Strong powerful side this season

[Yellow Green Army 237]

I’m still very concerned with the lack of creativity in this squad but one thing we should not be unlike the last few seasons is lightweight and powderpuff.

Looking at the squad so far we have: Gunn, Hanley, Gibson, Omobamidele, Duffy, Stacey, Barnes, Sargent, Sorenson, Idah, McClean, Sara, Giannoulis all around the 6ft plus mark. Most of these will be regular starters week in week out and with Wagners up and at them approach we should be no pushovers. Plus we should be much more of a threat from set pieces this season with Duffy, Stacey and Barnes hopefully chipping in with some goals and assists.

I don’t believe we are too far away from assembling a really strong competitive squad for the season ahead. 2 or 3 quality loan/permanent additions and we will have a chance. 

[Captain Holt 522]

14 minutes ago, Yellow Green Army said:

I’m still very concerned with the lack of creativity in this squad but one thing we should not be unlike the last few seasons is lightweight and powderpuff.

Looking at the squad so far we have: Gunn, Hanley, Gibson, Omobamidele, Duffy, Stacey, Barnes, Sargent, Sorenson, Idah, McClean, Sara, Giannoulis all around the 6ft plus mark. Most of these will be regular starters week in week out and with Wagners up and at them approach we should be no pushovers. Plus we should be much more of a threat from set pieces this season with Duffy, Stacey and Barnes hopefully chipping in with some goals and assists.

I don’t believe we are too far away from assembling a really strong competitive squad for the season ahead. 2 or 3 quality loan/permanent additions and we will have a chance. 

I’m not sure I’d be using Sorensen, Sargent, Idah or Giannoulis as examples of why we’re going to be strong and athletic.

We’re going to finish closer to the bottom than the top.

[Michael Starr 520]

6 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

I’m not sure I’d be using Sorensen, Sargent, Idah or Giannoulis as examples of why we’re going to be strong and athletic.

We’re going to finish closer to the bottom than the top.

Sargent is definitely good enough for a top level push. I feel like this could be a big season for him. The other three are mid table Championship at best. I don't actually fully understand what Idah brings other than looking like a footballer without the ball.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Michael Starr

[Branston Pickle 3,678]

10 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

I’m not sure I’d be using Sorensen, Sargent, Idah or Giannoulis as examples of why we’re going to be strong and athletic.

We’re going to finish closer to the bottom than the top.

No we’re not.  I’ll happily wager a charity bet to CSF on it that we are 10th or higher if anyone is willing to put their money where their mouth is. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Branston Pickle

[Terminally Yellow 2,477]

I genuinely think we'll be better this season than last for general defensive solidity. I just think we'll be dour, boring and struggle to create and score goals. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

Its time to put the last 2 years behind us. Whats not to look forward to? 2 weeks away from a new season and a fresh start. Granted expectations will not be as high but that isn't a bad thing. I think we all expected what was evidently beyond us. Now we can, with hopefully a couple more signings, play our way into a good season.

You don't always have to get promoted to have a successful campaign.

 

[cambridgeshire canary 6,778]

5 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

I genuinely think we'll be better this season than last for general defensive solidity. I just think we'll be dour, boring and struggle to create and score goals. 

Exactly this. Our defending has looked better during pre season already bar a few suspicious moments.. But our lack of creativity up top is concerning

[Google Bot 3,298]

We've got 4 creatives in the squad yet to start a game for us since pre-season begin, that being Sainz, Sara, Rashica and Tzolis.

So there's still plenty to be added into this team, even if things stayed as they are.

[Conrad 178]

53 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

We've got 4 creatives in the squad yet to start a game for us since pre-season begin, that being Sainz, Sara, Rashica and Tzolis.

So there's still plenty to be added into this team, even if things stayed as they are.

Sorry, but I don't see how the 4 players that you mention can be classed as 'creative' in terms of the team going forward. Of the 4 Sara is perhaps the most certain to start and I consider him to be more of a 'box to box' player, one who gets on the end of things rather than one who creates chances for others. 

I, for one, would like to see some additional creativity within the team or we will struggle to score like last season. It is no use playing with wingers (as we seem to be now, leaving aside whether they are good enough) if we are incapable of giving them the ball in the best positions. 

[Google Bot 3,298]

12 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Sorry, but I don't see how the 4 players that you mention can be classed as 'creative' in terms of the team going forward.

Well, I can't help you, nor was I referring to your ability of judging players when I made that post.  So, we'll just have to see how it pans out won't we.

[Canary dwarf 221]

I think Barnes will be a really good signing for us , I don't believe he has come here for one final big payday , his power and strength will cause teams trouble 😁

[Capt. Pants 4,274]

31 minutes ago, Canary dwarf said:

I think Barnes will be a really good signing for us , I don't believe he has come here for one final big payday , his power and strength will cause teams trouble 😁

I think Barnes could well turn out to be a bit of a cult hero. He might not be a prolific scorer but will wind the opposition up and gee up the fans as well.

