Farke to be sacked

[hogesar 9,804]

1 hour ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

And yet the list of failures signed by Webber is larger, Roberts, Edwards, Fahrmann, Passlack, Amadou, Drmic, Gilmour, Normann, Hayden all contributed very little if anything but you still seem to laud Webber as great. Quite bizarre really. I’m sure I missed a few failures too off the list 

I missed a few successes too.

It's not my fault you missed it all cos you thought Farke and the club were rubbish after his first season. If only you could have seen what we saw Farke was building 😉

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

8 hours ago, hogesar said:

So let's say he got lucky with Farke.

He then got lucky with Pukki too right?

And then we sold Pritchard. Webber confidently told Farke he had a better replacement lined up. Farke wasn't happy...

Emi walked through the door.

So Emi, he was lucky too?

We needed a Centre Half to challenge for promotion. In comes Hanley and Zimmerman. Luck of the draw too?

But what's a good defensive partnership without an experience goalkeeper. Ah, but we can't afford one. Tim Krul a lucky stab too? 

But we had so many players to replace too. I'm guessing Vrancic with all those assists and goals, despite being derided as League One standard by some who watched him and posted on this forum......Webber rolled another dice and struck gold?

I guess the same must apply to Stiepermann, Onel Hernandez, Trybull and Leitner.

Those loan signings of Gibson and Skipp really hindered us the second promotion season....

I always think if we're going to have a sensible discussion, let's not pretend the good things didn't happen. We can still acknowledge what he's got wrong since without making things up about the past.

What if it wasn't just luck? What if the player requirements to fit Farke's approach were so specific that only Pukki and Buendia really happened to gel with it, whereas the others could maybe have performed better if the philosophy on playing style had been a bit more flexible in terms of fitting approach around players rather than players about approach? What if we've wasted opportunities with otherwise good players because we were too narrow-minded about what we wanted to see on the pitch?

Edited May 16, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[hogesar 9,804]

22 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What if it wasn't just luck? What if the player requirements to fit Farke's approach were so specific that only Pukki and Buendia really happened to gel with it, whereas the others could maybe have performed better if the philosophy on playing style had been a bit more flexible in terms of fitting approach around players rather than players about approach? What if we've wasted opportunities with otherwise good players because we were too narrow-minded about what we wanted to see on the pitch?

All the players above gelled with it. And all I know is the players that carried across into Dean Smiths reign seems to have regressed.

[Midlands Yellow 4,118]

1 hour ago, hogesar said:

I missed a few successes too.

It's not my fault you missed it all cos you thought Farke and the club were rubbish after his first season. If only you could have seen what we saw Farke was building 😉

Webber was fantastic, no questions asked. The last two seasons have showed his limitations but the man lacks humility to own his own failures. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

40 minutes ago, hogesar said:

All the players above gelled with it. And all I know is the players that carried across into Dean Smiths reign seems to have regressed.

Did they actually regress though, or was it simply the absence of a Buendia and a Skipp?

You can say we've regressed from the beginning of the last Premier League season I suppose, but that started under Farke.

[hogesar 9,804]

56 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Did they actually regress though, or was it simply the absence of a Buendia and a Skipp?

You can say we've regressed from the beginning of the last Premier League season I suppose, but that started under Farke.

Oh, yeah they definitely regressed.

Individual players performed worse under Smith, the only player I thought he improved was Sargent. The likes of Aarons, McLean, Cantwell, Pukki, Dowell all looked worse under Smith.

[Dr Greenthumb 753]

15 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What if it wasn't just luck? What if the player requirements to fit Farke's approach were so specific that only Pukki and Buendia really happened to gel with it, whereas the others could maybe have performed better if the philosophy on playing style had been a bit more flexible in terms of fitting approach around players rather than players about approach? What if we've wasted opportunities with otherwise good players because we were too narrow-minded about what we wanted to see on the pitch?

It certainly helped having Buendia and Pukki, as the season before proved that.

it also helped not playing Stiepermann at left back to!

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

So it’s Robins second spell at Cov. Just saying.

[Ken Hairy 3,796]

On 16/05/2023 at 22:14, littleyellowbirdie said:

Did they actually regress though, or was it simply the absence of a Buendia and a Skipp?

You can say we've regressed from the beginning of the last Premier League season I suppose, but that started under Farke.

So basically your views are Farke was a chancer who got lucky and Dean Smith is the second coming of Alex Ferguson? I'm beginning to think you're my Villa supporting mate who has this weird obsession with us 😏

Edited May 18, 2023 by Ken Hairy

[Corbs1 90]

Gladbach are a huge club, with very successful European history- we’re simple not. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

3 hours ago, Ken Hairy said:

So basically your views are Farke was a chancer who got lucky and Dean Smith is the second coming of Alex Ferguson? I'm beginning to think you're my Villa supporting mate who has this weird obsession with us 😏

Not really. I very much enjoyed the Farke era. At the time, I said that as far as I was concerned I was fine with yoyoing indefinitely on the off chance that one day we caught a break. Obviously the rest of the world was rather scornful of us for that and a lot of fans just didn't have the stomach for that so we changed.

