Will we now stop buying/loaning injured players ?

[CANARYKING 644]

Ramsey and Hayden now added to the list that also includes Byram  ( what’s happening with him  )

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,865]

To be fair, Ramsey was fully fit when we signed him and only got injured four months later.

[nutty nigel 7,649]

Ramsey was fully fit and well worth the loan. We are poorer without him. I don't and never have understood the negativity around Ramsey. He was close to MOM every time he played. Think some people just get off on moaning about everything.

[king canary 7,681]

7 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Ramsey and Hayden now added to the list that also includes Byram  ( what’s happening with him  )

Ramsey and Hayden are not remotely comparable? Hayden came in injured without having played for 6 months. Ramsey just got injured, you can't account for that.

[cambridgeshire canary 6,833]

No beacuse with our model of low money spent and low wages taking gambles on injured players is a part of our transfer stratergy as it's all we can afford.

[CANARYKING 644]

Apologies for adding Ramsey to the list

[Mason 47 1,403]

9 minutes ago, nutty nigel said:

Ramsey was fully fit and well worth the loan. We are poorer without him. I don't and never have understood the negativity around Ramsey. He was close to MOM every time he played. Think some people just get off on moaning about everything.

Think it was just the Villa/ Smith connection. At one of the home cup games (I forget which) there was a chap who was constantly berating Ramsey for making mistakes, regardless of if it was Springett, Hugill or potentially even Angus Gunn in question at the time.

[Badger 2,413]

11 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

No beacuse with our model of low money spent and low wages taking gambles on injured players is a part of our transfer stratergy as it's all we can afford.

Who has spent more or pays higher wages in this division?

[cambridgeshire canary 6,833]

6 minutes ago, Badger said:

Who has spent more or pays higher wages in this division?

Which we will very soon be halving with fire sales and player wage cuts galore due to our inability to get back to the top flight and it's back to business as usual for us

Edited January 5, 2023 by cambridgeshire canary

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

The list is long. You can add Matthias Norman who arrived injured and others - it’s all you can do when there is no money I guess if you want to avoid the bargain basement 

[WD40 720]

Don’t forget Normann brought into the crucial role of replacing Olly Skipp

[Dean Coneys boots 1,407]

Only he was injured and didn’t 

[Badger 2,413]

1 hour ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

No beacuse with our model of low money spent and low wages taking gambles on injured players is a part of our transfer stratergy as it's all we can afford.

 

52 minutes ago, Badger said:

Who has spent more or pays higher wages in this division?

46 minutes ago, cambridgeshire canary said:

Which we will very soon be halving with fire sales and player wage cuts galore due to our inability to get back to the top flight and it's back to business as usual for us

If/ when we halve our wage bill, we will still be one of the higher wage payers in the Championship.

Your original point was misinformed - we do not have a low wages/ money spent strategy. In the championship we are always likely to be one of the higher spenders on wages/ amortisation simply because we have a greater revenue  than most clubs even without the TV money.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, nutty nigel said:

Ramsey was fully fit and well worth the loan. We are poorer without him.

Looks a quality young player to me. Had only played 18 pro games before joining us and yet hit the ground running straight away with goals and assists.

If only we'd kept £8m-£10m in the piggy bank to make an offer on him instead of Tsoliz or Rashica, what an investment that would have been for the next few seasons.

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

Who has spent more or pays higher wages in this division?

Well I should certainly hope our wage bill isn't higher than Burnley's considering they have a squad full of experienced pros like Charlie Taylor, Jack Cork, Jay Rodriguez, Ashley Barnes, Ashley Westwood. If it is then something has gone horribly wrong at our club.

When we look at the quality of our squad, or lack of quality rather, then having one of the highest wage bills right now wouldn't be a badge of honour, it would be a disgrace. 

I should imagine Watford have several players earning more than our top earner though, to answer your question. They paid £30m for Sarr, when a fee is that high there is no doubt the player and their agent knows their value when sitting at a table negotiating a contract.

If Tim Krul (allegedly our highest earner) is earning more than Ismaila Sarr then again, something has gone terribly wrong. 

Edited January 5, 2023 by TeemuVanBasten

[Creedence Clearwater Couto 1,297]

1 hour ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

To be fair, Ramsey was fully fit when we signed him and only got injured four months later.

Not on here, please.

[Deptford Yellow 260]

1 hour ago, WD40 said:

Don’t forget Normann brought into the crucial role of replacing Olly Skipp

Though turned out he wasn’t that kind of player …

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

2 hours ago, CANARYKING said:

Ramsey and Hayden now added to the list that also includes Byram  ( what’s happening with him  )

When you're on a budget, buying proven injured players with a lont-term injury is one sort of risk, and buying healthy unproven inexperienced types of players is also a risk.

As a club, we have the academy and medical support, so we're equipped to work with both those types of risk in the bid to find players who can take us forward.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,604]

1 hour ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Looks a quality young player to me. Had only played 18 pro games before joining us and yet hit the ground running straight away with goals and assists.

If only we'd kept £8m-£10m in the piggy bank to make an offer on him instead of Tsoliz or Rashica, what an investment that would have been for the next few seasons.

Let's hope Wagner has the connections to bring in that sort of calibre of loan and the wherewithal to get the best out of them as Smith has done with Ramsey.

