Desperately need a new striker

[norfolkngood 1,110]

i would like to upgrade Hanley then we wouldn't need to score so many goals ! 

[Monty13 2,494]

If we did get another striker I think it depends on two things, Hugill leaving in some capacity and it being a loan. 

That said Sargent proved an able deputy/option last night so if Pukki’s injury isn’t serious not sure it’s needed. More importantly not sure who we can get that’s available, willing to play second fiddle and better than Sargent.

[Feedthewolf 5,199]

6 minutes ago, norfolkngood said:

i would like to upgrade Hanley then we wouldn't need to score so many goals ! 

I think Hanley and Omo is an outstanding partnership at this level. If we get promoted then we will need to upgrade, but I think Hanley is massively dependable and an excellent leader in the Championship.

And as for the Pukki debate, 25+ in the Championship and 10+ in the EPL every season for four years... what more do people want?! Give the guy some slack for crying out loud! Once he gets up to speed he will, as ever, be brilliant this season.

[Yellow Wal 314]

45 minutes ago, hogesar said:

Agreed. At this level, Pukki / Sargent / Idah / Hugill is enough, especially when we primarily play one up-front.

 

But isn't that the problem? When we played with Adam Idah and Teemu together in January that was the best we have played all year. We looked dangerous and we scored goals and we won a few games.

Surely every team that plays against us with Teemu playing up front on his own realise we have little, to no, aerial threat and can adjust their defence accordingly. Playing Teemu and Adam as a two gave us a threat in the air and on the ground.

[hogesar 10,051]

8 minutes ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think Hanley and Omo is an outstanding partnership at this level. If we get promoted then we will need to upgrade, but I think Hanley is massively dependable and an excellent leader in the Championship.

And as for the Pukki debate, 25+ in the Championship and 10+ in the EPL every season for four years... what more do people want?! Give the guy some slack for crying out loud! Once he gets up to speed he will, as ever, be brilliant this season.

Worth noting that Pukki barely had a summer off - which is a shame for us as I felt he needed it. Hopefully like you say, he get's up to speed and once he does, he'll generally speaking score goals.

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

24 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Agree that we could do with more quality amongst our striking options. Hugill, Sargent and Idah all have pretty obvious weaknesses and I'm not sure any of us would be that confident if Pukki were to be injured for any length of time.

But I am staggered by how quick some people have been to write Pukki off. Quite happy to accept he hasn't been at his best in the opening three games, but show the guy some respect. We're so lucky to have him.

In isolation, I would have no concerns that Pukki will get his form back. However, given that his agent publicly stated that he wanted a move, but the club was unlikely to allow it, you have to be concerned as to whether the reason for a drop of form comes down to having no enthusiasm as a result of feeling trapped. 

By all accounts, though, Sargeant revelled in playing the centre forward role, so maybe it's time to say goodbye to Pukki and look for more strikers. 

[paddycanary 545]

13 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Agree that we could do with more quality amongst our striking options. Hugill, Sargent and Idah all have pretty obvious weaknesses and I'm not sure any of us would be that confident if Pukki were to be injured for any length of time.

But I am staggered by how quick some people have been to write Pukki off. Quite happy to accept he hasn't been at his best in the opening three games, but show the guy some respect. We're so lucky to have him.

I would be very confident that Pukki will be a major contributor over the season. Which team in this division would he struggle to get into, if any? Perhaps a few weeks coming off the bench might freshen him up? 

Idah is probably the next option, perhaps in tandem with Pukki and then Sargent off the bench as a 'finisher.' (pun semi-intended!)

I really hope Idah can get a good run of fitness this season as I still think he could be very effective at this level, if not prolific. Josh gives the opposition something different to ponder; he drags players around, he makes space for others, he's direct, he's a threat from crosses (something we really need in the Champo), he works so hard and he can head a ball! Hugill is a decent 4th choice option for this division and I'm sure he'll chip in with some important goals & assists. 

Cantwell looks to be finding some form, Sinani might just surprise us, Dowell will contribute I'm sure, Nunez looks the part, Onel is a good option off the bench, Ramsey seems to have the knack of making those runs & getting into good positions, Rashica should on paper be a great option in this division (if he stays), Rowe will hopefully stake his claim when his chance comes - there are goals in this team if we can sort out central & defensive midfield. If Hayden delivers and if Sara finds his feet, backed up by Gibbs, McLean & Lungi, I believe we'll be there or thereabouts come April/May. 

