Wagner appeals again!

[yellowrider120 782]

https://www.pinkun.com/news/23444277.norwich-city-david-wagner-fan-appeal-ahead-rotherham-duel/

This is at least the third time when DW has made a public appeal for the FCR natives to waken from their slumbers and 'create an atmosphere'. As we know all too well the previous appeals have met with a sullen response and the drab 'atmosphere' has persisted. In fact the only difference between the Smith and Wagner experiences is that the boos and jeers when targeted players like Dowell and Gibson give the ball away is (thankfully) not audible anymore under the present manager. That (though) is precisely it!

Win, Lose or Draw sees the ground start to empty at an alarming rate from about 75 - 80 mins onwards. The reasons have been aired to death and are many and various but I feel it is hugely disappointing and embarrassing. Sure if the team are getting tonked then most grounds would see fans leaving early but we seem to be taking this to a whole new level. The malaise has even infected The Snakepit it seems which looks and sounds a pale shadow of it's former raucous self. What about today? Maybe, just maybe, the natives will finally emerge from their lethargy and at least set up something akin to a positive atmosphere but if they can't 'get up' for a match v a feisty rival in Sheff. Utd then why should they bother for an opponent 'who we should beat comfortably'??    

If we should manage to make the play offs then fans need to get the old videos out and listen to the atmosphere at the first leg v Wolves in 2004. That is what will be required. If you can't be bothered then give your ticket to someone who can.

[ricardo 7,397]

I will try to tut-tut at a higher volume👍

[TIL 1010 4,789]

Totally agree with everything you have said Dave and we can only hope that the wet miserable weather that i woke up to this morning which apparently is going to persist all day will keep the moaning minnies who sit in silence and hate the drum will stay away.

[lake district canary 4,545]

Be grateful you can go to matches, there are so many people that can't, for whatever reason. You are representing more than just yourself - you are representing the thousands of people around the world too far away to get to games, you are representing the thousands of folk in Norfolk who can't get to matches through age or infirmity.

In short, recognise your responsibility and pull your fingers out. 

[Mr.Carrow 378]

The club desperately needs stadium expansion so groups of (particularly young) mates can buy tickets together in a part of the ground they are not going to be treated like escapees from a lunatic asylum for supporting the team. The vast majority of our regular support are aging and go largely out of habit. I get Wagner's attempts but realistically it'snot going to work. 

[East Rider 551]

Spot on. However, I thought the Barclay in particular and the snakepit did a grand job in creating an atmosphere last game at home. Try sitting in the River end, an absolute morgue. 

I however, will be as loud as ever and as usual will lose my voice by the end

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

10 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Be grateful you can go to matches, there are so many people that can't, for whatever reason. You are representing more than just yourself - you are representing the thousands of people around the world too far away to get to games, you are representing the thousands of folk in Norfolk who can't get to matches through age or infirmity.

In short, recognise your responsibility and pull your fingers out. 

And there are many you describe who do make the effort week in week out, year in year out. Stop being judgemental on fans you know little about.

Wagner is just rousing support, no need to take it further than that.

I'm surprised you are not coming today btw.

[yellowrider120 782]

13 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

The club desperately needs stadium expansion so groups of (particularly young) mates can buy tickets together in a part of the ground they are not going to be treated like escapees from a lunatic asylum for supporting the team. The vast majority of our regular support are aging and go largely out of habit. I get Wagner's attempts but realistically it'snot going to work. 

Agree about stadium expansion but that's got precious little to do with the current flat atmosphere. Carrow Road was identical to now as far as the ground is concerned a few years back when fans raised the roof at a number of matches in Farkes promotion season (first one) and in the first PL season. 

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

2 hours ago, yellowrider120 said:

Agree about stadium expansion but that's got precious little to do with the current flat atmosphere. Carrow Road was identical to now as far as the ground is concerned a few years back when fans raised the roof at a number of matches in Farkes promotion season (first one) and in the first PL season. 

I think @Mr.Carrow has hit the nail on the head here, actually. Having such a high percentage of season ticket holders is both a blessing and a curse. There are so many factors at play here, including (but not limited to) the impact of the pandemic, the cost-of-living crisis, apathy with the current ownership model/inability to compete at PL level, the ageing fanbase... which inevitably leads to one or two thousand seats or so being vacant for most games. Stadium expansion, coupled with attractive ticket pricing for under-25s, would lead to a new generation of supporters getting access to the team which they're currently not able to. Whether the Attanasios have the money and the desire to bankroll that remains to be seen, but it is definitely an issue currently.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Feedthewolf

[Mr.Carrow 378]

3 minutes ago, yellowrider120 said:

Agree about stadium expansion but that's got precious little to do with the current flat atmosphere. Carrow Road was identical to now as far as the ground is concerned a few years back when fans raised the roof at a number of matches in Farkes promotion season (first one) and in the first PL season. 

