415]

Everyone is offended by something these days......

[The Bristol Nest 516]

2 hours ago, Graham Paddons Beard said:

Cant argue with any of that . I'll be at Carrow Road calling the Ref, ITFC fans, some opposition  player time wasting, everything under the sun. 

My point is more that some offensive comments now have a societal weight whereas others are apparently less offensive. Training the Wolves stewards what to watch for when you are playing Brighton with 100% emphasis on homophobia adds to the issue. Will the Wolves stewards be trained in chants involving incest when Norwich next play there ,or male prostitution when Chelsea turn up, or references to the Munich air disaster for Man Utd? 

 

Hopefully