Without trying to sound cocky or disrespectful, as we know better than most how much of a grind this division can be, there should be nothing to fear about this division once we settle into a rhythm. Amazing what one win can do for the mindset! 🙂 Bring on the Lions!

[Jim Smith 2,378]

1 hour ago, ged in the onion bag said:

I am with you 100% on all of that except the centre forward role.   For me we have three options, Pukki and carry on expecting improvements (possible), Idah or 2 up top!   Sargent and Hugill have done literally nothing to suggest they can contribute consistently.   Idah at least has potential provided he can get fit!

But in fairness that is pretty much the ony time I can recall where Sargent has played as a proper striker, rather than wide on the right. And his display last night did suggest that he can play that role effectively for us, in fact you could argue that his physical presence brought the attacking midfielders into the game in a way that Pukki is not always able to (thats not a criticism of Pukki).

Hugill I would agree with and am disappointed as in pre-season he looked good. I also think he looks fitter, faster and stronger than he did in previous seasons so am not writing him off yet. But his touch last night after he came on was not good enough which meant we struggled to hold the ball up effectively. For me, he concentrates too much on playing the man and not the ball. 

[Mason 47 1,538]

Bit of a bizarre take. For the first time since Pukki arrived at the club, someone else started a league game as the lone striker and actually looked capable. Srbeny, Rhodes, Hugill, Idah and Drmic have all had starts here or there and the odd goal but none really looked like they belonged.

Really interesting dynamic to watch now. Pukki has never had a positional challenge here, whilst Sargent might feel a place in the USA squad is on if he can find a few more goals before the break.

For now, it's focus on Milwall. I wouldn't see anyone dropped from last night, but I think we'll probably have this French chap in by then which frees McLean up to move back centrally (not that I think he should automatically do that, as Gibbs really made that position tick)

 

[ged in the onion bag 915]

1 minute ago, Jim Smith said:

But in fairness that is pretty much the ony time I can recall where Sargent has played as a proper striker, rather than wide on the right. And his display last night did suggest that he can play that role effectively for us, in fact you could argue that his physical presence brought the attacking midfielders into the game in a way that Pukki is not always able to (thats not a criticism of Pukki).

Hugill I would agree with and am disappointed as in pre-season he looked good. I also think he looks fitter, faster and stronger than he did in previous seasons so am not writing him off yet. But his touch last night after he came on was not good enough which meant we struggled to hold the ball up effectively. For me, he concentrates too much on playing the man and not the ball. 

That’s a fair point, can only go on what I’ve seen of Sargent quality and output wise and he’s not impressed sufficient to hold out much hope but it’s a funny game!    

[GodlyOtsemobor 2,634]

2 hours ago, Badger said:

You are not the bloke who called Canary Call last night are you? 😃

I'm actually not no, although I obviously very much agree with him 🤣

[The Bristol Nest 536]

How about we put Temmu in at 10 and keep Sargent at 9?

[Robert N. LiM 5,087]

24 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

In isolation, I would have no concerns that Pukki will get his form back. However, given that his agent publicly stated that he wanted a move, but the club was unlikely to allow it, you have to be concerned as to whether the reason for a drop of form comes down to having no enthusiasm as a result of feeling trapped. 

 

This is a very fair point. He certainly doesn't look happy. I know there's someone on here who attributes his body language to him being Finnish (!) but even if that's right, to me he looks more Finnish than normal. Hopefully we get to the end of the transfer window, he's still here and he can get used to the idea. Bit like Emi two years ago, temperamental differences notwithstanding.

[ged in the onion bag 915]

9 minutes ago, Robert N. LiM said:

This is a very fair point. He certainly doesn't look happy. I know there's someone on here who attributes his body language to him being Finnish (!) but even if that's right, to me he looks more Finnish than normal. Hopefully we get to the end of the transfer window, he's still here and he can get used to the idea. Bit like Emi two years ago, temperamental differences notwithstanding.

Didn’t we set the precedent with Emi though?   If they don’t want to be here then they can leave!    What’s fair for Emi must be fair for others…. What a rod for our backs we made there!     
 

If we didn’t keep making scouting errors / calamities, they might have more desire to be here!  

