McNally must be having a right laugh at us

[rock bus 854]

That quote from Webber about last administration p.ing money at the wall now back to haunt him.

His arrogance has effectively ruined our club.

Over his time he has managed to firstly help bu8ld a great squad but now has brought us to a level that is worse than when he arrived.

How much premier league money has he totally wasted on rubbish players?

even worse he has cost us the loss of Farke one of our best ever managers in my opinion.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

Just now, rock bus said:

That quote from Webber about last administration p.ing money at the wall now back to haunt him.

His arrogance has effectively ruined our club.

Over his time he has managed to firstly help bu8ld a great squad but now has brought us to a level that is worse than when he arrived.

How much premier league money has he totally wasted on rubbish players?

even worse he has cost us the loss of Farke one of our best ever managers in my opinion.

By McNally, do you mean the guy everyone was getting the pitchforks out for when we were relegated under Houghton?

Seems to me this nostalgic outlook on McNally is a perfect example of why people should get a grip regarding Webber. The club would be a lot better off if some could learn to look at things in perspective in the here and now instead of 10 years in the past.

 

[Midlands Yellow 4,015]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

By McNally, do you mean the guy everyone was getting the pitchforks out for when we were relegated under Houghton?

Seems to me this nostalgic outlook on McNally is a perfect example of why people should get a grip regarding Webber. The club would be a lot better off if some could learn to look at things in perspective in the here and now instead of 10 years in the past.

 

Do you think Dean found a stream and watched today? 

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,333]

Just now, Midlands Yellow said:

Do you think Dean found a stream and watched today? 

Nah he was too busy on here telling us all what awful fans we are 😉

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

4 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Do you think Dean found a stream and watched today? 

Don't see why he would, what with not having anything to do with us any more.

[AJ 1,224]

Webber has arguably done more than McNally in his time here, but it's hard to compare when we were in very different places under both. Webber has, whether intentionally or not, also pissed money up the wall on poor signings but unfortunately that is the plight of a club in our position. No backing to spend beyond our means, which results in taking punts on affordable potential instead of signing players that can actually keep us in the top tier. 

[TheBaldOne66 693]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

By McNally, do you mean the guy everyone was getting the pitchforks out for when we were relegated under Houghton?

Seems to me this nostalgic outlook on McNally is a perfect example of why people should get a grip regarding Webber. The club would be a lot better off if some could learn to look at things in perspective in the here and now instead of 10 years in the past.

 

Which Houghton was that then? Can’t ever recall him as manager maybe he was hounded out by the fans? Unless of course you mean Hughton 🤣🤣🤣

[Unthink road 132]

1 hour ago, AJ said:

Webber has arguably done more than McNally in his time here, but it's hard to compare when we were in very different places under both. Webber has, whether intentionally or not, also pissed money up the wall on poor signings but unfortunately that is the plight of a club in our position. No backing to spend beyond our means, which results in taking punts on affordable potential instead of signing players that can actually keep us in the top tier. 

We also won the FA youth Cup during McNally's tenure. Sometimes it feels people think Webber invented the youth set up. We have won this title twice in our history, but not under Webber. We have for many years developed talent and have been self sustaining. I do feel Webber comes across as this club did not exist before him. 

[Thirsty Lizard 3,169]

15 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Which Houghton was that then? Can’t ever recall him as manager maybe he was hounded out by the fans? Unless of course you mean Hughton 🤣🤣🤣

Whoosh..................................................................

[KeiranShikari 1,423]

The pissing money quote was to do with infrastructure and I'm sure you know that. At least we have something to show for the Premier League seasons this time. Just smile through the pain.

[rock bus 854]

6 minutes ago, KeiranShikari said:

The pissing money quote was to do with infrastructure and I'm sure you know that. At least we have something to show for the Premier League seasons this time. Just smile through the pain.

My point was mainly highlighting it was an arrogant and stupid thing to say and that he has wasted a LOT (more than McNally) on really poor players.

im not sure i really care how great the training ground is now when we are absolutely rubbish on the pitch…it’s not like there is any evidence that the improved infrastructure is helping us to attract better players!!

