Dean Smith in talks with?

[canarydan23 4,060]

Oh no, he's said survival is definitely achievable with the quality of the squad.

Watch out Leicester, we've heard that before.

[Midlands Yellow 4,099]

Good news for me, the A47 derby is back next season and I’ll see both matches. 

[aBee 152]

1 hour ago, canarybubbles said:

When Smith was here, I often saw posters say that he was an unlucky coach. I totally disagree - he's one of the luckiest coaches ever. He landed a job with a fantastically well-run club - Brentford - who were willing to let him be mediocre for three years. Then he got the job with Villa and a squad which included Grealish and a host of very good players who almost anyone could have got promoted, he avoided relegation due to a freak technological glitch, when he was finally sacked he walked into a new job a few days later, and now he has the chance to revive his career with a squad that looks a bit better on paper than several of their rivals around them.

He might not have much in the way of managerial ability, but his interview technique must be stunning.

He did pretty well at Brentford with a squad which lost its best players each year but who he developed well. We were in the play-off places when Villa poached him and without the disruption on the forced change (next 10 games after he left W1 D1 L8) may have stayed there. Villa weren’t really going anywhere with their squad under Bruce. When they stayed up, even if there was that one freak event, the post resumption run he got from them probably ought to be compared with what you got under Farke (wasn’t it something like 8 straight defeats?). 

[hogesar 9,760]

24 minutes ago, aBee said:

He did pretty well at Brentford with a squad which lost its best players each year but who he developed well. We were in the play-off places when Villa poached him and without the disruption on the forced change (next 10 games after he left W1 D1 L8) may have stayed there. Villa weren’t really going anywhere with their squad under Bruce. When they stayed up, even if there was that one freak event, the post resumption run he got from them probably ought to be compared with what you got under Farke (wasn’t it something like 8 straight defeats?). 

All fair points. Smith was never as bad a manager as made out on here, but of course he didn't deliver for us (much like Wagner isn't either, despite getting a bit more from a few players). Maybe our squad is just overrated and some are reaching the end of their peak.

If he keeps Leicester up he'll likely get the prem job whilst we're still in the Championship...

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

I cannot fathom out why owners just look at the same old managers. Its a merry go round.

Smith has been sacked from his last two jobs. He couldn't save us from relegation from the EPL although he obviously told Delia he could. And he will be taking Shakespeare who was sacked by Leicester.

Lampard at Chelsea is another example of inexplicable behaviour and decisions by club owners.

We took a punt on Neil and it worked. I still maintain he was good enough but the big defeat at Newcastle changed him from fearless to afraid.

No coach can gain experience with top players until he is thrown in at the deep end and given the backing.

[FenwayFrank 2,469]

Sky this morning describing him as the former Villa, Brentford and Walsall manager

[Danke bitte 967]

20 minutes ago, hogesar said:

All fair points. Smith was never as bad a manager as made out on here, but of course he didn't deliver for us (much like Wagner isn't either, despite getting a bit more from a few players). Maybe our squad is just overrated and some are reaching the end of their peak.

If he keeps Leicester up he'll likely get the prem job whilst we're still in the Championship...

I know we’re talking about the present but you suggesting Wagner isn’t delivering at present is worrying as usually you’re pro coach - not blindly of course.

With one eye on the summer do you think Wagner, with his own squad (let’s face it, this one is a Frankenstein’s monster of Farke / Smith) can galvanise the club again for a decent campaign or do you have your concerns?

[hogesar 9,760]

20 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

I know we’re talking about the present but you suggesting Wagner isn’t delivering at present is worrying as usually you’re pro coach - not blindly of course.

With one eye on the summer do you think Wagner, with his own squad (let’s face it, this one is a Frankenstein’s monster of Farke / Smith) can galvanise the club again for a decent campaign or do you have your concerns?

I think we can acknowledge that Wagners best performances have been better than Smiths best performances with this squad, which is something.

