Who would you say is the worst england player you have seen?

[cornish sam 953]

Just now, Barham Blitz said:

Walker was - for a time - one of the best centre backs in Europe - really quick, great timer of tackles, read the game pretty well. 

Then he just inexplicably lost it.  Don't know if he got an injury or lost some pace or confidence or what, but he just plummeted.  I have a vague memory of an unhappy spell in Italian football where he ended up being played at fullback as being either the cause or a symptom of a sudden decline, but couldn't swear to the reason.

Really? I obviously have forgotten about the bit before he lost it and looking through a list of players from that era have conflated with Paul Parker, combining the worst of both of them.

[sgncfc 1,228]

Carlton Palmer.

Geoff Thomas is a close second but raises shedloads of money for charity so Carlton wins.

If we are talking "value for money" though, Harry Maguire takes some beating.

[Newtopia 517]

3 hours ago, cornish sam said:

On the HTF stakes, how did Des Walker get almost 60 caps?!?

Des Walker was the best defender in the country for a long time, my memory might have be a little off, but he was incredibly quick, with great positioning yet was poor with the ball at his feet - seem to think he was caught out when they changed the rules on back passes.

[Newtopia 517]

5 hours ago, cornish sam said:

Interesting question as it could be (and seems to be) interpretedany different ways. For example:

Luther blisset may have been an awful player for England but there is no way he was actually an awful player.

Jay boothroyd was a pretty crap player who played for England 

And then the likes of John fashanu or Joey Barton are awful people who played for England but were actually alright on the football pitch (not great for either of those I'll grant you)

Fashanu was an awful footballer - he was good with his elbows.

[If wed kept Howie.. 208]

some ridiculous suggestions on this thread.

[Big Vince 318]

10 hours ago, Newtopia said:

Waddle and Wilkins were simply ridiculous- I thought it was troll statement.

Wilkins 3 goals in 83 appearances absolutely deserves to be on the list. C'mon, a midfielder who nets so few in so many games!

[daisy 138]

Danny Mills, crap player and even worse pundit.

[Newtopia 517]

35 minutes ago, Big Vince said:

Wilkins 3 goals in 83 appearances absolutely deserves to be on the list. C'mon, a midfielder who nets so few in so many games!

I would have been happy with 3 goals or 83 appearances.  A pretty tidy record to look back on.

[chicken 2,624]

On 27/09/2022 at 18:13, Commonsense said:

This is a ridiculous list. Wilkins earned 83 caps. Gerry Francis put in some impressive performance. This post is in line with the rubbish you usually post.

This is probably his list of most hated commie England players, they all voted the wrong way for him probably. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 hours ago, If wed kept Howie.. said:

some ridiculous suggestions on this thread.

Some good ones as well though. 

I think Michael Ricketts is the winner.

[chicken 2,624]

10 hours ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Nah, he was a good Premier League centre forward, possibly even a bit unlucky to play at a time when we had so many centre forward options and in another decade might have got more caps. Think he achieved double figures in 5 or 6 seasons in the Prem for weaker sides, and scored 23 one season. 

He was a good number 9. Did have a couple of seasons at the end when he looked fat and slow and should have dropped down a level, which might have damaged his legacy (and your perception) somewhat. 

Yeah, that's why I put the perhaps. A bit like Kevin Davies, who he was signed to replace incidentally. Beattie struggled for consistency though, a much injury interrupted career. I suspect if he had been more consistent he would have been more regular for England and for better sides. 

Going on wiki, which isn't greatly reliable, 13 seasons in the prem, of which 5 he hit double figures. I'm discarding the first two when he was 18-20 because that seems a tad harsh when he made only a handful of subs and wouldn't have been considered a regular.

Highest scoring season was with Southampton in 2002-2003 when he scored 24 goals. Suffice to say he never got close to that again. He scored 17 the following season. Three seasons after that he made double figures in the premier league for the last time with 11, for Everton, having failed to do so for the two intervening seasons. 

For the two seasons before getting 24, he first got 12, then 14. His England cap came in 2003.

I think he's one of those players that looked full of potential, but never really cut it. I admit though, on paper he is better than Beckford and Ricketts. Though he also had a lot more hype... I remember the Ricketts cap being greeted with humour at the time, let alone after.

The Kevin Davies cap was met with equal amount of bemusement, many felt as a long time premier league player he perhaps deserved recognition but his highest ever premier league goal tally was 12, which he achieved twice, once in 97-98 and again in 2008-09. Otherwise he got double figures twice on other occasions with a total of ten. His highest ever goal tally in a season was 13, in the old 3rd Division in 94-95...

