Time to filter

[canarybubbles 1,980]

39 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm not defending him; I'm criticising you for unjust and unsubstantiated attacks on him stated like they're facts rather than your own jaundiced opinion.

I don't know what you consider to be a fact but 9th-10th-9th with a team which had reached the play-offs the season before and which reached them again and eventually got promoted when he left is a fact. A brute fact, in my opinion.

And I suspect many posters would agree with me in asking you not to hijack every interesting thread on this forum and turn it into an interminable squabble about the same topic.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,629]

2 minutes ago, kick it off said:

That doesn't even make sense.

I've asked you what facts I'm missing, you can't give me a single one. Not one.

I build my opinions based on facts. I've outlined very clearly what my opinion is and why I think it. You have repeatedly attacked it with no explanation or counter.

Either put up or shut up, it's boring.

I'm happy to listen to your opinion, the "facts" that support it and discuss reasonably. I'm not prepared to sit here listening to you whine about me being wrong with literally nothing to support or substantiate your assertion. 

But we all know you won't offer any facts, as you have no interest in sensible debate, just a bizarre attention seeking crusade to disagree with everybody else in the room. 

Again, happy to discuss with you if you do want to discuss, but either put up something worth discussing, or shut up.

Let's see where we are at the end of the season. Fingers crossed you're not as stupid as I think you are.

[kick it off 1,962]

2 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Let's see where we are at the end of the season. Fingers crossed you're not as stupid as I think you are.

Good, shut up was the right option when you've got nothing to support your ludicrous assertions. If we're above midtable at the end of the season, then that's progress above where Smith was taking us.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,629]

2 minutes ago, kick it off said:

Good, shut up was the right option when you've got nothing to support your ludicrous assertions. If we're above midtable at the end of the season, then that's progress above where Smith was taking us.

Your own assertions are ludicrous; you're too stupid to understand what's wrong with them.

We're in the top 6 half way in the season, so mid-table at the end of the season is categorically not progress; more evidence of your limited capacity for rational thought.

Edited December 28, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[astro 386]

Looks like birdie got a fishing rod and reel for Christmas….

[aBee 152]

27 minutes ago, canarybubbles said:

I don't know what you consider to be a fact but 9th-10th-9th with a team which had reached the play-offs the season before and which reached them again and eventually got promoted when he left is a fact. A brute fact, in my opinion.

And I suspect many posters would agree with me in asking you not to hijack every interesting thread on this forum and turn it into an interminable squabble about the same topic.

Slightly too brute fact I think. When Smith joined Brentford in late 2015 we’d made an absolute mess of appointing Warburton’s successor and got in Marinus Dijkuisen who had pretty much lost the confidence of the owner before the season began by his approach. The club had tried to change too many things, bringing in a load of foreign players who either got injured or took a long time to settle, and sold/lost several of the key players from the season before.
 

Warburton’s team had overperformed and even on the final day of the season could have finished 8th had other results not lined up (PS DO NOT APPOINT WARBURTON). So 9th in Smith’s first season was good taking over in the circumstances he did. The next 2 seasons we stayed in contention until late but didn’t have a big squad and sold key players. 
 

When he left for Villa, we were 6th and finished 11th. That team had a lot of good players who’ve gone on to do well in the PL and I think he could have got it to top 6 (we were only 10 points off in the end despite Thomas Frank’s starting run being W1 D1 L8). 
 

Smith was good with good recruitment and a patient owner looking at longer term development and fans who had the expectation level of people who knew their club hadn’t spent more than one season in a row as high as the second tier since the last King. He will take a team to the level of the quality of its available players, no higher and no lower. 

[dylanisabaddog 5,131]

1 hour ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Let's see where we are at the end of the season. Fingers crossed you're not as stupid as I think you are.

He's definitely not as stupid as you're making yourself look. In fact he seems quite rational and intelligent to me.

Did you have a bad Christmas? 

[canarydan23 4,165]

14 minutes ago, dylanisabaddog said:

He's definitely not as stupid as you're making yourself look. In fact he seems quite rational and intelligent to me.

Did you have a bad Christmas? 

Yeah, this discourse is bordering on another littleyellowbirdie meltdown.

"Your argument doesn't have facts"

"Your argument has facts, but not the ones I like"

"I have a much better case than yours to prove my point but I'm not going to tell you what it is"

You just know when he was (is?) at school he was the one with a really hot girlfriend but she was at another school and no you definitely wouldn't know her.

[Petriix 2,860]

1 hour ago, aBee said:

He will take a team to the level of the quality of its available players, no higher and no lower.

Given that we still have 9 of the first choice 11 which won the Championship with 97 points, either Farke massively over achieved or Smith hasn't taken this team close to 'the level of the quality of its available players'.

I suspect it's a bit of both but I really do think Smith is very limited in his tactics, or certainly his ability to play a system suited to the strengths of the players he has. My biggest criticism of him is that he always seemed to be reacting to the opposition rather than asserting any kind of plan of his own and, with so many changes to the team and formation, the players really struggled for any kind of cohesion or consistency. 

[Petriix 2,860]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Let's see where we are at the end of the season. Fingers crossed you're not as stupid as I think you are.

OMFG you are really dragging down every thread you get involved in. Maybe you need to take some time away from the forum. It's really beyond a joke now. 

[TheGunnShow 6,174]

2 hours ago, Creedence Clearwater Couto said:

Ah sorry, gotcha.

RE Warburton, before being appointed Brentford Manager he was heavily involved with their recruitment. So a sound argument to say he benefitted from his own previous work. 

 

That's a very strong argument FOR Warburton for me, as our scouting has been decidedly hit-and-miss.

