OT - The Ashes

[ron obvious 1,517]

15 hours ago, hogesar said:

Gonna miss Broad and his child like expressions when he gets a wicket!

Did you see his eyes after he'd taken the last wicket? Big as saucers. Intense or what. Fabulous.

[Badger 2,413]

33 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

You lucky badger. I went to the Sunday at the Oval which might have been England's worst day of the series. And had to turn down a ticket for yesterday...

That's the thing with going to cricket matches - the weather & the fact that you are not guaranteed a full day's play 😪Not so bad when I was younger when we had what we called a "Pub day" whilst we waited, but I'm too old for that now!

[Fiery Zac 1,066]

31 minutes ago, ron obvious said:

Did you see his eyes after he'd taken the last wicket? Big as saucers. Intense or what. Fabulous.

reminiscent of that wicket and that catch from Stokes 8 years ago. Broad still as brilliant as back then, and everyone else looks so much younger!

 

 

[The Raptor 1,250]

27 minutes ago, Badger said:

That's the thing with going to cricket matches - the weather & the fact that you are not guaranteed a full day's play 😪Not so bad when I was younger when we had what we called a "Pub day" whilst we waited, but I'm too old for that now!

That's probably why I'll never make an effort to get a ticket for a test. Certainly not in this country where the weather is so unpredictable. It was expensive enough to see hours of rain and 5 overs a few years ago and that was for one day. I shudder to think how much a test ticket is! Luckily I have 2 OK pubs showing sky within a 10 minute walk so I've caught a couple of hours after work a few times. 

 

[LaUnionCanary 86]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Think the 2005 series was overall of higher quality. Lots of errors from both teams in this series. But this is the best in my memory for close finishes. As Branston says, four out of five games really tight. 1981 was before my watching time but I guess that would have come close, too. There's obviously Botham and Willis at Headingley, but I'm pretty sure Botham took 5-1 at Edgbaston to win a game that Aus were cruising in. Quite a lot of Bazball in those two series, too!

The other thing that has been great about this series has been the clash of styles. Perfectly encapsulated in the first two innings at the Oval where the two teams took very different routes to more or less identical scores. Hugely admire England for sticking to their approach at 0-2 down and getting at least what they deserve in the end. What Stokes and McCullum have done with this flawed, ragtag bunch of players is quite extraordinary.

The Aussie captain in 2005 was Ponting, a far better skipper than Cummings, though not as good as Vaughan. 

[shefcanary 2,496]

Sorry to put a dampener on things but there is now a big issue moving forwards replacing Broad and Anderson, and finding a reliable spinner. Finding one good test bowler has always been difficult, finding three surely is nigh on impossible. Can Bazball overcome such shortcomings?

[Fuzzar 1,705]

39 minutes ago, shefcanary said:

Sorry to put a dampener on things but there is now a big issue moving forwards replacing Broad and Anderson, and finding a reliable spinner. Finding one good test bowler has always been difficult, finding three surely is nigh on impossible. Can Bazball overcome such shortcomings?

The last time we won in Oz we had Anderson and Swann in their prime, ably supported by Tremlett and Bresnan. 

To win the Ashes next series we're pretty much going to replace the whole bowling line up. Tongue is potentially the only survivor for the 25/26 series, and he's had injury problems. 

[PurpleCanary 5,592]

1 hour ago, shefcanary said:

Sorry to put a dampener on things but there is now a big issue moving forwards replacing Broad and Anderson, and finding a reliable spinner. Finding one good test bowler has always been difficult, finding three surely is nigh on impossible. Can Bazball overcome such shortcomings?

Shef, glad to see you can always find a dark cloud when it comes to cricket as well as Norwich City. Good to have a fixed point in a chaotic universe...😍

I take the point about the bowling but will mention one wicket-keeper-batsman name - James Rew of Somerset.

[LaUnionCanary 86]

1 hour ago, PurpleCanary said:

Shef, glad to see you can always find a dark cloud when it comes to cricket as well as Norwich City. Good to have a fixed point in a chaotic universe...😍

I take the point about the bowling but will mention one wicket-keeper-batsman name - James Rew of Somerset.

There is someone called Woakes not sure, but he may be good enough. And another, Leach.

[LaUnionCanary 86]

Just now, LaUnionCanary said:

There is someone called Woakes not sure, but he may be good enough. And another, Leach.

Sorry Purple, replying to the wrong post. shefcanarys post is what I was replying to.

[PurpleCanary 5,592]

20 minutes ago, LaUnionCanary said:

Sorry Purple, replying to the wrong post. shefcanarys post is what I was replying to.

We have all done that!😍

[canarydan23 4,066]

3 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Sorry to put a dampener on things but there is now a big issue moving forwards replacing Broad and Anderson, and finding a reliable spinner. Finding one good test bowler has always been difficult, finding three surely is nigh on impossible. Can Bazball overcome such shortcomings?