I was away from the UK for 5 years and having returned a year ago I've been genuinely shocked how much CR has changed. Grey and bald heads everywhere and even in the Lower Barclay you feel like an idiot letting rip in support of the team (outside the block of 300 or so who actually do it). To me it's been a process but eventually a tipping point is reached in which quiet/bored/moany is the default setting and more "lively" people don't want to be a part of it.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

37 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Be grateful you can go to matches, there are so many people that can't, for whatever reason. You are representing more than just yourself - you are representing the thousands of people around the world too far away to get to games, you are representing the thousands of folk in Norfolk who can't get to matches through age or infirmity.

In short, recognise your responsibility and pull your fingers out. 

Hilarious! I don’t go to matches to represent anyone but myself and my support for the team, however I choose to do that. I’m lucky, I have just about enough money, opportunity and time to have a ST. For the record I am vocal and supportive every game, but it’s football, it’s not a ‘responsibility’ I need to recognise. I have the money, I get the seat, simple as that. 

I hope you are openly thankful for every meal for those that have global famine and every flower for those that live in a desert and blah blah blah 😂. Let’s not over egg it shall we? 

[lake district canary 4,545]

16 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

34 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Be grateful you can go to matches, there are so many people that can't, for whatever reason. You are representing more than just yourself - you are representing the thousands of people around the world too far away to get to games, you are representing the thousands of folk in Norfolk who can't get to matches through age or infirmity.

In short, recognise your responsibility and pull your fingers out. 

And there are many you describe who do make the effort week in week out, year in year out. Stop being judgemental on fans you know little about.

Wagner is just rousing support, no need to take it further than that.

I'm surprised you are not coming today btw.

That's all well and good and I'm not getting at those who do give their all, but I do feel people sometimes need things spelled out to them in no uncertain terms.

I don't go along with the "I pay my money I can support how I want" attitude. In my view, if you go to a match you are a part of it, not just a spectator - and if you don't give it your all, or sit and talk, or spend your time fiddling with your phallus, sorry I mean phone - then you are giving short service to all Norwich fans, old and young throughout Norfolk and the rest of the world who are unable to attend for whatever reason. 

 

[dylanisabaddog 4,975]

31 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think @Mr.Carrow has hit the nail on the head here, actually. Having such a high percentage of season ticket holders is both a blessing and a curse. There are so many factors at play here, including (but not limited to) the impact of the pandemic, the cost-of-living crisis, apathy with the current ownership model/inability to compete at PL level, the ageing fanbase... which inevitably leads to  one or two thousant seats or so being vacant for most games. Stadium expansion, coupled with attractive ticket pricing for under-25s, would lead to a new generation of supporters getting access to the team which they're currently not able to. Whether the Attanasios have the money and the desire to bankroll that remains to be seen, but it is definitely an issue currently.

Today's game is on the red button and it's miserable weather. And it's Rotherham. We will sit there wet and quietly shivering and watch Hugill score a late winner. 

Hope that's cheered everyone up! 

[Red Lion Canaries 9]

52 minutes ago, Mr.Carrow said:

The club desperately needs stadium expansion so groups of (particularly young) mates can buy tickets together in a part of the ground they are not going to be treated like escapees from a lunatic asylum for supporting the team. 

South H has been on general sale for home games this season and is almost sold out for today.  That's just over 1,000 seats.  A chunk of G went on sale a few days ago for today, maybe another 600 (with some home/away fan gap rows) and it is sold out for today now - right next to what's going to be a super poor away support only in F block.  Maybe these groups of mates that are apparently out there have bought lots of them.

[lake district canary 4,545]

4 minutes ago, SwearyCanary said:

Hilarious! I don’t go to matches to represent anyone but myself and my support for the team, however I choose to do that. I’m lucky, I have just about enough money, opportunity and time to have a ST. For the record I am vocal and supportive every game, but it’s football, it’s not a ‘responsibility’ I need to recognise. I have the money, I get the seat, simple as that. 

I hope you are openly thankful for every meal for those that have global famine and every flower for those that live in a desert and blah blah blah 😂. Let’s not over egg it shall we? 

The pandemic was life re-affirming in many ways and that we should be more grateful for things. Life is so fragile, wars, famine, pandemics - so there is every reason to be grateful for the good things in life. Food on the table, friends and family, good weather, or whatever - and I would include in that the ability to go to a football match.