Mind boggles that our very own Christ Sutton was never capped by the full England squad... though I suspect that was more to do with a real plethora of tallent at the time, though the early 2000's was probably a little less full of Gazza and Sheringham standing in his way. Shearer still, Owen and Heskey... 

[chicken 2,624]

2 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Some good ones as well though. 

I think Michael Ricketts is the winner.

Between him and Jeffers I reckon. 

Jeffers never got 15 goals in a premier league campaign, Ricketts managed that the once apparently. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

27 minutes ago, chicken said:

Yeah, that's why I put the perhaps. A bit like Kevin Davies, who he was signed to replace incidentally. Beattie struggled for consistency though, a much injury interrupted career. I suspect if he had been more consistent he would have been more regular for England and for better sides. 

Going on wiki, which isn't greatly reliable, 13 seasons in the prem, of which 5 he hit double figures. I'm discarding the first two when he was 18-20 because that seems a tad harsh when he made only a handful of subs and wouldn't have been considered a regular.

Highest scoring season was with Southampton in 2002-2003 when he scored 24 goals. Suffice to say he never got close to that again. He scored 17 the following season. Three seasons after that he made double figures in the premier league for the last time with 11, for Everton, having failed to do so for the two intervening seasons. 

For the two seasons before getting 24, he first got 12, then 14. His England cap came in 2003.

I think he's one of those players that looked full of potential, but never really cut it. I admit though, on paper he is better than Beckford and Ricketts. Though he also had a lot more hype... I remember the Ricketts cap being greeted with humour at the time, let alone after.

The Kevin Davies cap was met with equal amount of bemusement, many felt as a long time premier league player he perhaps deserved recognition but his highest ever premier league goal tally was 12, which he achieved twice, once in 97-98 and again in 2008-09. Otherwise he got double figures twice on other occasions with a total of ten. His highest ever goal tally in a season was 13, in the old 3rd Division in 94-95...

Mind boggles that our very own Christ Sutton was never capped by the full England squad... though I suspect that was more to do with a real plethora of tallent at the time, though the early 2000's was probably a little less full of Gazza and Sheringham standing in his way. Shearer still, Owen and Heskey... 

Chris Sutton did get 1 cap. 

Then blew it by refusing to play for the B Team.

[chicken 2,624]

7 minutes ago, TeemuVanBasten said:

Chris Sutton did get 1 cap. 

Then blew it by refusing to play for the B Team.

My bad, for some reason I thought he'd been capped by the B Team but then refused to play for them again then got ignored for the England full team even though they then ditched the B Team... 

Still, how the hell did he get just one cap? 

Actually, to add to that, Huckerby got one England B cap... That's probably another poll worth having a shot at. The best player to never get a full England cap... or perhaps even an international cap at all?! 

Edited September 28, 2022 by chicken

[glory.win or die. 270]

Carlton Palmer 

[chicken 2,624]

12 hours ago, TheRock said:

Andy Cole is worth an honourable mention too.

He was dynamite for years with Newcastle and later Man Utd, but simultaneously terrible for England during that period. 

I think he suffered from not being Alan Shearer to be honest. 

I do think some players just don't translate for various reasons, to international football. Sometimes it's because they are so in tune with the players around them at club level.

When you look at the Man Utd team Cole was part of, you can see why he scored goals. Him and Dwight Yorke were the strike pairing of the Premier League for a good couple of seasons at least. Both had a turn of speed, Yorke had that unpredictable skill and you had class through that side.

You look at the England side back then, very different players, Shearer was much the better fit, and was a much better all round footballer IMHO. I think it spoke volumes about his footballing brain and ability that like Madonna, he managed to reinvent himself after what could easily have been a career ending injury. Going from a foil for a 9 like Sutton to being the 9 for players like Bellamy. From used to facing defences and running at them to playing with his back to goal.

Not sure Cole had that. 

[TeemuVanBasten 3,327]

3 hours ago, chicken said:

My bad, for some reason I thought he'd been capped by the B Team but then refused to play for them again then got ignored for the England full team even though they then ditched the B Team... 

Still, how the hell did he get just one cap? 

Actually, to add to that, Huckerby got one England B cap... That's probably another poll worth having a shot at. The best player to never get a full England cap... or perhaps even an international cap at all?! 

Steve Bruce never got one, despite being an important part of an excellent Fergie side.

[Barham Blitz 653]

13 hours ago, chicken said:

That's probably another poll worth having a shot at. The best player to never get a full England cap... or perhaps even an international cap at all?! 

Ian Crook.

Jimmy Case was an odd one if only for the fact that he was a starter in a very good Liverpool team when England weren't very good.

Going back a bit my rabid Evertonian father in law always names Howard Kendall as the best player never to have got a full England cap.  But he might be almost as biased as I am with Chippy ...