You never know, Olly Stone and Jofra Archer might overcome their injury woes and Rehan Ahmed might develop into a world class spinner.

Edited August 1, 2023 by canarydan23

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

3 hours ago, LaUnionCanary said:

The Aussie captain in 2005 was Ponting, a far better skipper than Cummings, though not as good as Vaughan. 

Not sure I agree with that, actually. Not sure how tough it was to captain that great Australian side. Another over, Glenn? Another over, Warnie? Cummins hasn't had a great series as captain but probably not as bad as people have made out. Certainly didn't make a single mistake as bad as Ponting's putting England in at Edgbaston in 2005. It's also pretty tough to captain as a fast bowler, especially when you've got Bazball coming at you. So perhaps Ponting was better, but not 'far better'.

Ponting has become a quite stupendous commentator, though. His instant analysis of Harry Brook's dismissal in the second innings at the Oval was probably the best bit of analysis I saw/heard this summer. Whereas Vaughan has become (or been revealed as) quite the blowhard. Would have been quite surprised to be told in 2005 that the 2023 me would have liked and respected Ponting miles more than Vaughan.

[Canary Wundaboy 1,360]

1 hour ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Not sure I agree with that, actually. Not sure how tough it was to captain that great Australian side. Another over, Glenn? Another over, Warnie? Cummins hasn't had a great series as captain but probably not as bad as people have made out. Certainly didn't make a single mistake as bad as Ponting's putting England in at Edgbaston in 2005. It's also pretty tough to captain as a fast bowler, especially when you've got Bazball coming at you. So perhaps Ponting was better, but not 'far better'.

Ponting has become a quite stupendous commentator, though. His instant analysis of Harry Brook's dismissal in the second innings at the Oval was probably the best bit of analysis I saw/heard this summer. Whereas Vaughan has become (or been revealed as) quite the blowhard. Would have been quite surprised to be told in 2005 that the 2023 me would have liked and respected Ponting miles more than Vaughan.

Haven't not really been exposed to Vaughan's commentating/analysis before this Ashes I'm stunned at how bad he is.

[Herman 9,842]

48 minutes ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Haven't not really been exposed to Vaughan's commentating/analysis before this Ashes I'm stunned at how bad he is.

I'm on the far opposite side to you then. I really like Vaughan and find him be one of the best on TMS.

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

1 hour ago, Canary Wundaboy said:

Haven't not really been exposed to Vaughan's commentating/analysis before this Ashes I'm stunned at how bad he is.

Frustrating, isn't it? The annoying thing about him is that he obviously knows his stuff and could be a really good commentator, but just seems to want to draw attention to himself all the time.

[Badger 2,413]

6 hours ago, The Raptor said:

That's probably why I'll never make an effort to get a ticket for a test. Certainly not in this country where the weather is so unpredictable. It was expensive enough to see hours of rain and 5 overs a few years ago and that was for one day. I shudder to think how much a test ticket is! Luckily I have 2 OK pubs showing sky within a 10 minute walk so I've caught a couple of hours after work a few times. 

 

I'm too ashamed to admit how much I paid for a ticket from a "secondary sellers sight."

It's unlikely that you will be completely rained off if you book to see a whole Test match but obviously really expensive - the tickets cost enough but then you have hotels on top if you live in "the Fine City." Basically you have to think of it as a holiday rather than event - I have had some disappointing experiences but also some memorable ones.

Since I retired I have been glued to the TV during the bigger test series when I haven't been able to go, but really they should be on free-to-air channels.

 

[Canary73 167]

3 hours ago, LaUnionCanary said:

There is someone called Woakes not sure, but he may be good enough. And another, Leach.

We’ve got Archer and Robinson and Sussex but both have had injuries. Carson is one for the future as is Haines for the batting places. 

[Badger 2,413]

7 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Sorry to put a dampener on things but there is now a big issue moving forwards replacing Broad and Anderson, and finding a reliable spinner. Finding one good test bowler has always been difficult, finding three surely is nigh on impossible. Can Bazball overcome such shortcomings?

I agree that there are doubts over all of them - particularly injury but there are some potential replacements in the faster bowling department - Josh Tongue is potentially an exciting prospect who was unlucky not to play ahead of Anderson at the Oval; Ollie Robinson (a good record although a bit disappointing this year); Matthew Potts looked promising last year + in addition, Saqib Mahmood, Joffra Archer and Ollie Stone all offer pace if they can overcome their injury problems - or at least alternate them! I have never particularly rated Sam Curran but could be useful as a 4th seamer and a point of difference as a left armer.

The spin department is very thin but we have Jack leech for a few years yet, and I suspect that they are going to "manufacture" another spinner, much in the way that they had to with Moeen Ali, who essentially had to learn on the job. I suspect that this is their plan for Rehan Ahmed and the batsman part-time finger spinner who played a couple of games last year whose name escapes me atm.