[Dr Greenthumb 750]

Maybe the club isn’t as appealing as people think it is, or the scouting is shocking

[Deptford Yellow 260]

Let’s hope Wagner knows an undiscovered top drawer bruising crunching midfield tackler and brings him with him !

[essex canary 508]

1 hour ago, Badger said:

 

If/ when we halve our wage bill, we will still be one of the higher wage payers in the Championship.

Your original point was misinformed - we do not have a low wages/ money spent strategy. In the championship we are always likely to be one of the higher spenders on wages/ amortisation simply because we have a greater revenue  than most clubs even without the TV money.

In general, possibly excluding recently relegated clubs, this is true. The other factor though has been the average £20 million per year we have made from player trading which is looking unsustainable going forward. If we quartered our wage bill to around the £28 million that Middlesbrough pay we would probably still be in the top half of money paid in the Championship. The only real difference being given similar average attendances that the owner tops up the money there whereas the Supporters pay out for the injured players and the rest of the non performers at NCFC.

Edited January 5, 2023 by essex canary

[essex canary 508]

42 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

When you're on a budget, buying proven injured players with a lont-term injury is one sort of risk, and buying healthy unproven inexperienced types of players is also a risk.

As a club, we have the academy and medical support, so we're equipped to work with both those types of risk in the bid to find players who can take us forward.

..and provide good earning opportunities for medical professionals in addition to the rest of the entourage.

[CANARYKING 644]

Can’t find it but there is a website of Championship wages, has Gibson our top earner at £50k a week

[essex canary 508]

38 minutes ago, CANARYKING said:

Can’t find it but there is a website of Championship wages, has Gibson our top earner at £50k a week

Explains why his uncle isn't employing him alongside the fact that he can find better quality at a cheaper price.

[Capt. Pants 4,298]

Well if we have a 'list' of 3 injured players, what with Andy O and Idah returning from long term injury we're not doing too bad?

I suppose now that McLean is out for a couple of weeks, we shouldn't be extending his contract...

[Badger 2,413]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

In general, possibly excluding recently relegated clubs, this is true. The other factor though has been the average £20 million per year we have made from player trading which is looking unsustainable going forward. If we quartered our wage bill to around the £28 million that Middlesbrough pay we would probably still be in the top half of money paid in the Championship. The only real difference being given similar average attendances that the owner tops up the money there whereas the Supporters pay out for the injured players and the rest of the non performers at NCFC.

Our  revenues would be higher than most excluding player trading  - our gates are well  above average bigger and we make significantly more from commercial operations. 

[essex canary 508]

3 minutes ago, Badger said:

Our  revenues would be higher than most excluding player trading  - our gates are well  above average bigger and we make significantly more from commercial operations. 

Our controllable income of around £30 million is higher than most (there could be exceptions eg. Leeds in whichever division) but whilst it could support a salary budget still amongst the top half of the Championship would still be very, very modest relative to where we are now. Probably the £30 million needs to finance the salaries whilst £10 million or so broadcast money finances the rest without any PL broadcast receipts or player trading profits.

[Badger 2,413]

2 hours ago, essex canary said:

In general, possibly excluding recently relegated clubs, this is true. The other factor though has been the average £20 million per year we have made from player trading which is looking unsustainable going forward. If we quartered our wage bill to around the £28 million that Middlesbrough pay we would probably still be in the top half of money paid in the Championship. The only real difference being given similar average attendances that the owner tops up the money there whereas the Supporters pay out for the injured players and the rest of the non performers at NCFC.

I have chosen the 18-19 accounts because it  the last time we were without parachute payments + the figures don't have any covid hangover. Even without player sales and parachute money we are one of the top grossing teams in the championship. Our matchday revenue and commercial revenue is near the highest in the division. We have had little debt to finance + have not had big payments going out to shareholders meaning that our budgets are amongst the highest in this division. Cambridge Canary was talking total nonsense when he says that we are a low wage and expenditure club at this level - obviously, it is a different story in the premier league.

1. All the teams above us were in receipt of parachute payments except Cardiff* and Fulham, but we received none. Our profit on player trading for this financial year was only £2 million - there were only 4 clubs lower than this. Fulham, for example, are above us because they made a £14 million profit on player trading.

*(According to Swiss Ramble - but I can't make sense of their figures so he ay have made an error of omission here?)

 

2. Our matchday income is one of the highest for the division (without a cup run).

3. Our commercial revenue is one of the highest in the division.

[Badger 2,413]

17 minutes ago, essex canary said:

Our controllable income of around £30 million is higher than most (there could be exceptions eg. Leeds in whichever division) but whilst it could support a salary budget still amongst the top half of the Championship would still be very, very modest relative to where we are now. Probably the £30 million needs to finance the salaries whilst £10 million or so broadcast money finances the rest without any PL broadcast receipts or player trading profits.

The  following, also from 18-19  for reasons stated above is an interesting comparison - only Leeds and Villa exceeded our non-parachute payment revenues. People will not like it but I'll say it anyway, but in Championship terms we are financial aristocrats: we can compete in both wages and transfers and have an advantage over most. Obviously, however, when we run out of parachute payments, we will probably lose those players on "premier league" contracts, but I'm not sure that is an altogether bad thing.