But I think Wagners worst performances are on par with Smiths worst too. 

Smith had the pre-season and involvement in signings though - Wagner hasn't had that. He deserves a stab at it next season.

I would say that I spent most of Farke's first season defending him because it was a really clear footballing blueprint he was trying to achieve with us - and there would be these small periods of play where I saw it click and it made sense to me. I have to be honest and say I've not really seen that from Wagner yet but he's had to contend with a lot of injuries in different positions etc - and middle of a season is hard to lay-down foundations.

Edited April 11, 2023 by hogesar

[Danke bitte 967]

1 minute ago, hogesar said:

I think we can acknowledge that Wagners best performances have been better than Smiths best performances with this squad, which is something.

But I think Wagners worst performances are on par with Smiths worst too. 

Smith had the pre-season and involvement in signings though - Wagner hasn't had that. He deserves a stab at it next season.

I would say that I spent most of Farke's first season defending him because it was a really clear footballing blueprint he was trying to achieve with us - and there would be these small periods of play where I saw it click and it made sense to me. I have to be honest and say I've not really seen that from Wagner yet but he's had to contend with a lot of injuries in different positions etc - and middle of a season is hard to lay-down foundations.

That’s a fair assessment. I’m with you and am telling myself to be patient. But the caveat about not witnessing a discerning style peek through is a concern. I completely agree about Farke’s first season. 

My main worry is Wagner not given time by fans to forge his style given the lack of patience exhibited. And then he’ll be off and we’re back at square one hiring and firing and never really finding an identity for X years. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

3 minutes ago, hogesar said:

I think we can acknowledge that Wagners best performances have been better than Smiths best performances with this squad, which is something.

But I think Wagners worst performances are on par with Smiths worst too. 

Smith had the pre-season and involvement in signings though - Wagner hasn't had that. He deserves a stab at it next season.

I would say that I spent most of Farke's first season defending him because it was a really clear footballing blueprint he was trying to achieve with us - and there would be these small periods of play where I saw it click and it made sense to me. I have to be honest and say I've not really seen that from Wagner yet but he's had to contend with a lot of injuries in different positions etc - and middle of a season is hard to lay-down foundations.

I agree with so much of that but are you not puzzzled by DWs apparent tinkering with the team. Yes we had injuries Friday but the defence was never under pressure yesterday even with the reorganisation. But to change from a five to a four in midfield, bizarrely it seemed, to take off McCallum who looked sound for Dimi and not restore five in the middle and end the game relying on Idah, Kamara and Tzolis to get us a goal, three strikers as such and then still play it among AO and Lungi so much, puzzeld me so much and I really fely it was clearly 2 points dropped rather than a grea teffort from an injury ravaged squad.

[hogesar 9,760]

4 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I agree with so much of that but are you not puzzzled by DWs apparent tinkering with the team. Yes we had injuries Friday but the defence was never under pressure yesterday even with the reorganisation. But to change from a five to a four in midfield, bizarrely it seemed, to take off McCallum who looked sound for Dimi and not restore five in the middle and end the game relying on Idah, Kamara and Tzolis to get us a goal, three strikers as such and then still play it among AO and Lungi so much, puzzeld me so much and I really fely it was clearly 2 points dropped rather than a grea teffort from an injury ravaged squad.

Yes. As you acknowledge the injuries allow him a bit of lee-way because we didn't have another midfielder to play once Lungi had to go CB. I agree fully we needed to keep the midfield shape we had from Blackburn but I guess it wasn't possible - any of Mclean, Nunez, Dowell being available would surely have meant we did.

Yes I thought McCallum had a great game but did cramp up just before being subbed, he had put in a lot of work - Dimi was comparatively useless when he came on.

And I think Idah, Kamara and Tzolis looked like desperate throws of the dice and that's what they turned out to be!

100% feels like 2 points dropped.