The striking thing about "Bazball" (Yuk) has been the ability to take 20 wickets regularly and these have often been shared around rather than individual performances of brilliance. With regards our bowling attack the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, although they will face possibly their biggest test yet in India.

[Badger 2,413]

1 hour ago, Canary73 said:

We’ve got Archer and Robinson and Sussex but both have had injuries. Carson is one for the future as is Haines for the batting places. 

James Rew looks to be a very promising Keeper- Batter - 1160 first class runs, averaging 55 this year and only 19.

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

8 minutes ago, Badger said:

batsman part-time finger spinner who played a couple of games last year whose name escapes me atm.

Will Jacks? Dom Bess is also in the category from a few years ago but seems to have gone off the radar

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

9 minutes ago, Badger said:

With regards our bowling attack the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, although they will face possibly their biggest test yet in India.

The secret weapon of the bowling attack is how great a captain Stokes is, imho.

India will be a challenge, no doubt, especially with the rank turners that have been prepared there recently. But this team has met every challenge put its way so far. Can't wait.

[Badger 2,413]

3 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Will Jacks? Dom Bess is also in the category from a few years ago but seems to have gone off the radar

Thanks! Yes, Will Jacks! (Senior moment!)

Yes Dom Bess - he can't seem to get many games atm. A victim of the County system imo.

[Gordon Bennett 794]

3 hours ago, Herman said:

I'm on the far opposite side to you then. I really like Vaughan and find him be one of the best on TMS.

Absolutely agree. 

[PurpleCanary 5,592]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

I agree that there are doubts over all of them - particularly injury but there are some potential replacements in the faster bowling department - Josh Tongue is potentially an exciting prospect who was unlucky not to play ahead of Anderson at the Oval; Ollie Robinson (a good record although a bit disappointing this year); Matthew Potts looked promising last year + in addition, Saqib Mahmood, Joffra Archer and Ollie Stone all offer pace if they can overcome their injury problems - or at least alternate them! I have never particularly rated Sam Curran but could be useful as a 4th seamer and a point of difference as a left armer.

The spin department is very thin but we have Jack leech for a few years yet, and I suspect that they are going to "manufacture" another spinner, much in the way that they had to with Moeen Ali, who essentially had to learn on the job. I suspect that this is their plan for Rehan Ahmed and the batsman part-time finger spinner who played a couple of games last year whose name escapes me atm.

The striking thing about "Bazball" (Yuk) has been the ability to take 20 wickets regularly and these have often been shared around rather than individual performances of brilliance. With regards our bowling attack the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, although they will face possibly their biggest test yet in India.

One of the points about Bazball is that England’s fast scoring rate gives them time to take 20 wickets. Also time for the opposition when batting last to get the runs, of course! In the last test England scored so quickly that even with a rain delay on the last day they had plenty of times to bowl Australia out. The one result that was almost impossible was a draw.

[king canary 7,681]

Replacing Broad is a huge ask. Replacing 2023 James Anderson less so unfortunately. 

Wood and Woakes seem shoe ins if fitness isn't an issue. Archer is obviously the ideal addition but that feels very unlikely. Then it is working out what we have with Stone, Robinson, Tongue and maybe even Curren.

[Branston Pickle 3,708]

3 hours ago, Badger said:

James Rew looks to be a very promising Keeper- Batter - 1160 first class runs, averaging 55 this year and only 19.

They will no doubt be keeping an eye on him - only problem is that there have been a few guys from Somerset who looked great over recent years, who haven’t quite made it internationally.  Taunton is a pretty high scoring ground, so perhaps averages are regarded a a little bit ‘false’ - though 1160 runs is plenty!

[LaUnionCanary 86]

13 hours ago, Badger said:

Thanks! Yes, Will Jacks! (Senior moment!)

Yes Dom Bess - he can't seem to get many games atm. A victim of the County system imo.

He is still registered with Yorkshire but they have loaned him out on short term loans to Warwick and Somerset this season.

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

14 hours ago, king canary said:

Replacing Broad is a huge ask. Replacing 2023 James Anderson less so unfortunately. 

Wood and Woakes seem shoe ins if fitness isn't an issue. Archer is obviously the ideal addition but that feels very unlikely. Then it is working out what we have with Stone, Robinson, Tongue and maybe even Curren.

And Matt Potts who has definitely got something about him. Unlucky not to get a game in the Ashes this summer, I thought.

[Robert N. LiM 4,573]

13 hours ago, Branston Pickle said:

They will no doubt be keeping an eye on him - only problem is that there have been a few guys from Somerset who looked great over recent years, who haven’t quite made it internationally.  Taunton is a pretty high scoring ground, so perhaps averages are regarded a a little bit ‘false’ - though 1160 runs is plenty!

Think they've also got eyes on Jamie Smith of Surrey who is a batter-keeper very much in the mode they like.