Farke knows how to work a crowd, but that is a totally trivial thing in my view and shouldn't be a factor in judging their competence.

I think the view of the importance of managers is exaggerated. Both Farke and Smith are clearly very competent to have done what they have.

Fundamentally, I just don't buy into this expectation that changing managers is the be all and end all, but they do have styles and was quite clear to me that the direction Smith was trying to take us was about giving us the ability to win ugly as well as win pretty, which is something completely alien to Farke's approach. It's pretty obvious this was his brief as well.

It should have had the whole season to get a proper handle on it is all I'm saying, because even if Wagner does have it in him, he will not get the patience necessary this season to properly experiment of results don't go our wayb after the failure of this season, although he may have enough on the prettiness side to get a bit more slack than Smith had, and he does clap the fans.

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Farke knows how to work a crowd, but that is a totally trivial thing in my view

But youve spent 6 months arguing that the crowd is very important to performance.......if Farke  can ' work them'   that's a very positive thing ...by your own measure.

I'm thinking of joining the growing band that think you're  either a troll  or just drunk and belligerent. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by wcorkcanary

[king canary 7,700]

3 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Farke knows how to work a crowd, but that is a totally trivial thing in my view and shouldn't be a factor in judging their competence.

As @wcorkcanary this is a pretty staggering about turn from your position that the crowd and the atmosphere in the stadium directly contributed to the results on the pitch under Smith and if we'd got behind the team all would have been fine.

If you believe that then surely being able to 'work the crowd' is a key factor to consider with a manager?

Edited May 18, 2023 by king canary

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

As @wcorkcanary this is a pretty staggering about turn from your position that the crowd and the atmosphere in the stadium directly contributed to the results on the pitch under Smith and if we'd got behind the team all would have been fine.

If you believe that then surely being able to 'work the crowd' is a key factor to consider with a manager?

Can't wait for him to pontificate on  this one. I'm sure we've missed ' nuances'  in his  argument. As he's  always right, doesnt just have an opinion, but has the right opinion....and the empty bottles to prove it. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

As @wcorkcanary this is a pretty staggering about turn from your position that the crowd and the atmosphere in the stadium directly contributed to the results on the pitch under Smith and if we'd got behind the team all would have been fine.

If you believe that then surely being able to 'work the crowd' is a key factor to consider with a manager?

I suppose if you put it as a de facto necessity for the manager to convincingly blow smoke up the backside of supporters in the stadium to motivate them to encourage the team then what you say is a very strong argument. If it is true then I'm more of the opinion that Wagner needs to go because he's clearly not doing it well enough either.

If you're treating that as a necessity you may well finish up narrowing the pool of potential managers to others that could be stronger in more important areas of management.

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

12 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I suppose if you put it as a de facto necessity for the manager to convincingly blow smoke up the backside of supporters in the stadium to motivate them to encourage the team then what you say is a very strong argument. If it is true then I'm more of the opinion that Wagner needs to go because he's clearly not doing it well enough either.

If you're treating that as a necessity you may well finish up narrowing the pool of potential managers to others that could be stronger in more important areas of management.

Told you. Missed nuances. If only we could all talk out of both sides of our mouths ...and both  sides be right. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

4 hours ago, wcorkcanary said:

But youve spent 6 months arguing that the crowd is very important to performance.......if Farke  can ' work them'   that's a very positive thing ...by your own measure.

I'm thinking of joining the growing band that think you're  either a troll  or just drunk and belligerent. 

He could work a crowd, and in fairness to him I think it seemed to be a natural and genuine thing. As time has gone on though it seems to have had a toxic effect in two ways: Any suggestion that he was anything less than perfect in hindsight seems to be a very sore point for some and his rare ability to really connect with a crowd is now a bare minimum requirement apparently to get any enthusiasm in the ground. He was our manager for five years with a whole season of abysmal relegation from the Premier League and a 1/4 season setting us up for abysmal relegation, but he's still the standard that all managers are gonig to be judged by because he could make the crowd feel good.

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

He could work a crowd, and in fairness to him I think it seemed to be a natural and genuine thing. As time has gone on though it seems to have had a toxic effect in two ways: Any suggestion that he was anything less than perfect in hindsight seems to be a very sore point for some and his rare ability to really connect with a crowd is now a bare minimum requirement apparently to get any enthusiasm in the ground. He was our manager for five years with a whole season of abysmal relegation from the Premier League and a 1/4 season setting us up for abysmal relegation, but he's still the standard that all managers are gonig to be judged by because he could make the crowd feel good.