[hogesar 9,760]

12 minutes ago, Danke bitte said:

That’s a fair assessment. I’m with you and am telling myself to be patient. But the caveat about not witnessing a discerning style peek through is a concern. I completely agree about Farke’s first season. 

My main worry is Wagner not given time by fans to forge his style given the lack of patience exhibited. And then he’ll be off and we’re back at square one hiring and firing and never really finding an identity for X years. 

Perhaps another season in the Championship will improve the patience a bit, with some acknowledgement it's not as easy to get promoted as Farke made it look (twice!).

It's always difficult, there were many wanting rid of Farke in his first season, perhaps even more after the start to the second season, and again at the end of our first Prem season. I was quite pleased the club ignored that noise and continued on their path because we all benefited from it.

[TheGunnShow 6,023]

Another thing that strikes me about the relative lack of a "style" coming through is the difference between a Farke team and the Wagner one at Huddersfield....

Farke teams kept the ball but weren't particularly active out of possession, Wagner's Huddersfield teams ran like heck out of possession as he's a Klopp acolyte. They both like keeping hold of it, which is the thing in common, but a Wagner side chases harder. So, for a Wagner to come in mid-season, he can't really do the major fitness work needed for his style to click in the middle of the season, so he has to fiddle around a bit with what he has.

I think we'll start seeing shoots of what Wagner's really wanting after a few games of next season.

[sonyc 5,541]

12 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Perhaps another season in the Championship will improve the patience a bit, with some acknowledgement it's not as easy to get promoted as Farke made it look (twice!).

It's always difficult, there were many wanting rid of Farke in his first season, perhaps even more after the start to the second season, and again at the end of our first Prem season. I was quite pleased the club ignored that noise and continued on their path because we all benefited from it.

I'm in a small (but suspect solid) band of people who would happily still have Farke as manager. I realise the club felt they needed to do something in terms of our PL struggles and his record was poor. We can't change history either. Yet, as manager, I always had a strong sense that he insisted on a style that he wanted,  as well as an unwavering loyalty to NCFC. He connected with fans like no other. He was humble enough too. And he gave us a playing style almost as good as the 92/93 season (for me almost as good...but the rest of the league was different then).

I recall Pardew getting a 10 year contract when at Newcastle (and it was always doomed to fail then) but I would have loved to see what a really long term manager might have done with us. It was clear how he wanted his teams to play. And it gave a lot of us the chance to see a system, a Norwich way if you like. 

I tend to think winning a league is more about how the team thinks about itself. Of course you need technical ability and a couple of superstars in it often makes the difference (Emi, Teemu). Farke was some competitor and I always felt he had charm but a ruthlessness too. I wish he was still here. We just had a fit that I could see lasting. The decision by Webber to jettison that with the Smith appointment was the worst (for me) and that's despite me being someone who likes to see new managers have time.

I've yet to see a real identity with Wagner but will give him time and I like him. Agree with you about next year and the point about patience. Wagner doesn't have to be a new Farke (he never could) but he needs about 4 really good additions (striker, DM and AM midfielders and possibly 2 central defenders, certainly one). You get out of the Championship by scoring goals. We have to replace Teemu.

[king canary 7,680]

1 minute ago, sonyc said:

I recall Pardew getting a 10 year contract when at Newcastle (and it was always doomed to fail then) but I would have loved to see what a really long term manager might have done with us. It was clear how he wanted his teams to play. And it gave a lot of us the chance to see a system, a Norwich way if you like. 

I think we saw what a long term manager did with us? Farke was here for over 4 years which is pretty long term by most managerial standards and we saw what it got us- lovely, scintillating football in the 2nd tier, humiliation in the top tier.

I'm also not sure I see 'having a set way of playing' as always a positive. Farke's biggest weakness as a head coach is an inability to adapt his playing style. It cost him here and I wouldn't be shocked if it costs him at Gladbach too. 