[Conrad 178]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

Well, I can't help you, nor was I referring to your ability of judging players when I made that post.  So, we'll just have to see how it pans out won't we.

Please feel free to select a small extract from what I actually posted. Oh, you have! 

I don't need to have any ability to judge players. Of the 4 players that you mentioned 3 are unlikely to be starters in Wagner's teams (based on the friendlies so far). Therefore they cannot bring any creativity (assuming that they have any) to the team if they are not in it. On this basis, the team lacks creativity, albeit in my humble opinion. 

 

[Petriix 2,849]

It doesn't really matter how strong and powerful we are if we can't control or pass the ball. This is undoubtedly the least skillful squad we've had since we were relegated to League One. 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

3 hours ago, Captain Holt said:

I’m not sure I’d be using Sorensen, Sargent, Idah or Giannoulis as examples of why we’re going to be strong and athletic.

We’re going to finish closer to the bottom than the top.

Never seen Sargent play outside of the radio??

Strong and athletic are probably two of josh best qualities 

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

1 hour ago, Conrad said:

Sorry, but I don't see how the 4 players that you mention can be classed as 'creative' in terms of the team going forward. Of the 4 Sara is perhaps the most certain to start and I consider him to be more of a 'box to box' player, one who gets on the end of things rather than one who creates chances for others. 

I, for one, would like to see some additional creativity within the team or we will struggle to score like last season. It is no use playing with wingers (as we seem to be now, leaving aside whether they are good enough) if we are incapable of giving them the ball in the best positions. 

Rashica was actually signed as the buendia replacement and seen by farke as the creative player he wanted. Ironically milot was the one signing farke wanted and he actually got from Webber.

Clearly it didn't work out for him here though, that said Dean Smith regressed the squad

[Nexus_Canary 1,024]

3 minutes ago, Petriix said:

It doesn't really matter how strong and powerful we are if we can't control or pass the ball. This is undoubtedly the least skillful squad we've had since we were relegated to League One. 

I wouldn't go that far, dry your pants.

[Google Bot 3,298]

11 minutes ago, Conrad said:

I don't need to have any ability to judge players

No, you're doing a grand job without it.

You've missed the fact that Sara was involved in 11 goals for us last season, Tzolis who's previously scored and created in Europa and Champs league matches, and Sainz+Rashica having direct involvement in 24 goals in the Turkish Super League last season.

A Combined total of 35 goals last season, plus the potential in each is hardly arid land to be building on.   To claim that none of them are creative is just ridiculous. Plus 3 of the 4, if fit, would be starters in Wagner's team.

[Captain Holt 522]

I actually can’t believe people are talking about Rashica as a serious option for us. Deary me.

[Yellow Green Army 237]

13 minutes ago, Captain Holt said:

I actually can’t believe people are talking about Rashica as a serious option for us. Deary me.

Serious option for us???? 😂😂😂

He is our player for goodness sake. If Gala or any other team don’t meet our valuation then he will be in our match day squad, make no mistakes about that!

[Petriix 2,849]

17 minutes ago, Yellow Green Army said:

Serious option for us???? 😂😂😂

He is our player for goodness sake. If Gala or any other team don’t meet our valuation then he will be in our match day squad, make no mistakes about that!

It's not about who owns him, it's just that he's proven himself incapable of playing to anything close to the required standard. While I think he probably possess the technical ability, he's so completely lacking in a footballing brain that he can't link up play or create opportunities. If we bring him back into the team then it's yet another step backwards (in my opinion). 

[Google Bot 3,298]

1 minute ago, Petriix said:

If we bring him back into the team then it's yet another step backwards (in my opinion). 

To be fair, we've not even seen him within a Wagner team yet so I don't see what advantage in jumping the gun is.

PP has looked clueless in the past and yet come on much better, citing the instructions under Wagner being a lot clearer than he's received in the past.  You can see the work that Wagner has done with Onel in regards to sustaining his energy across the game and thinking about his final ball.

Why not just keep an open mind?  It can't be that important to slate a player and then be proved right on a forum can it?

[Petriix 2,849]

1 hour ago, Google Bot said:

To be fair, we've not even seen him within a Wagner team yet so I don't see what advantage in jumping the gun is.

PP has looked clueless in the past and yet come on much better, citing the instructions under Wagner being a lot clearer than he's received in the past.  You can see the work that Wagner has done with Onel in regards to sustaining his energy across the game and thinking about his final ball.

Why not just keep an open mind?  It can't be that important to slate a player and then be proved right on a forum can it?

I'm totally open-minded and would absolutely love to be wrong. However, I've seen plenty from all three of the players you mention to lead me to the conclusion that they are significantly worse than the previous incumbents of those midfield positions who have now left the club.

I found Rashica an infuriating player to watch because he seems to never want to pass the ball, even to an unmarked teammate. For me,  passing is the single most important thing in football.

A player should almost always be looking for how to create the next pass to progress the ball, exploit the space and create an opening. If there's no opening then they should be looking to retain possession and engineer a positional mistake from the opposition.