Wow!! Have another  glass mate, then a little sleep. That Straw man you've just hallucinated may have disappeared  by then.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

6 minutes ago, wcorkcanary said:

Wow!! Have another  glass mate, then a little sleep. That Straw man you've just hallucinated may have disappeared  by then.

Maybe I've just got that impression from the straw men people hallucinate when arguing with me...

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Maybe I've just got that impression from the straw men people hallucinate when arguing with me...

Sounding like Etihics now man, give up ffs !. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by wcorkcanary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

1 minute ago, wcorkcanary said:

Sounding like Etihics now man, give up ffs !. 

And what about you? You've clearly appointed yourself as the person to follow me around commentating on what I've got to say. What's so special about you for you to take up that role?

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

5 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And what about you? You've clearly appointed yourself as the person to follow me around commentating on what I've got to say. What's so special about you for you to take up that role?

We take it in turns chap, it's known as tickling the tw@. 

I love the way the big egos on here always resort to the 'following me around' phrase...as if the bolloxthey spout should go unchallenged. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by wcorkcanary

[littleyellowbirdie 2,611]

1 hour ago, wcorkcanary said:

We take it in turns chap, it's known as tickling the tw@. 

I love the way the big egos on here always resort to the 'following me around' phrase...as if the bolloxthey spout should go unchallenged. You

You literally do. It doesn't bother me. The pattern is clear though. Saddo.

[wcorkcanary 4,355]

1 minute ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

You literally do. It doesn't bother me. The pattern is clear though. Saddo.

If it doesn't bother you , why whine? Why not turn your superior  intellect to something useful? Do they have volunteer  groups in France, im sure they'll  need pointing in the right direction. 

[canarybubbles 1,953]

21 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

the direction Smith was trying to take us was about giving us the ability to win ugly as well as win pretty

Well, he managed the ugly bit.

[lake district canary 4,562]

There's no doubt Farke can work the crowd, but that was a natural part of his philosophy of bringing everyone together as being a necessity for success. Smith kind of just ignored that, its not in his nature. Wagner speaks of togetherness too so we'll have to see if he can get that next season, because he hasn't so far.

Farke got it easily, once results improved - a natural response to success on the pitch. Wagner will be the same, or he won't last long. 

[Google Bot 3,374]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Smith kind of just ignored that, its not in his nature.

Not so sure about that, I don't know what he was like at Villa, but I'm sure he embraced the crowd there.

I think Smith's problem was that he came into this club as a fixer to our problems, and took a very formal and structured approach to the job - I don't think he wanted to celebrate each little point or win as mentally it set a standard which was below what's needed.

When we beat teams in the prem league, for example, you could see he wanted to walk back down the tunnel like it's a job done rather than some momentous occasion. 

The trouble is, we never ever reached a point worth celebrating in regards to the job he came in to do, so  become stuck in the loop and as weeks went by pretending (believing?) that everything was on plan and trying to back it all up in a more logical/statistical way - which then gives the perspective of being emotionally detached from what we were seeing as fans.

IF we survived in the prem league, or got top 2 this season we'd be saying what a top bloke he was and came over to us all punching, smiling end season.  It would be the moment to break that threshold of going from "I'm here to do a job" to "I'm one of you".

(imo of course)

Edited May 19, 2023 by Google Bot

[lake district canary 4,562]

6 minutes ago, Google Bot said:

Not so sure about that, I don't know what he was like at Villa, but I'm sure he embraced the crowd there.

I think Smith's problem was that he came into this club as a fixer to our problems, and took a very formal and structured approach to the job - I don't think he wanted to celebrate each little point or win as mentally it set a standard which was below what's needed.

When we beat teams in the prem league, for example, you could see he wanted to walk back down the tunnel like it's a job done rather than some momentous occasion. 

The trouble is, we never ever reached a point worth celebrating in regards to the job he came in to do, so  become stuck in the loop and as weeks went by pretending (believing?) that everything was on plan and trying to back it all up in a more logical/statistical way - which then gives the perspective of being emotionally detached from what we were seeing as fans.

IF we survived in the prem league, or got top 2 this season we'd be saying what a top bloke he was and came over to us all punching, smiling end season.  It would be the moment to break that threshold of going from "I'm here to do a job" to "I'm one of you".

(imo of course)

Smith was popular at Villa partly because he was a Villan through and through and let his team do the talking. That would have worked at Norwich if his team had done the talking.....but in a way they did talk, by looking disorganised, slightly confused and lacking in direction and confidence....hence Smiths unpopularity. 

[Yobocop 1,105]

My contact in Germany saying this is done, Farke has left BMG 

[Google Bot 3,374]

1 minute ago, Yobocop said:

My contact in Germany saying this is done, Farke has left BMG 

Sad to hear if true.