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

13 minutes ago, sonyc said:

I'm in a small (but suspect solid) band of people who would happily still have Farke as manager. I realise the club felt they needed to do something in terms of our PL struggles and his record was poor. We can't change history either. Yet, as manager, I always had a strong sense that he insisted on a style that he wanted,  as well as an unwavering loyalty to NCFC. He connected with fans like no other. He was humble enough too. And he gave us a playing style almost as good as the 92/93 season (for me almost as good...but the rest of the league was different then).

I recall Pardew getting a 10 year contract when at Newcastle (and it was always doomed to fail then) but I would have loved to see what a really long term manager might have done with us. It was clear how he wanted his teams to play. And it gave a lot of us the chance to see a system, a Norwich way if you like. 

I tend to think winning a league is more about how the team thinks about itself. Of course you need technical ability and a couple of superstars in it often makes the difference (Emi, Teemu). Farke was some competitor and I always felt he had charm but a ruthlessness too. I wish he was still here. We just had a fit that I could see lasting. The decision by Webber to jettison that with the Smith appointment was the worst (for me) and that's despite me being someone who likes to see new managers have time.

I've yet to see a real identity with Wagner but will give him time and I like him. Agree with you about next year and the point about patience. Wagner doesn't have to be a new Farke (he never could) but he needs about 4 really good additions (striker, DM and AM midfielders and possibly 2 central defenders, certainly one). You get out of the Championship by scoring goals. We have to replace Teemu.

I don't think that band is as small as you imagine Sonyc

[keelansgrandad 6,679]

11 minutes ago, king canary said:

I think we saw what a long term manager did with us? Farke was here for over 4 years which is pretty long term by most managerial standards and we saw what it got us- lovely, scintillating football in the 2nd tier, humiliation in the top tier.

I'm also not sure I see 'having a set way of playing' as always a positive. Farke's biggest weakness as a head coach is an inability to adapt his playing style. It cost him here and I wouldn't be shocked if it costs him at Gladbach too. 

I think DF was too rigid at times. But I did like that his style was pleasing on the eye. And if you are getting beaten, rather than pumping long balls, I prefer seeing my team playing its way to the opposition goal. Of course, if one or two were off colour in any game, the system could collapse.

[Mengo 825]

1 hour ago, FenwayFrank said:

Sky this morning describing him as the former Villa, Brentford and Walsall manager

BBC

'I have experienced this challenge before'

Dean Smith holds a Leicester shirt at his unveiling as manager

Getty ImagesCopyright: Getty Images

New Leicester City manager Dean Smith believes keeping the club in the Premier League is "very much achievable".

 

The 52-year-old has been named Foxes manager until the end of the season and has eight league games to try and escape relegation.

 

The former Aston Villa and Norwich boss said: "I’m really happy to have the opportunity to lead the team during these final weeks of the season.

 

"The challenge in front of us is clear, but it’s one myself and my coaching team have experienced before.

 

"Our first job is to rebuild confidence and instil belief in the team and I’m looking forward to getting to work with the players this week. Saturday will be a big test, but it’s the kind of occasion that reminds us all what it means to be a Premier League club, competing on the biggest stages against the best players in the world.

 

"I know we’ll be well supported by our travelling fans. We have to connect with that and give them a performance they can be proud of. We go there positive, looking for points."

[Nuff Said 5,179]

18 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think DF was too rigid at times. But I did like that his style was pleasing on the eye. And if you are getting beaten, rather than pumping long balls, I prefer seeing my team playing its way to the opposition goal. Of course, if one or two were off colour in any game, the system could collapse.

Football mangers in the rear view mirror may appear more pleasing on the eye than they actually were. I seem to remember a *lot* of people complaining about many aimless passages of play passing the ball backwards and forwards, but mainly sideways, during Farke’s time with us. It was by no means all swashbuckling attacking football. However, it was a lot of victories while we were in the Championship which I suspect makes us view the period more favourably in hindsight.