Players like Rashica, Placheta and Hernandez all like to get their heads down and run with the ball. They tend to take far too many touches and lack awareness of the movement and spaces around them. Dribbling with the ball seems to please the crowd, but it's a very low-percentage option. It's far more productive to pass the ball and then move.

Having won the Championship twice recently by playing a passing game, followed by watching the utter dross that's followed as we've abandoned that style, you'll have to forgive me for being more than a little skeptical about how these players who weren't very good before are suddenly supposed to deliver.

Edited July 23, 2023 by Petriix

[Google Bot 3,298]

5 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Players like Rashica, Placheta and Hernandez all like to get their heads down and run with the ball. They tend to take far too many touches and lack awareness of the movement and spaces around them. Dribbling with the ball seems to please the crowd, but it's a very low-percentage option. It's far more productive to pass the ball and then move.

Ok, so when you said it's a step backwards, you mean in regards to our identity and style from Farke?  i.e. rather than Rashica being a step backwards vs the likes of Onel/PP/Rowe?

If so that makes sense to me, and yes I would agree.   But we've known this step was taken when we brought Smith in.

I was rather hopeful that Wagner would be a theme on Farke, but seeing this preseason he seems more a theme on Smith.  I don't know what the ultimate plan is, but it seems that he's playing a game of luck to me. 

What I mean by that is putting a lot of belief that if keep carrying the ball up the field and have bigger men up top, the ball is going to fall at one of their feet. 

But then I think, he's surely a lot smarter tactician than that.  So I'm quite wary of really taking anything from these pre-season games, and wonder more if it's a weeding out process and we'll look quite a different animal come start of the season.

I'm very much an optimist though!

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

1 hour ago, Petriix said:

It's not about who owns him, it's just that he's proven himself incapable of playing to anything close to the required standard. While I think he probably possess the technical ability, he's so completely lacking in a footballing brain that he can't link up play or create opportunities. If we bring him back into the team then it's yet another step backwards (in my opinion). 

He just won the league with a. Champions league team, he can’t be that bad 

[Kingston Yellow 222]

6 hours ago, Yellow Green Army said:

I don’t believe we are too far away from assembling a really strong competitive squad for the season ahead. 2 or 3 quality loan/permanent additions and we will have a chance. 

And do you expect the current exec to come up with 2 / 3 quality additions?

[hogesar 9,722]

4 hours ago, Conrad said:

Sorry, but I don't see how the 4 players that you mention can be classed as 'creative' in terms of the team going forward. Of the 4 Sara is perhaps the most certain to start and I consider him to be more of a 'box to box' player, one who gets on the end of things rather than one who creates chances for others. 

I, for one, would like to see some additional creativity within the team or we will struggle to score like last season. It is no use playing with wingers (as we seem to be now, leaving aside whether they are good enough) if we are incapable of giving them the ball in the best positions. 

I dont think we really struggled to score goals when we had a fit team under Wagner. 

Despite the awful end we scored as many goals as Luton who finished 3rd.

Looking at Wagners games up until the injury crisis...

We'd scored 19 goals in 9 games. Averaging just over 2 per game. And we played both top sides and poor sides in that 9 game period.

I do think there's been a narrative pushed that we struggled for goals all season but the reality is when we had injuries our home form was terrible and boring, but before that we were looking ok.

[Petriix 2,849]

6 minutes ago, Dr Greenthumb said:

He just won the league with a. Champions league team, he can’t be that bad 

I have only watched him play for Norwich. In the times I saw him play I watched him repeatedly fail to play simple passes that would/should have created goals. I've seen enough of him to believe that he won't improve on that deficiency.

[hogesar 9,722]

12 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Ok, so when you said it's a step backwards, you mean in regards to our identity and style from Farke?  i.e. rather than Rashica being a step backwards vs the likes of Onel/PP/Rowe?

If so that makes sense to me, and yes I would agree.   But we've known this step was taken when we brought Smith in.

I was rather hopeful that Wagner would be a theme on Farke, but seeing this preseason he seems more a theme on Smith.  I don't know what the ultimate plan is, but it seems that he's playing a game of luck to me. 

What I mean by that is putting a lot of belief that if keep carrying the ball up the field and have bigger men up top, the ball is going to fall at one of their feet. 

But then I think, he's surely a lot smarter tactician than that.  So I'm quite wary of really taking anything from these pre-season games, and wonder more if it's a weeding out process and we'll look quite a different animal come start of the season.

I'm very much an optimist though!

I think pre season has shown quite clearly an intent to take advantage of our physicality and fitness to press high up the pitch and win it in dangerous areas where we can create an overload - you don't need a Buendia to then create a goal scoring opportunity. 

No idea how effective we will be but that's what it looks like, and should be something fans in the ground can get behind. For me anyway,  high energy ala Lambert years is easy to get behind.

[Petriix 2,849]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I dont think we really struggled to score goals when we had a fit team under Wagner. 

But the goals we did score almost exclusively involved more talented players than those remaining at the club today.