I'm sorry you feel that you just think "I pay my money, I get the seat" as if that is all there is to it. When I used to go regularly to CR, it was an event to get up for, it was about getting mentally prepared for it as if I was going on the pitch myself, it was about performing at my best as a supporter and giving it all I had.

Imo supporting the team is a responsibility, not a choice, yes you pay your money and you take your seat, but as soon as you do that, you are part of the occasion.  The other thing about the pandemic is that it brought home how interconnected we all are and how we all rely on others - same is true when you are part of a football club. You are not a single entity going into the ground, you become part of the whole as soon as you go through the turnstile. 

How many people in the world support Norwich City, do you think? Probably at least 100,000.......500,000 plus, maybe?  Only 26,000 odd can get into CR.....so you that go are the lucky ones and every single person that goes should make the most of it - on behalf of all those that can't go. 

[Robert N. LiM 4,478]

Just now, lake district canary said:

I'm sorry you feel that you just think "I pay my money, I get the seat" as if that is all there is to it. When I used to go regularly to CR, it was an event to get up for, it was about getting mentally prepared for it as if I was going on the pitch myself, it was about performing at my best as a supporter and giving it all I had.

I agree with you, but I'm afraid that when clubs started charging £30+ for people to attend football matches they changed fans into consumers. That's why it's changed.

[Robert N. LiM 4,478]

2 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

I'm sorry you feel that you just think "I pay my money, I get the seat" as if that is all there is to it. When I used to go regularly to CR, it was an event to get up for, it was about getting mentally prepared for it as if I was going on the pitch myself, it was about performing at my best as a supporter and giving it all I had.

Also, you might be interested to know that the French word for attending a sporting event is 'assister'. I've always liked that, the idea that you are helping. I guess supporter has the same idea. I just think that when you have to pay so much money it encourages the idea that you are there to be entertained, to 'get your money's worth', rather than the idea that you are there to play a part in the afternoon's activity.

[hogesar 9,736]

1 hour ago, TIL 1010 said:

Totally agree with everything you have said Dave and we can only hope that the wet miserable weather that i woke up to this morning which apparently is going to persist all day will keep the moaning minnies who sit in silence and hate the drum will stay away.

Me and you in full agreement again. If that doesn't create an atmosphere what will?!

[lake district canary 4,545]

55 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

I'm surprised you are not coming today btw.

Just noticed this line.  I'm one of the thousands of supporters who can't easily get to matches through distance, finances and family commitments, but I'm still a supporter.  That is why I say that people who do go have a responsibility - you are there representing the rest of us who can't.

[KiwiScot 1,460]

Is Wagner sending an extra bottle of wine to Delia for pre-match

[hogesar 9,736]

15 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Just noticed this line.  I'm one of the thousands of supporters who can't easily get to matches through distance, finances and family commitments, but I'm still a supporter.  That is why I say that people who do go have a responsibility - you are there representing the rest of us who can't.

I actually don't disagree. I think that's where the season ticket % perhaps is a partial issue. Its become too routine for some rather than realising you're quite lucky being able to watch your team week in week out.

Hopefully the drum is in the lower barclay again and we can give it a go.

[Capt. Pants 4,276]

11 minutes ago, lake district canary said:

Just noticed this line.  I'm one of the thousands of supporters who can't easily get to matches through distance, finances and family commitments, but I'm still a supporter.  That is why I say that people who do go have a responsibility - you are there representing the rest of us who can't.

Easy telling others what to do isn't it. I will get behind the team like I always do and try to leave the ground with a clear conscience that I have supported the team as best I can.

I absolutely do not have any responsibility for those who choose not to be there for whatever reason.

[lake district canary 4,545]

4 minutes ago, Capt. Pants said:

Easy telling others what to do isn't it. I will get behind the team like I always do and try to leave the ground with a clear conscience that I have supported the team as best I can.

I absolutely do not have any responsibility for those who choose not to be there for whatever reason.

For many, it is not a choice.

[nutty nigel 7,607]

Let's hope Onel is fit. He does more to lift the crowd than these daft appeals. With 20,000 renewing we need to get Onel's contract sorted ASAP.

[Mr.Carrow 378]

31 minutes ago, Red Lion Canaries said:

South H has been on general sale for home games this season and is almost sold out for today.  That's just over 1,000 seats.  A chunk of G went on sale a few days ago for today, maybe another 600 (with some home/away fan gap rows) and it is sold out for today now - right next to what's going to be a super poor away support only in F block.  Maybe these groups of mates that are apparently out there have bought lots of them.