[TheRock 171]

10 hours ago, chicken said:

I think he suffered from not being Alan Shearer to be honest. 

I do think some players just don't translate for various reasons, to international football. Sometimes it's because they are so in tune with the players around them at club level.

When you look at the Man Utd team Cole was part of, you can see why he scored goals. Him and Dwight Yorke were the strike pairing of the Premier League for a good couple of seasons at least. Both had a turn of speed, Yorke had that unpredictable skill and you had class through that side.

You look at the England side back then, very different players, Shearer was much the better fit, and was a much better all round footballer IMHO. I think it spoke volumes about his footballing brain and ability that like Madonna, he managed to reinvent himself after what could easily have been a career ending injury. Going from a foil for a 9 like Sutton to being the 9 for players like Bellamy. From used to facing defences and running at them to playing with his back to goal.

Not sure Cole had that. 

Yes he never seemed the same player. He was soon shipped out by Sir Alex around the time they got Ruud Van Nistelrooy in, yet Cole was fortunate and still enjoyed a long spell in the Premier League with multiple mid-table clubs after exiting Man Utd.

[Barham Blitz 653]

15 hours ago, chicken said:

Jeffers never got 15 goals in a premier league campaign, Ricketts managed that the once apparently. 

Jeffers is a personal bugbear of mine.

I won a pint once off someone once who was claiming that some club needed a Jeffers type finisher by asking him how many times Francis "Fox in the Box" Jeffers got double figures in a season across all competitions in his 13 year career.

Answer none. 

We then went double or quits on how many of his eleven clubs he had scored double figures for across his entire time with them. 

Answer one - Everton - and that took him  3 seasons.

He never got more than 6 Premiership goals in a season.  He never got more than 7 goals across all competitions in a single season anywhere.  And that includes stints in the Championship, League 2, the Scottish Premiership, the Australian A-League and even the Maltese League.  He only scored more than once in a game 4 times in his entire career and never scored a senior hattrick.

Considering he didn't contribute anything outside the box either, his agent must have been something ...

Although in the interests of balance he did have a weirdly good record for the U21s (13 in 16) and 1 in 1 for the senior England team - from memory his one cap was the same match against Australia as Rooney's debut.  And probably half of the one cap wonders listed here ...

 

[Trevor Hockey's Beard 527]

On 28/09/2022 at 12:40, Barham Blitz said:

Walker was - for a time - one of the best centre backs in Europe - really quick, great timer of tackles, read the game pretty well. 

Then he just inexplicably lost it.  Don't know if he got an injury or lost some pace or confidence or what, but he just plummeted.  I have a vague memory of an unhappy spell in Italian football where he ended up being played at fullback as being either the cause or a symptom of a sudden decline, but couldn't swear to the reason.

Didn't his knees go, and he could barely walk through an entire game, or did his form tail off before then?

[glory.win or die. 270]

Carlton Palmer

although after being introduced to international football by the 1986 panini World Cup sticker album ( still the best one ever imo) my first real memory is Kenny sansom mis kicking a clearance leading to Ray Houghton scoring in 1988 euros so Kenny samson ( pre Park bench)

[Barham Blitz 653]

9 hours ago, Trevor Hockey's Beard said:

Didn't his knees go, and he could barely walk through an entire game, or did his form tail off before then?

Possibly - there was a comment that Marc Overmars was the first player to do him for pace in '94 - the first time it happened in 50 odd international appearances (although to be fair  there weren't many who could keep up with Overmars) - then a couple of other errors before Venables took over and didn't play him.  So it may well have been a loss of pace which coincided with him coming back from Sampdoria.   But he was quality until then.

[TheBaldOne66 682]

Has anyone mentioned Kevin Davies? 

[TheGunnShow 5,940]

3 minutes ago, TheBaldOne66 said:

Has anyone mentioned Kevin Davies? 

Yep, I did on Page 2.

Edited September 30, 2022 by TheGunnShow

[paddycanary 539]

On 29/09/2022 at 21:31, glory.win or die. said:

Carlton Palmer

although after being introduced to international football by the 1986 panini World Cup sticker album ( still the best one ever imo) my first real memory is Kenny sansom mis kicking a clearance leading to Ray Houghton scoring in 1988 euros so Kenny samson ( pre Park bench)

I'm of the Panini Football 90 vintage - never got Disco Dale!

I believe you might be referring to this 😀:

And yes, the answer to the original question is Carlton Palmer. Unsure if he's been mentioned thus far. 

Edited October 1, 2022 by paddycanary

[Midlands Yellow 3,984]

Seth Johnson or Michael ball.