[Mello Yello 2,298]

Give Stu his due he has brought us 'Soccerbot'..... which should now be renamed, 'Soccerrot'......

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

3 hours ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Which Houghton was that then? Can’t ever recall him as manager maybe he was hounded out by the fans? Unless of course you mean Hughton 🤣🤣🤣

That's the one. Well done for working it out in spite of the misspelling! 🍻

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

3 hours ago, rock bus said:

My point was mainly highlighting it was an arrogant and stupid thing to say and that he has wasted a LOT (more than McNally) on really poor players.

im not sure i really care how great the training ground is now when we are absolutely rubbish on the pitch…it’s not like there is any evidence that the improved infrastructure is helping us to attract better players!!

Webber has lost money on transfer fees, but he hasn't locked in long-term salary drains like Naismith, which is what did the real damage.

In the final analysis, what attracts better players is a record of winning; putting style ahead of results like a lot of fans seem to now is a train crash in terms of any hope of getting better players to develop the style.

Edited January 2, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Terminally Yellow 2,471]

5 hours ago, rock bus said:

even worse he has cost us the loss of Farke one of our best ever managers in my opinio

Geez, I feel like a ****ing skipped record.

Farke. Is. Responsible. For. Our. Current. Situation.

The guy brought some incredible success. But he had major, major failures too. His role in the transfer dealings has left us up **** creek with barely a fork for a paddle.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Terminally Yellow

[shefcanary 2,435]

Webber has outlived his time to be effective pure and simple. Three years max. After that you get fat. Unless you have a mountain to climb. Come on Mark & Mike, you have a dynasty to build!

[Mengo 825]

7 hours ago, shefcanary said:

Webber has outlived his time to be effective pure and simple. Three years max. After that you get fat. Unless you have a mountain to climb. Come on Mark & Mike, you have a dynasty to build!

2023. Out with the old, in with the new.

Time has arrived .

The common English phrase, out with the old, in with the new, means “it is good to replace old things with new things”—“to get rid of the old and welcome the new.” People often say this phrase when getting a new leader, a new job, a new relationship, or a new style, for example.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by Mengo

[kirku 1,334]

11 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

Geez, I feel like a ****ing skipped record.

Farke. Is. Responsible. For. Our. Current. Situation.

The guy brought some incredible success. But he had major, major failures too. His role in the transfer dealings has left us up **** creek with barely a fork for a paddle.

Maybe you feel like a "****ing skipped record" because people are rightly ignoring such nonsense

[Terminally Yellow 2,471]

12 hours ago, kirku said:

Maybe you feel like a "****ing skipped record" because people are rightly ignoring such nonsense

No I feel like a skipped record because I keep saying it. That's what that particular idiom means. Thanks for your valuable contribution 👍

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

On 02/01/2023 at 23:53, Terminally Yellow said:

Geez, I feel like a ****ing skipped record.

Farke. Is. Responsible. For. Our. Current. Situation.

The guy brought some incredible success. But he had major, major failures too. His role in the transfer dealings has left us up **** creek with barely a fork for a paddle.

I do think that Farke's incredibly long tenure was an abnormality facilitated by the pandemic rather than actually deserved; most clubs would have considered the extent of the failure of the first Premier League campaign to be more than enough grounds for moving on, and arguably the fact that his second attempt got off to an even more miserable start underlines we should have moved on from Farke much sooner than we did, especially as it's becoming increasingly clear that the fact that he was personally very likable has distorted perceptions of his tenure massively.

Like it or not, he will have had a huge influence on the players we had in that  first Premier league effort and  the second Premier League effort. Ultimately, his paradigm was a dead end as far as establishing in the Premier League was concerned.

I suspect at rock bottom the main division over Farke comes down to whether people are happier to be big fish in a smaller pond, or be a small fish in a bigger pond with a chance of getting bigger. Personally, I'd be alright with either if only people would make up their minds which it is.

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

So you’d be ‘alright with either’ but are criticising others for not making up their mind.

Clearly not prepared to make up your own mind and need the ‘people’ whoever they are to reach a consensus before you finalise your stance. 