[norfolkngood 1,110]

17 minutes ago, The Bristol Nest said:

How about we put Temmu in at 10 and keep Sargent at 9?

why do we have to shoehorn Pukki in if the team is winning and Sarge is scoring ? 

i get that it is one game but it is our only win so we have to judge on it 

the players did well Sarge scored 

Pukki will get his chance when sarge loses form or stops scoring like any other should be judged on form 

the player who played and won last night should start next game as they are the in form players 

No player should be bigger than the team even Pukki 

[norfolkngood 1,110]

4 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Didn’t we set the precedent with Emi though?   If they don’t want to be here then they can leave!    What’s fair for Emi must be fair for others…. What a rod for our backs we made there!     
 

If we didn’t keep making scouting errors / calamities, they might have more desire to be here!  

Good Point well made 

 

[norfolkngood 1,110]

1 hour ago, Feedthewolf said:

I think Hanley and Omo is an outstanding partnership at this level. If we get promoted then we will need to upgrade, but I think Hanley is massively dependable and an excellent leader in the Championship.

And as for the Pukki debate, 25+ in the Championship and 10+ in the EPL every season for four years... what more do people want?! Give the guy some slack for crying out loud! Once he gets up to speed he will, as ever, be brilliant this season.

would you drop sarge and put him straight back in the team ? 

[Robert N. LiM 5,087]

15 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Didn’t we set the precedent with Emi though?   If they don’t want to be here then they can leave!    What’s fair for Emi must be fair for others…. What a rod for our backs we made there!     

Take the point, but I was talking about two years ago, post-relegation. Webber got a lot of (fair) criticism for letting Emi go last year, but perhaps not enough praise for keeping him the year before, when we went down. As Watford may be about to prove, not easy to keep your best players when you go down.

Actually, I wouldn't begrudge Teemu a move now (as long as we had a replacement lined up). He's been a great servant for us. If someone offers him top-flight or European football, who could blame him if he left? 

[Ward 3 406]

4 hours ago, Dean Coneys boots said:

I agree. Our current options are good enough for mid table but a promotion push requires two special strikers capable of getting the goals 

Pukki is. But ageing and suffering loss of form

sargent isn’t. Gets the odd goal but his first touch is appalling. 

idah is always about to be good or injured - I fear more likely to be the next Ryan Jarvis than the next Bellamy 

hugill is L2 standard with a good attitude 

 

 

sargent isn’t. Gets the odd goal but his first touch is appalling.

But he has time on his side. 

Puķki doesn't and need so many chances to score 

[norfolkngood 1,110]

1 minute ago, Robert N. LiM said:

Take the point, but I was talking about two years ago, post-relegation. Webber got a lot of (fair) criticism for letting Emi go last year, but perhaps not enough praise for keeping him the year before, when we went down. As Watford may be about to prove, not easy to keep your best players when you go down.

Actually, I wouldn't begrudge Teemu a move now (as long as we had a replacement lined up). He's been a great servant for us. If someone offers him top-flight or European football, who could blame him if he left? 

i think at his stage of Career Pukki i think would have liked to play for a club in a European cup ?

Maybe one last signing on fee for the pension fund ? 

 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

2 hours ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

And the opposition that the OP says 'offered nothing except what we gave them' with this formation and personnel, finished last championship season in 3rd place. 

It's just more evidence that the overall formation and philosophy is working, which is undermined by the odd individual error, but those errors are becoming less frequent as evidenced by the shift last night from losing to bottom end Championship teams to winning against a top-end championship team. 

I know you love Smith and are desperate to try and prove he is a good manager but that wasn’t a top end championship team we played last night, they have lost their best players from last season and also their manager.

Glad we got the win but let’s not be silly!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

41 minutes ago, ged in the onion bag said:

Didn’t we set the precedent with Emi though?   If they don’t want to be here then they can leave!    What’s fair for Emi must be fair for others…. What a rod for our backs we made there!     
 

If we didn’t keep making scouting errors / calamities, they might have more desire to be here!  

Not really. It just underlines we did the right thing by cashing in on Emi as soon as it was clear he didn't want to be here; Buendia is far more temperemental than Pukki. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

8 minutes ago, wheres my rebate gone? said:

I know you love Smith and are desperate to try and prove he is a good manager but that wasn’t a top end championship team we played last night, they have lost their best players from last season and also their manager.