[ron obvious 1,523]

Whoever we get has to be ambitious & seriously motivated, feelings I never got from Smith. Unfortunately, personally speaking, I want someone who's a decent human being, which often rules out the main requirements above. Lambert was the epitome of a brilliant manager who I didn't like, Farke a brilliant one that I also happened to like.

Anyway I think our best hope is an unknown, as were those two, who will believe our club has the potential to be a respectable PL level club. Obviously it'll be a gamble; we can only hope the board have learnt from previous experience & get it right. But the last thing we need is somebody else who's a bit too philosophical about defeat & doesn't really have anything at stake, which did ultimately seem to be the case with Smith.

Not a clue as to who would fit the bill, but then that's true by my own definition.

[Jimmy Raggatip 64]

19 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Given that we still have 9 of the first choice 11 which won the Championship with 97 points, either Farke massively over achieved or Smith hasn't taken this team close to 'the level of the quality of its available players'.

and a little sprinkling of Father Time

[Robert N. LiM 4,715]

21 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Given that we still have 9 of the first choice 11 which won the Championship with 97 points

Only fair to say that Farke wouldn't have got 97 points without those missing two! 

[OnDaBall 137]

I suppose the question is what are the board looking for in the next boss, is it an instant boast and a short term serious attempt at promotion this season, while we have a relatively good squad and chance of going up? Or another long term project, someone who may need a couple of seasons to build a team on their image?

My guess is the former, they'll be desperate to get back up, come what may, for that massive cash injection and worry about next season then. If that is the case then expect a Parker, Dyche type appointment. Russell is a long term type appointment as is Gerrard, or even another gem unknown from Europe.

How would we all feel with a short term caretaker with experience of big clubs/promotion, to drag us up in any way that works then get a long term manager in the summer? 

[aBee 152]

43 minutes ago, TheGunnShow said:

That's a very strong argument FOR Warburton for me, as our scouting has been decidedly hit-and-miss.

Warburton left Brentford because he didn’t buy into the recruitment model in the direction it was going. One of the reasons for the big player turnover the summer he left was that he’d created a very loyal and tight knit group of players loyal to him who’d made the owner feel unwelcome at the club. 
 

He had been DoF in L1 before the model had been fully put in place (which happened first at FCM in Denmark) and relied a lot on the early scouting and contacts he’d made in European youth football before joining but didn’t have a longer term eye as you can see from his subsequent career. 

[aBee 152]

58 minutes ago, Petriix said:

Given that we still have 9 of the first choice 11 which won the Championship with 97 points, either Farke massively over achieved or Smith hasn't taken this team close to 'the level of the quality of its available players'.

I suspect it's a bit of both but I really do think Smith is very limited in his tactics, or certainly his ability to play a system suited to the strengths of the players he has. My biggest criticism of him is that he always seemed to be reacting to the opposition rather than asserting any kind of plan of his own and, with so many changes to the team and formation, the players really struggled for any kind of cohesion or consistency. 

I think Buendia and Skipp made up for a lot of the deficiencies of the other 9 and lifted their levels (cf how Eriksen lifted the performances of several of our players last season). I think it is somewhat telling how little interest in buying the other 9 there has been. 

[TheGunnShow 6,174]

6 minutes ago, aBee said:

Warburton left Brentford because he didn’t buy into the recruitment model in the direction it was going. One of the reasons for the big player turnover the summer he left was that he’d created a very loyal and tight knit group of players loyal to him who’d made the owner feel unwelcome at the club. 
 

He had been DoF in L1 before the model had been fully put in place (which happened first at FCM in Denmark) and relied a lot on the early scouting and contacts he’d made in European youth football before joining but didn’t have a longer term eye as you can see from his subsequent career. 

OK, that's a big strike against. Thanks for that club insight.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,629]

 

2 hours ago, Petriix said:

OMFG you are really dragging down every thread you get involved in. Maybe you need to take some time away from the forum. It's really beyond a joke now. 

How am I dragging it down? The received wisdom according to KIO and co has been that Smith is a clueless clown who has just been lucky all his 10 year career and has had  a squad who should be walking the league; practically any manager should do better based on those arguments. So whoever we get, that's the benchmark we have to see whether the received wisdom of Buh, TvB, KIO etc. was actually any good starting from a benchmark of half a season elapsed with us in 5th.

What's there to disagree with in this statement?

Edited December 28, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,474]

Whenever I see LYB has commented.......

 

Looks like another meltdown incoming...... 

Edited December 28, 2022 by GodlyOtsemobor

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,474]

4 hours ago, canarydan23 said:

Yeah, this discourse is bordering on another littleyellowbirdie meltdown.

"Your argument doesn't have facts"

"Your argument has facts, but not the ones I like"

"I have a much better case than yours to prove my point but I'm not going to tell you what it is"

You just know when he was (is?) at school he was the one with a really hot girlfriend but she was at another school and no you definitely wouldn't know her.

Reminds of the geezer down the pub who knows more about everything and has done more in all aspects of life than you... And if you've done something spectacular in life... They've done it twice. 

[SwearyCanary 1,179]

5 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

 

How am I dragging it down? The received wisdom according to KIO and co has been that Smith is a clueless clown who has just been lucky all his 10 year career and has had  a squad who should be walking the league; practically any manager should do better based on those arguments. So whoever we get, that's the benchmark we have to see whether the received wisdom of Buh, TvB, KIO etc. was actually any good starting from a benchmark of half a season elapsed with us in 5th.

What's there to disagree with in this statement?

I see earlier you mention he’s ‘only’ been sacked twice in a 10 year career. I’m not sure how this is much of a defence? That seems like a pretty mediocre to poor record. 

I notice though that you’ve not pledged to thank everyone if it does all work out. 

Id feel sorry for everyone piling on you if you weren’t so unpleasant to everyone, calling them stupid and what not.