Here’s my position, I know you LOVE to hear it. Daniel Farke presided over the most feel good period I have witnessed as a Norwich fan. He was less successful in the Premier League than Lambert, but the Lambert departure and subsequent tumble down to the Championship was a situation brought about by Lambert being a bit of a ladder climber and NCFC ownership cutting our cloth. In the following years we had some dross and then a great run under Alex N and a playoff win to live long in my memory, but ultimately the EPL was already a different animal from where it had been when we left it and we were not equipped financially to compete. Roll in Farke and after a set up season where green shoots were evident if inconsistent (FAR more evident than Smith I’m clear about saying) he led us to two dominant championships in three years. He however was also met with the even further detached EPL but the same restricted funding so our demise felt inevitable, but the optimist in me felt that the trigger was pulled that touch too soon and we bottled it. 
Its not a binary choice between being a big fish in a small pond or a small fish in a big one though. It’s a choice between supporting your club and its future wherever that future resides at that time in its existence. Right now we are a financial minnow in the second tier, but a team striving to perform and develop players and achieve success within our means, but also see if we can replicate that at the top. We don’t need to accept either binary label, we just need to accept we will always try to perform at our best with the best. We were veering downwards and not competing with even the mediocre of the second tier under the recently ousted coaching team, that was clear to see. 

Edited January 3, 2023 by SwearyCanary

[Midlands Yellow 4,015]

8 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I do think that Farke's incredibly long tenure was an abnormality facilitated by the pandemic rather than actually deserved; most clubs would have considered the extent of the failure of the first Premier League campaign to be more than enough grounds for moving on, and arguably the fact that his second attempt got off to an even more miserable start underlines we should have moved on from Farke much sooner than we did, especially as it's becoming increasingly clear that the fact that he was personally very likable has distorted perceptions of his tenure massively.

Like it or not, he will have had a huge influence on the players we had in that  first Premier league effort and  the second Premier League effort. Ultimately, his paradigm was a dead end as far as establishing in the Premier League was concerned.

I suspect at rock bottom the main division over Farke comes down to whether people are happier to be big fish in a smaller pond, or be a small fish in a bigger pond with a chance of getting bigger. Personally, I'd be alright with either if only people would make up their minds which it is.

Farke sacked far too late but Dean Smith should still be here!! Interesting thoughts. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

25 minutes ago, Midlands Yellow said:

Farke sacked far too late but Dean Smith should still be here!! Interesting thoughts. 

There's no contradiction here. At that stage, Farke's record with us was a first season with no promotion, a second promotion season, and a relegation from the Premier League with a catastrophic points tally with a squad built to his philosophy. That's three whole seasons in contrast to Smith who had not one complete season to mould things.

 

[Worthy Nigelton 1,058]

For those knocking Farke, read Michael Bailey's article in The Athletic about last season. He's not to blame for any of the signings over the past couple of years.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

Just now, Worthy Nigelton said:

For those knocking Farke, read Michael Bailey's article in The Athletic about last season. He's not to blame for any of the signings over the past couple of years.

Nobody's 'to blame' for signings. Farke wasn't, Smith wasn't, and Webber isn't either. None of them were to blame for parts of our scouting team getting headhunted at key times and deciding to leave us in the lurch in a transfer window.

We compete with other teams with more financial muscle and better reputations to sign every player on the market. That's just reality and the reason the Atanasios getting involved is welcome... if people want to secure in the Premier League at the expense of becoming a more corporate club.

What Farke did have that Smith didn't was complete seasons to work with the players, and guide their development, which he needed before we started getting results. But he got more than that when he was allowed to continue in spite of a truly drastic failure way beyond anything Smith can be accused of given the preparation time he'd had.

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,827]

On 02/01/2023 at 22:53, Terminally Yellow said:

Geez, I feel like a ****ing skipped record.

Farke. Is. Responsible. For. Our. Current. Situation.

The guy brought some incredible success. But he had major, major failures too. His role in the transfer dealings has left us up **** creek with barely a fork for a paddle.

Apparently Farke's idea of a transfer strategy in the summer 2021 was completely the opposite to Webber's. 