Glad we got the win but let’s not be silly!

I'm definitely okay with Smith, and find the irrational hatred of him among some truly bizarre. 

There has been plenty of comments regarding teams we've lost to as ones that should be easily turned over based on performance in past seasons, so if you can't apply that rationale to Huddersfield then you can't apply it to anyone else either, since all Championship teams suffer from having their best players poached if they don't get promoted. 

Edited August 17, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

6 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

I'm definitely okay with Smith, and find the irrational hatred of him among some truly bizarre. 

There has been plenty of comments regarding teams we've lost to as ones that should be easily turned over based on performance in past seasons, so if you can't apply that rationale to Huddersfield then you can't apply it to anyone else either, since all Championship teams suffer from having their best players poached if they don't get promoted. 

Haha, Whatever best supports your view I suppose!

I can now see why you rate smith so highly if you think that Huddersfield team last night is a top championship side!

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

Just now, wheres my rebate gone? said:

Haha, Whatever best supports your view I suppose!

I can now see why you rate smith so highly if you think that Huddersfield team last night is a top championship side!

The same can be said for those of a more negative disposition. I can see why you lot are always so miserable if you think everybody should automatically be a walkover. 

[wheres my rebate gone? 85]

Just now, littleyellowbirdie said:

The same can be said for those of a more negative disposition. I can see why you lot are always so miserable if you think everybody should automatically be a walkover. 

I wouldn't say negative just not living in cloud cuckoo land like some!

Who's miserable? 

I do think our team should be beating who we've played so far as we have better players, but no team will be a walkover if we don't perform, which has been the case so far.

You obviously don't think we need to worry if we don't beat these sides as long as our XG looks good, I prefer wins and points but that's just me! 

[Monty13 2,494]

21 minutes ago, littleyellowbirdie said:

Not really. It just underlines we did the right thing by cashing in on Emi as soon as it was clear he didn't want to be here; Buendia is far more temperemental than Pukki. 

As opposed to the summer before when he didn’t want to be here when we didn’t cash in and he returned to the team to have his best ever season, was player of the season and probably the single biggest reason we were

How come it wasn’t the right thing to do to sell him then?

[littleyellowbirdie 2,876]

14 minutes ago, Monty13 said:

As opposed to the summer before when he didn’t want to be here when we didn’t cash in and he returned to the team to have his best ever season, was player of the season and probably the single biggest reason we were

How come it wasn’t the right thing to do to sell him then?

Because that's not actually how it was. Buendia's position on the first relegation was he wanted to be parted of being promoted again to rectify things. 

Buendia in January 2021 season: "It is true that there was a lot of talk in the summer, after relegation, about the possibility that both I and other teammates could leave the team to continue in the Premier League."However, I always had my head with the club. I belong to Norwich, I have to do things well for my team. Tomorrow we will see, but I never had my head outside the objectives, to work so that my club does well.As this season unfolds, we are doing well and I am very happy to be here. We are in a good position, I am feeling important, I am scoring goals and making assists for my teammates."

 

Those were Buendia's words in the Winter transfer window last Championship promotion campaign, in contrast to the club's statement on the sale of Buendia that they were given no option because Buendia had expressed a wish to leave, with no statement from Buendia himself to the contrary. The club made it very clear that, all else being equal, they didn't want Buendia to leave. 

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by littleyellowbirdie

[glory.win or die. 270]

Sargent caused them problems last night but he still looks a donkey with the ball at his feet.

He looks nervous and low on confidence, which is perhaps understandable, I'm sure a confident player would have shrugged off the red card challenge but he went down too easily I thought.

But he did look excellent with crosses into the box

[Yellow Fever 4,093]

As others have noted, if we play 1 up with Pukki we are simply very 1 dimensional, predictable, with little aerial threat. Frankly I think teams, especially EPL teams sussed that out seasons ago and worked out how to neuter it. Add to that I don't think Pukki is as sharp/clinical as he was.

That's why we scored so few goals and were relegated.

I rather miss the under-rated Holt figure who would be a threat under all conditions, goal mouth scramble, aerial cross, one on one or ball to feet and find a way to put the ball, and goalkeeper if necessary, into the net. 

Pukki is great when on-form but we need alternatives. Sargent took his chance. He starts against Millwall.