[king canary 7,680]

20 minutes ago, keelansgrandad said:

I think DF was too rigid at times. But I did like that his style was pleasing on the eye. And if you are getting beaten, rather than pumping long balls, I prefer seeing my team playing its way to the opposition goal. Of course, if one or two were off colour in any game, the system could collapse.

It was pleasing on the eye in the Championship no doubt. However I'd suggest his style was far too easy to play against when we weren't the better team. 

We wanted to play out from the back at all times but we were both very vulnerable to being pressed and making errors, while also not being dangerous enough going forward that even mid-table teams had to worry about what happened if we beat their press. The inability to adapt from that style is ultimately what cost him and what could well hold his career back if he continues to stick to his guns. 

It is why, in my view, Lambert was the better manager for us here. He was pragmatic and could work with what he had. He didn't come in saying '4-4-2 diamond formation' he came in and realised he had players like Wes, Holt, Martin and Darrell Russell but didn't have wingers and thus adapted to fit. Farke needs to learn how to do that to an extent. 

[hogesar 9,760]

1 minute ago, Nuff Said said:

Football mangers in the rear view mirror may appear more pleasing on the eye than they actually were. I seem to remember a *lot* of people complaining about many aimless passages of play passing the ball backwards and forwards, but mainly sideways, during Farke’s time with us. It was by no means all swashbuckling attacking football. However, it was a lot of victories while we were in the Championship which I suspect makes us view the period more favourably in hindsight.

You're not wrong. Pukki in form possibly scores a hattrick yesterday and everyone is praising the performance and mentality of the squad, the entertainment value and everything else.

Instead we're ripping the team, manager, board apart whilst shouting at Idah and calling him a c*nt for signing a 5 year contract.

Oh the joy's of football fans. 🙂 

[sonyc 5,541]

11 minutes ago, Nuff Said said:

Football mangers in the rear view mirror may appear more pleasing on the eye than they actually were. I seem to remember a *lot* of people complaining about many aimless passages of play passing the ball backwards and forwards, but mainly sideways, during Farke’s time with us. It was by no means all swashbuckling attacking football. However, it was a lot of victories while we were in the Championship which I suspect makes us view the period more favourably in hindsight.

Agree 100%. Farke was never perfect. Perfection doesn't exist. And Lambert (even Neil) teams played good football. Same as Walker, Brown, Stringer and even Worthington of those that spent a decent time with us  My point really was about continuity. I could have written my post better on reflection. And allowing managers to also have space and time to develop. The same in business life. Often you need many years before younger or more inexperienced staff members start to show their worth. Football isn't like that I know. My point was the interest in a long-term project. It would have been quite revolutionary. You need people though who are motivated to learn and are in that stage of their careers. I still felt Farke was. He may fail at Mönchengladbach because they also can't wait.

And further I'm 100% behind Wagner. I hope he is given time.

 

 

 

[It's Character Forming 1,167]

My take on Smith as a manager is that he has more of a hands-off approach, wanting to teach the players but for the players to then take the lead on the field.  Whereas Farke wanted to drill them intensively on how to play and control every aspect of what they'd be doing (in possession at least).  Hence Smith was a bad fit for us after Farke.

 

So if we assume Leicester have a squad that is genuinely capable of surviving (after all, I think they've finished top 5 last 2 seasons) then if the players have lost faith in Rodgers and just need a fresh face to get them remotivated, they are only 2 points off safety which is entirely achievable.  It's a very different setup from when Smith was with us, realistically our squad was one of the 3 worst in the Prem and his hands off approach meant we found our natural level.  Whereas if he can get the Leicester players playing with some freedom they're probably one of the favourites to stay up from the clubs at the bottom.

 

I can see the appointment making sense in this light.  And he's only been signed till the end of the season so if they stay up, they can decide whether to keep him on or not, and if they go down, it will depend how he's done if they decide to give him a chance to get them back up.

 

If he does keep them up, it certainly won't change my thoughts about Smith's (awful) time with us - wrong manager at the wrong time.