We did what Webber wanted.

[Terminally Yellow 2,471]

30 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Apparently Farke's idea of a transfer strategy in the summer 2021 was completely the opposite to Webber's. 

We did what Webber wanted.

And yet he came out and said he'd be disappointed if we just finished 17th. Remember that? 

To say he didn't have a say in transfer dealings is wrong. 

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

31 minutes ago, Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man said:

Apparently Farke's idea of a transfer strategy in the summer 2021 was completely the opposite to Webber's. 

We did what Webber wanted.

What's the evidence for this?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,565]

3 minutes ago, Terminally Yellow said:

And yet he came out and said he'd be disappointed if we just finished 17th. Remember that? 

To say he didn't have a say in transfer dealings is wrong. 

I loved Farke's time in charge as much as anybody, but I'd say this rose-tinted nostalgic view of him has become damaging and contributed hugely to Smith not getting proper support in the difficult task he had.

But if people can learn from their mistakes over Smith in affording whoever comes next a proper chance then there's some value to this episode at least.

Edited January 4, 2023 by littleyellowbirdie

[Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm Flailing Tube Man 3,827]

2 hours ago, Terminally Yellow said:

And yet he came out and said he'd be disappointed if we just finished 17th. Remember that? 

To say he didn't have a say in transfer dealings is wrong. 

I'm not saying that he didn't have a say, but his plan was different from Webber went with.

 

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

What's the evidence for this?

Michael Bailey's review of last season:

https://theathletic.com/3284500/2022/04/30/a-complete-failure-the-story-of-norwich-citys-relegation-from-the-premier-league?source=user-shared-article

 

"Farke made it clear that this time he wanted to add Premier League experience to the group. An elite level centre-back was top of his list, with a defensive midfielder not far behind to replace the sizeable hole left by Tottenham loanee Oliver Skipp.

Both signings were deemed essential, given they would be in the spine of the team. Those positions would get exposed in the top flight if they did not get it right, unlike wider roles that can be more flexible in tactics and personnel.

Then there was the matter of replacing Buendia: a key offensive player who had added crucial goals and another level of performance to his game in the 2020-21 Championship. His understanding with striker Teemu Pukki was viewed by coaching staff as near-telepathic, and his influence on so much of Norwich’s offensive behaviour was obvious.

Sporting director Stuart Webber made sure the Argentinian’s £33 million move to Villa was completed early and he swiftly went on record to say it was unrealistic to have expected Buendia to stay. His heart was already set on a move, although sources are adamant there was no previous agreement between the club and player to sell him following last season’s promotion.

Even those that loved working with him believed the fee paid by Villa was more than he was worth.

Still, some question whether Buendia’s sale sent a signal to the rest of the squad over what Norwich’s prospects would really be. Brentford and Watford, the other two promoted clubs, were both dismissive of offers they received for their attacking stars Ivan Toney and Ismaila Sarr.

Perhaps the bigger issue, though, was what happened next.

Farke indicated he wanted the money generated by Buendia’s sale spent on three signings: a centre-back, a holding midfielder and a forward to directly replace the then 24-year-old South American. The reality for the club was that the money would have to cover the majority of Norwich’s summer recruitment.

At this point, things get muddled.

Norwich made nine signings in all, if you ignore the transition of loans into permanent moves for Ben Gibson and Dimitris Giannoulis — effectively long-term replacements for the summer 2020 sales of Ben Godfrey and Jamal Lewis.

The initial plan was to limit the size of the squad and pose the challenge of keeping that tight group as fit as possible. Norwich had seen that as a strength of Burnley, who had survived for five years among the elite after their own two promotions in three seasons under the same head coach in 2014 and 2016.

But then a fear took over that the training regime under Farke would bring injuries and Norwich would get caught short.

On reflection, the club know now that they signed too many players and spread their budget too thin. Half the signings made in the bracket between £10 million to £15 million may have worked. Instead, Norwich found themselves with a squad that struggled to compete.

They also tried to avoid giving up on their top targets as quickly as they did two summers ago, hoping patience would be rewarded with better quality signings.

It did not work."