And often that block is one of the most raucous in the ground. But it'sstill limited- you all have to be ok with sitting in that part of the ground, you have to be aware that those seats have gone on sale and one of you has to be organised enough to corral  membership numbers/finances etc. That's if they haven't sold out by then. Casual fans are just that. Casual. If you've tried multiple times in the past only to be told it's sold out, you  can all sit together behind a pillar or split into ones and twos , or you pay £40 to go to find yourselves surrounded by old farts moaning about the latest scapegoat people tend to drift away. For the Millwall home game 5 of us bought tickets on the back row of the "Community Corner" only for the stewards to spend half of the game telling us to sit down because "if we let you stand, everyone else will ". Suffice to say several of the group haven't been urgently trying to go again. It's telling that grounds that still have an intimidating atmosphere such as Sheffield United and Millwall rarely sell out meaning it's incredibly straightforward to buy large groups of tickets right up until kick off. 

[The Real Buh 3,480]

There is so much to unpack from the “what’s wrong with the support?” Question. It’s not a single thing.

Everything from:

>pandemic, ripped up the fanbase, ruined our experience. Literally won the league with no fans, hard to celebrate that.
>Webber, just…Webber 
>these mysterious middle management people making the matchday a cringey nightmare

>football generally becoming more and more politicised and divisive rather than just a good time

>uncertainty of our future as a club financially or ownership

>uncertain identity, literally told we don’t deserve to be in the premier league even if we earn it

>exhaustion from promotion/relegation 

>unique perspective of how wrong the premier league is. Nobody excited about getting smashed every week.

>hoping for a more regular season fixture wise but fixtures being totally fragmented by Sky 

>lack of connection with players, lack of personalities to get behind compared to seasons past

>refereeing, it’s worth bringing up. It’s a national problem across the leagues all teams they are just getting worse and worse for everyone.

>really bad communication from the club on practically everything. They’ve thrown a fence around everything that’s done and just want us to turn up and clap. Really bizzare.

just a few out loud thoughts. There’s a lot more, but it’s complex

time will help, but so will some proactive stuff from the club. I honestly think sacking 70/80% of middle management would go a long way

The last home game featured an alarm going off to tell everyone that the teams were in the tunnels, who signed off on this cringey s41t?

 

 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,590]

1 hour ago, Capt. Pants said:

And there are many you describe who do make the effort week in week out, year in year out. Stop being judgemental on fans you know little about.

Wagner is just rousing support, no need to take it further than that.

I'm surprised you are not coming today btw.

There was a lot of resentment of Smith for 'blaming the fans', but Wagner's doing exactly the same.

It's a judgement of the collective effort. Doubtless, some fans are great at supporting the team noisily, but clearly many aren't or Wagner wouldn't need to keep saying it.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Mello Yello 2,302]

If during today's game from my padded plastic pew I'm unable to hear the clickety clack of knitting needles, or hear the flipping through of well thumbed pages of Horse and Hounds magazines, or hear someone being aghast after finding a lump of lead shot in yesterday's pheasant dinner, or hear the continuous rustling of Werther's wrappers, or hear people discussing varicose veins, persistent prostate problems, extensions to their barn conversions, or hear that their Barbour jacket and hat need re-waterproofing, or hear which colour hair rinse to use, or hear that their damned 4x4 clutch's bleedin' slipping, or hear of hip and knee replacement successes.....Or finally, that the resident 'Oink' 'squeal' biscuit bandits aren't prematurely and disruptively rising and vacating their seats on 37 minutes - just in order to get their grubby hands and pockets full of first dibs of decent cookies an' coffee (or beverage on offer) in the Cathedral Lounge.....

I then know....that the team's currently performing quite well on the pitch....

[nutty nigel 7,607]

I think the main reason is that old saying "misery loves company". It can be the only reason so many renewed. 

It also seems "Misery gets bored with company" by the 80th minute...

 

 

[Feedthewolf 4,871]

16 minutes ago, The Real Buh said:

The last home game featured an alarm going off to tell everyone that the teams were in the tunnels, who signed off on this cringey s41t?

Agree with a lot of what you say there Buh, and a lot of the reasons you put forward.

I would say though, stuff like the alarm and the American announcer are worth a shot, I applaud the club for mixing it up a bit. If everyone says it sucks, they don't do it again, and what have we lost? But it does at least show a willingness to try to engage with different (younger) elements of the fanbase, thus at least trying to address one of the problems we both acknowledge.