[king canary 7,680]

2 minutes ago, It's Character Forming said:

My take on Smith as a manager is that he has more of a hands-off approach, wanting to teach the players but for the players to then take the lead on the field.  Whereas Farke wanted to drill them intensively on how to play and control every aspect of what they'd be doing (in possession at least).  Hence Smith was a bad fit for us after Farke.

 

So if we assume Leicester have a squad that is genuinely capable of surviving (after all, I think they've finished top 5 last 2 seasons) then if the players have lost faith in Rodgers and just need a fresh face to get them remotivated, they are only 2 points off safety which is entirely achievable.  It's a very different setup from when Smith was with us, realistically our squad was one of the 3 worst in the Prem and his hands off approach meant we found our natural level.  Whereas if he can get the Leicester players playing with some freedom they're probably one of the favourites to stay up from the clubs at the bottom.

 

I can see the appointment making sense in this light.  And he's only been signed till the end of the season so if they stay up, they can decide whether to keep him on or not, and if they go down, it will depend how he's done if they decide to give him a chance to get them back up.

 

If he does keep them up, it certainly won't change my thoughts about Smith's (awful) time with us - wrong manager at the wrong time.

Interesting point.

If he can motivate them and free up players like Maddison and Barnes to play their best football then that is all they need really. He never came across as a great motivator here but people like Grelish always spoke really highly of him before. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,538]

2 hours ago, king canary said:

It was pleasing on the eye in the Championship no doubt. However I'd suggest his style was far too easy to play against when we weren't the better team. 

We wanted to play out from the back at all times but we were both very vulnerable to being pressed and making errors, while also not being dangerous enough going forward that even mid-table teams had to worry about what happened if we beat their press. The inability to adapt from that style is ultimately what cost him and what could well hold his career back if he continues to stick to his guns. 

It is why, in my view, Lambert was the better manager for us here. He was pragmatic and could work with what he had. He didn't come in saying '4-4-2 diamond formation' he came in and realised he had players like Wes, Holt, Martin and Darrell Russell but didn't have wingers and thus adapted to fit. Farke needs to learn how to do that to an extent. 

I think this is exactly right - and those weaknesses were even apparent in the Championship when we were Emi-less. I continue to love Daniel but really think things would have turned pretty sour for him if he had been our coach this season and we hadn't strolled to the title again.

[king canary 7,680]

13 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

I think this is exactly right - and those weaknesses were even apparent in the Championship when we were Emi-less. I continue to love Daniel but really think things would have turned pretty sour for him if he had been our coach this season and we hadn't strolled to the title again.

Yeah I agree- I've said before I don't think its a given that, had we kept Farke through hell or high water last season, we'd be doing any better under him this year. I think the psychological scars run deep for quite a few.

 

[Christoph Stiepermann 1,155]

Relative to the quality of our squad we put in some good performances in the PL last year, especially at the start of his tenure and away to Watford. Knowing what we know now about the actual quality of the players he was working with it was a minor miracle that we got any points at all in that league. This season was a different story but all of our forward options don't suit each others game and that second abject relegation has killed the atmosphere at the club and in the stands, it's a tough gig being Norwich manager right now. 

Farke, Smith and Wagner are not bad managers, but all of them have struggled to get the team we assembled in summer 2021 playing together as a unit and with a clear style. It's a player problem so you can't read too much into any of their records here since that summer. We looked nothing like a Farke team (Brentford away excepted) in those first 11 games, we looked nothing like Smith's Villa or Brentford teams for the most part in his time here and so far we've barely resembled a high pressing, high intensity Wagner team either. 

Smith has good players to work with at Leicester and I have a hunch that he'll do okay there and keep them up. 

[canarybubbles 1,946]

5 hours ago, FenwayFrank said:

Sky this morning describing him as the former Villa, Brentford and Walsall manager

Fair enough. I think he was golfing correspondent, wasn't he?